Confession ONLY to a Priest?

[Markie_Boy]

Not wanting to argue, please. I know He gave some authority to forgive sins, and heal as well. I don’t know why exactly He did this, but can speculate.

I do know He told us to ask God for forgiveness.

 

[JRKH]

Not wanting to argue, please. I know He gave some authority to forgive sins, and heal as well. I don’t know why exactly He did this, but can speculate.

I do know He told us to ask God for forgiveness.

Amen - There is much to try to understand.

Often times we can try to isolate things too much and this leads to confusion.
Yes we are to ask God for forgiveness. We are to pray to God directly. We are also to pray for others and to ask others to pray for us. Likewise we are to ask others to forgive us and we are to readily and willingly forgive them.
All of these things intertwine…

So - what of formal confession to the priest?

Contained in the formal act of confession - not simply the brief episode in the confessional - but the wider act of counseling - is the ability to learn, to grow, to discipline ones self, to gain and to grow in holiness.

Once you’ve been around the boards for a bit you will note the great number of threads asking “is this a sin?”. People are not sure of some thought or act - done in this or that circumstance. Most often we try to advise them to speak with their confessor. Why? Because their confessor knows them and their life circumstance better than we do.
Because the confessor has had the training to help the person work though issues and to enable them to grow in holiness.

In the secular world those in the mental health field try to serve a very similar purpose. That of advising - of saying “this is ok and that is not ok” - and helping people work through issues. But in order for such activity to be fruitful, the person must be willing to come and share with another their deepest thoughts and issues. This in itself takes courage and is cathartic.
The very same thing is true in Confession…the very act of going and verbalizing to another person takes courage - and is cathartic.

Isn’t amazing that Jesus gave us this very same thing 2000 years ago?

As others have pointed out, Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins. In order for them to do so - they need to know what those sins are. Confession as we know it today has evolved from that simple premise.

These things take time to understand. So be patient with yourself. Just try to recognize that God and the Church have given us this sacrament in this way for our own good and not as some sort of pointless or redundant activity.

thanks for the great questions.

Peace
James

 

[cguerber]

There were 2 other disciples in the room at some time that evening.
Not exactly hard “proof.”

And it doesn’t say that Jesus breathed on everyone in the room.

There were the 2 that Jesus met on the road to Emmaus. Then they went to Jerusalem “where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them”. So we don’t know exactly how many people were there.

As far as it ‘doesn’t’ say Jesus breathed on everyone in the room. Well, we could create whatever we want the bible to say if we go the way of what the bible ‘doesn’t’ say. Rather than try to explain theology by what something doesn’t say, we need to have faith in what the bible ‘does’ say.

 

[JRKH]

There were the 2 that Jesus met on the road to Emmaus. Then they went to Jerusalem “where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them”. So we don’t know exactly how many people were there.

As far as it ‘doesn’t’ say Jesus breathed on everyone in the room. Well, we could create whatever we want the bible to say if we go the way of what the bible ‘doesn’t’ say. Rather than try to explain theology by what something doesn’t say, we need to have faith in what the bible ‘does’ say.

Good point - and this is why we must rely, not simply on the pages of the bible, but on the Traditions and the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Jesus was very wise indeed to entrust the authority to bind and loose in His living Church rather than simply in the written word.

Peace
James

 

[Markie_Boy]

Hey James - thank you for the great answer, and patience.

I do appreciate the protestant teaching I have learned from. Often there is much skepticism about catholics there as well.

The care for another in your answer shows the “Love your neighbor as yourself”, and to me that steam rolls arguments over interpretation of doctrine details.

It’s the good fruit showing the tree it comes from is good.

One rule I am learing to follow is that the truth is generally simple, and the more complicated things get, the more carefully you need to look at it. Jesus often broke things down as simple as he could for people with parables, or when asked about the commandments he summed up all ten in to two.

 

[Gorgias]

There were the 2 that Jesus met on the road to Emmaus. Then they went to Jerusalem “where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them”. So we don’t know exactly how many people were there.

