confession question

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Athanasius

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First, I should state that I am scrupulous, and how I am describing my problem is by describing the “worst case scenario”, just to be on the safe side. I try to do that, just in case. Anyway, I have some questions about past confessions…

How I used to approach confession was this way: in between confessions, if I happened to remember a mortal sin from way back in my past that I had forgotten to confess (or one I had confessed but forgotten to confess relevant details), I would write it down on a piece of paper, and “file it away” for the next time I went to confession. So that when I started to prepare for confession, I would just go to my “files” of sins I had written down, and prepare my confession that way, and not even do an examination of conscience for anything in my “past”;

I would only do an examination of conscience for everything since my previous confession.

However, I was thinking today, and I’m afraid that there may have been times in the past when I was doing this process, that whenever I remembered sins from my past like I described as above, I may have deceived myself into thinking they were not mortal sins, so I didn’t have to confess them, when in fact they were mortal. I rationalized them away. So in fact I never recorded these sins in my “files” to be retrieved later when preparing for confession.

Then later on, when I started to prepare to go to confession (whether that was days or weeks or months later, or however short or long of a time it was), when I was going to prepare the list of sins to confess from the past, I wouldn’t even bother doing an examination of conscience for the “past”, and just do it for stuff since my last confession. For the “past”, I would just go to my “files”, assuming I had everything there I needed. When I went to confession, I was doing it in good faith. I tried to make good confessions. But due to the fact that I had previously never recorded those sins described above, because I rationalized them away as not being mortal, and because when actually preparing for confession, I honestly wasn’t thinking it necessary to examine my conscience for anything in the past, and only doing it for stuff since my last confession, when I did go to confession, I ended up never confessing those sins, though later on I did. (Again, when I went to confession itself, it was in good faith, and I did try to make a valid confession.).

Similarly, there were many times in the past where the scenario would be this way: where between one confession and the next, I might have committed mortal sin, and rationalized it away, thus not recording it so as to make sure to confess it at my next confession. Then when I actually got ready to go to confession, even after doing an examination of conscience, I would think I had already "covered’ all those particular sins, and since before I had decided they were not sins, I would not bother mentioning them (honestly not remembering that I had rationalized them away when reviewing them before, and that I really should have confessed them). So again, I went to confession in good faith, and tried to make a good confession, but ended up not confessing certain sins for reasons mentioned above.

There may have even been times where in preparing for confession and making a list, I might have engaged in rationalizing certain sins away, thus not including them on the list. But by the time I actually went into the confessional (which could have half an hour up to a few days later), I did try to make a good confession, and just automatically trusted that my list included everything on it I needed to confess, and so just read the list without really paying attention (due to my general nervousness when going to confession).

Now, I should point out that in the above scenarios, it is also possible that I did not in fact rationalize anything away. It might have been that when above I was “rationalizing” away mortal sins, in reality I honestly thought I had not committed mortal sin (and perhaps I wasn’t). In fact, I think that is quite possibly the case. (Especially I think it likely I did not “rationalize” anything away right before my preparation for confession, just a half hour away, though now I am worried, probably unnecessary).

It might be simply my present scrupulosity making me assume the worst about what I did in the past. (In any case, I have since confessed all of those sins in subsequent confessions, just to be on the safe side).

(continued in another post)
 
(continued from previous post)

But, for my own peace of mind, let’s assume the worst-case scenario, and everything is described as above. Even in the worst-case scenario, would my confessions in the above scenarios have been valid, since when I was in the confessional itself, I did try to make a good confession (even though, as I stated, I kind of mechanicaly read my list of sins without really paying attention to what was written, due to my nervousness and just wishing to get it read). When actually in the confessional, I did will to make a good confession, no matter what might have happened beforehand. Were my confessions valid?

Like I said, I think it likely to be my own present scrupulosity making me assume the worst about my past confessions, but if I knew that even in the worst-case scenario above I had valid confessions, I would feel a lot better and not need to worry whatsoever.