This is certainly true. Yet, it says there that they found the eleven in the upper room. In the passage in John that you want to conflate with that appearance, it’s clear that the eleven weren’t in the room – Thomas was missing. So, if you want to say that these are the same event (so that you might be able to claim that (at least) the two from Emmaus were also there), you’d have to be able to explain why there were eleven apostles there in the account in Luke and only ten in the account in John.

As far as it ‘doesn’t’ say Jesus breathed on everyone in the room. Well, we could create whatever we want the bible to say if we go the way of what the bible ‘doesn’t’ say. Rather than try to explain theology by what something doesn’t say, we need to have faith in what the bible ‘does’ say.

Agreed; and, in the case of the account in John, in which the proxy of the power to forgive sins is given, we see to whom it is given: ‘the disciples’, which is the phrase that John uses to describe the twelve apostles.

 

[JRKH]

Hey James - thank you for the great answer, and patience.

I do appreciate the protestant teaching I have learned from. Often there is much skepticism about catholics there as well.

The care for another in your answer shows the “Love your neighbor as yourself”, and to me that steam rolls arguments over interpretation of doctrine details.

It’s the good fruit showing the tree it comes from is good.

One rule I am learing to follow is that the truth is generally simple, and the more complicated things get, the more carefully you need to look at it. Jesus often broke things down as simple as he could for people with parables, or when asked about the commandments he summed up all ten in to two.

Thank you for you kind words. If I offer anything worthwhile - it is not of me but the Spirit working through me.

I wholeheartedly agree that things need to be broken down to the simplest components. In amt 22:36-40, Jesus reduces the entire Old Covenant - the Law and the Prophets down to just two commands. Love God above all and Love neighbor as yourself. The common ingredient in these is love - Agape to be exact.

Unfortunately - while simple in theory - things can get complicated pretty quick.
I chalk this up to what I call the “Yea but what if…” theorem. It basically says that no matter how clearly and simply something is stated, someone will always ask, “Yea but what if…”
Answers to these questions are useful but tend to lead to greater complication and, unfortunately, less clarity.

The Church, having dealt with these “Yea but…” questions for 2000 years, has volumes of answers. Protestants look at this today (not recognizing how it came about) and what they see looks overly complex and unnecessary.
Yet - if one does as you are doing and asking simple questions about how such things came about - one can quickly come to realize how the apparent complexity is actually built very carefully upon the simplicity of the two great commandments.

All that said - - I’m with you and like to keep my faith very simple. I figure just trying to “Love” everyone and every day is more than enough to keep me busy…

Peace
James

 

[ignatius777]

Not wanting to argue, please. I know He gave some authority to forgive sins, and heal as well. I don’t know why exactly He did this, but can speculate.

I do know He told us to ask God for forgiveness.

He did it because he wanted us to experience of grace of forgiveness and healing.

It is God that grants forgiveness not the priest.

 

[cguerber]

This is certainly true. Yet, it says there that they found the eleven in the upper room. In the passage in John that you want to conflate with that appearance, it’s clear that the eleven weren’t in the room – Thomas was missing. So, if you want to say that these are the same event (so that you might be able to claim that (at least) the two from Emmaus were also there), you’d have to be able to explain why there were eleven apostles there in the account in Luke and only ten in the account in John.

Agreed; and, in the case of the account in John, in which the proxy of the power to forgive sins is given, we see to whom it is given: ‘the disciples’, which is the phrase that John uses to describe the twelve apostles.

You may want to ask those that wrote the commentary for the NAB, because they also state it’s the same event.

 

[ahs]

You may want to ask those that wrote the commentary for the NAB, because they also state it’s the same event.

I doubt that the authors of the footnotes were infallible, and therefore they could be wrong. But let’s explore the logical conclusion of your point:

-Since others may have been in the room, that means that the authority to forgive/withold forgiveness of one’s sins is given to all men, not just the Apostles, is that your understanding?

-If so, then you and I have the authority to retain people’s sins…to hold them bound to the guilt of their sins. Is that right? (And please elaborate, remembering to provide Scriptural proof for all assertions, such as "that all ended with the death of the Apostels, etc…)

ETA: By the way, I’ve been searching through BibleGateWay through the various translations, and looking through my own 3 different Bibles, and I am not seeing any footnote that tries to link up those 2 accounts. Just sayin’…
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020&version=KJV

 

[cguerber]

Agreed; and, in the case of the account in John, in which the proxy of the power to forgive sins is given, we see to whom it is given: ‘the disciples’, which is the phrase that John uses to describe the twelve apostles.

Excuse me for not knowing how to properly put a previous quote in this post (I’m still learning), but the above was stated earlier and I would like to comment.

You are correct. John uses the word disciples to describe the apostles but also uses it to describe others that were following him. John 4:1, John 6:66, John 8:31, John 9:27.

 

[ahs]

Excuse me for not knowing how to properly put a previous quote in this post (I’m still learning), but the above was stated earlier and I would like to comment.

You can either hit the “Quote” button, or you can add the command yourself (which helps in breaking up a post into parts that you wish to address separately).

I will put a “.” within this example so that the command won’t simply put this in a quote box, so it will look like the following except don’t use a “.” within:

yada yada yada, yippidy yappidy yike!

 

[cguerber]

You can either hit the “Quote” button, or you can add the command yourself (which helps in breaking up a post into parts that you wish to address separately).

I will put a “.” within this example so that the command won’t simply put this in a quote box, so it will look like the following except don’t use a “.” within:

yada yada yada, yippidy yappidy yike!

Thanks!

 

[Randy_Carson]

When asked how to pray (to God), Jesus gave us the Lord’s Prayer. In that He tells us to pray “Forgive us our trespasses…”.

This tells me he is directing us to ask God for forgiveness.

The Biblical Basis for Confession of Sins to a Priest

On the evening of the Resurrection, Jesus appeared in the midst of the apostles and said to them:

“As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” (John 20:21-23)

Jesus says, “As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.” Elsewhere in the gospels, Jesus tells the apostles that the Father has sent him into the world with “all authority”. In like manner, Jesus commissions them with the authority He has been given – authority the apostles will need to carry out the mission He has entrusted them with.

Notice that Jesus prefaces his remarks about forgiveness by saying, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Fr. Dowling rightly notes here that the capacity to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us is a far greater thing than the ability to forgive sins. If the former is possible, the latter does not seem impossible.

Unless we assume that Jesus has also given the apostles the ability to read minds, this passage presupposes that there is a hearing of the sins in order for a judgment to be made as to whether the sins should be forgiven or retained, depending on whether or not the person is truly sorry for his or her sins. Without sorrow for sins, there can be no forgiveness; even God cannot forgive an unrepentant sinner or hardened heart. In saying “if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven”, Jesus precludes the possible argument that He was merely giving the apostles the authority to preach the message of forgiveness. Clearly, the apostles were to judge and forgive or retain the sins of men.

Matthew’s Gospel provides another important passage revealing God’s intention for the power Jesus shares with His Church:

“Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!” Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” And the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.” (Matthew 9:2-8)

The central focus of this story is not the healing of the paralyzed man but the revelation of the authority of Jesus. Why does this passage indicate that this authority has been passed on to the Church? Verse eight says, “When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.” Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Matthew records correctly that the authority to forgive sins had been given not to a single man, Jesus, but to men. We can know this because he is not quoting the comments of the crowd in this verse but ascribing to them the proper reason for why they were filled with awe. Additionally, we know that Matthew wrote this passage some 15-20 years after the event described thus giving us the assurance that he had plenty of time to reflect upon the truth of what he has just written and had seen the forgiveness of sins through confession in actual practice in the early Church. If this were not the case, then Matthew would not have written as he did.

Paul also talks about the ministry of forgiveness that has been passed on from Jesus. In his second letter to the church in Corinth we read:

“All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.” (2 Corinthians 5:18-20)

Here Paul speaks of both the message and the ministry of reconciliation. Forgiveness of sins is proclaimed as part of the good news; actual reconciliation through confession and absolution is administered through the sacrament. In this way, the Church completes the mission of Jesus by preaching, by baptizing, and by forgiving sins.