Also, one other question: in the past when doing confessions (including those described above), whenever I did do an examination of conscience for all since between my previous confession and the one I actually was going to do (even if that covered a period of several months), I’m afraid my examination of conscience was not very good. I did do an examination of conscience, and I tried to remember if there were any possible mortal sins that popped into my mind. But I only did it for like a minute or two (if even that long). There were always some sins I wasn’t sure about, usually the same sins over and over (which I would always confess just in case, but I think were probably just due to my scrupulosity). But except for those, I would automatically “assume” that if I had in fact committed what I knew to be a mortal sin, I would have already went to confession as soon as possible afterwards, so I didn’t figure there was anything I had to worry about, and I was only doing it “just in case”.

When doing those examinations of conscience, I wasn’t counting on the fact that I could have rationalized mortal sins away after committing them (though, like I said above, it is quite possible I never did that anyway, and that it is just my present scrupulosity making me worry).

Anyway, that being the case, I had a very brief examination of conscience. It might have even sometimes been less than a minute; I never went through a list of possible sins or the Ten commandments for help in discerning. I only tried to see if there was anything that might have possibly pop up in my memory, though I wasn’t expecting it. Like I said, I was assuming that if I knew I had committed a mortal sin, I would have automatically have went to confession before that time, almost as soon as possible (never dreaming I would rationalize it away, though it is also possible I never did rationalize it away anyway, just my scrupuloity making me worry). In any case, like I said, I did do an examination of conscience, but not that long, or with any helps like a list of sins or going through the Ten Commandments, but just a quick glance seeing if anything would pop up in my mind (sometimes less than a minute), figuring I would do that “just in case”.

I did it in good conscience, thinking that was good enough (for the reasons described above). And so when I went to confession, I did try to make good confessions.​

Like I said before, I think there is a good chance it might simply be my scrupulosity bothering me, and that everything was not as bad as described in the above posts (perhaps even likely that is the case). But, for my own peace of mind, even if everything described in these posts were as bad as I feared, would my confessions be valid? Since at the time of the confessions themselves, I certainly tried to make a good confession (no matter what had gone on before).

I apologize for the length of these posts, but I feel like I’m going insane…this has been tormenting me all day…and I don’t feel as if I can trust to talk to my priest about this. In any case, I would certainly appreciate any prayers. Thanks.
 
Good evening!

Tonight, try to take a moment to thank God that He has given you the desire to confess yourself frequently and that you have responded by doing just that.

What a great, unspeakable gift is the sacrament of confession!

I wish that I could give you some quick, “canonical” answers to your important questions, but I am no expert- just an ordinary sinner who also practices frequent confession- by the Grace of God.

I would, however, recommend a great book on the sacrament that has really been life changing for me. (Maybe you have already read it.) It is called: Frequent Confession: Its Place in the Spiritual Life. It is written by Dom Benedict Baur, O.S.B.

Athanasius, you are obviously on the right path. I pray that there is a soul out there who can give you the response you need. In the meantime, I will pray that you will be consoled by the love of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.

God Love You!
 
Ten Commandments
for the Scrupulous

Rev. Thomas M. Santa, C.SS.R.
  1. You shall not repeat a sin in confession when it has been confessed in a previous confession, even when there is a doubt that it was confessed or a doubt that it was confessed in a sufficiently adequate and complete way.
Almost every scrupulous person experiences anxiety and doubt about past sins. Older people have a natural tendency to reflect back on their younger years, and in doing so, often remember something that triggers a doubt. More often than not, such a doubt has to do with impure thoughts, desires, or actions. As a result of the combination of remembering and doubting, it is not unusual that the scrupulous person then experiences great anxiety and is robbed of a sense of peace. This is why this first commandment is so very important: Do not go back over past sins and do not repeat the confession of them! Such an exercise is not at all helpful and must be resisted.
  1. You shall not confess doubtful sins in confession, but only sins that are clear and certain.
Of all of the correspondence that I receive, I would say that this issue is the one that occurs most often. “What does a person do if they are not sure that they committed a sin?” For this reason, this is a very important commandment to remember because it clearly states the truth: Doubtful sins don’t count! There is no need to confess something that does not clearly and certainly exist. In fact, it is harmful to one’s self to confess that which is doubtful. Again, such a practice is not at all helpful and must be resisted.
  1. You shall not repeat your penance after confession or any of the words of your penance because you feel or think that you had distractions or may not have said the words properly.
  2. You