Note, too, the use of the pronouns “we”, “us”, and “you” in this passage. When speaking strictly of the ministry of reconciliation, Paul says that God “gave us the ministry of reconciliation” and that “we are therefore Christ’s ambassadors as though God were making his appeal through us.” Then, he says “We implore you” to be reconciled. Clearly, there are two groups: those who have the ministry of reconciliation and those to whom he is speaking of being reconciled. The “you” – his audience – to whom he is speaking does not share in that ministry. Therefore, we can understand that some have the responsibility to reconcile men to God and some do not. This ministry is consistent with the function of the priesthood. For example, consider the following passage from the Gospel of Matthew:

(cont.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

“When he came down from the mountainside, large crowds followed him. A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately he was cured of his leprosy. Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don’t tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.” (Matthew 8:1-4)

In this passage, we see that Jesus healed the man of leprosy, but He still directs the man to show himself to the priest at the temple and to offer the sacrifice commanded by the law. Why? First, in doing so, the man’s cure gave testimony about Jesus because the miracle performed was a sign of Christ’s divine nature. Second, the priest confirmed the healing and reconciled the man to society which he was then allowed to re-enter.

Confession to a priest is very similar to this. As Patrick Madrid notes in his book, Does the Bible Really Say That?, “No [one] can make a good sacramental confession without first confessing directly to God. Only then can one properly receive the sacrament of confession, receiving sacramental absolution from the priest, who ministers in persona Christi (in the person of Christ).” This refers back to the ministry of reconciliation Paul described above. Once the penitent has confessed his sin to God, shown himself to be truly contrite and received absolution (offering the sacrifice or penance prescribed by the priest), he is reconciled to both God and the Body of Christ and, in the case of grave matter, allowed to re-enter the sacramental life of the Church.

Paul also wrote:

2 Corinthians 2:10 (KJV)
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

2 Corinthians 2:10 (Douay Rheims)
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.

Clearly, the Apostle Paul himself forgave the sins of others acting in persona Christi or “in the person of Christ” – just as the Catholic Church teaches concerning the sacrament of reconciliation.

Can we go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins? Of course, but the scriptures just presented suggest that the normative means of forgiveness is by confession to a priest, and while it is true that only God can forgive sins, the Bible teaches that He has chosen to do so through the ordained priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted. We see this in the Letter of James (which Martin Luther called an “epistle of straw”):

“Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed.” (James 5:14-16)

“Presbyter” is the word from which we get our English word “priest”. It means “elder”. James encourages us to call a priest to pray and anoint someone who is ill – a passage from which we get the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick. The prayer of this righteous man will not only heal the sick, but will forgive any sins that they may have committed. This passage confirms the ministry of forgiveness of sins which the Church carries out in Christ’s name.

 

[Gorgias]

You may want to ask those that wrote the commentary for the NAB, because they also state it’s the same event.

No, actually they don’t. You’re talking about the footnotes to the NAB? Or are you talking about some other commentary?

The footnote for John 20:19 says:

[20:19–29] The appearances to the disciples, without or with Thomas (cf. Jn 11:16; 14:5), have rough parallels in the other gospels only for Jn 20:19–23; cf. Lk 24:36–39; Mk 16:14–18.

The footnote for Luke 24:36 says:

The Gospel of Luke, like each of the other gospels (Mt 28:16–20; Mk 16:14–15; Jn 20:19–23), focuses on an important appearance of Jesus to the Twelve in which they are commissioned for their future ministry. As in Lk 24:6, 12, so in Lk 24:36, 40 there are omissions in the Western text.

So, in the footnote to John, we see that there is no assertion that this is the same event, but only that there are “rough parallels in other gospels”, and in the footnote to Luke, we see that it explicitly identifies “the Twelve” as those who “are commissioned for future ministry.”

Perhaps there’s some other reference that you’re thinking about, and would like to share with us? 'Cause what you seem to be claiming… just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny!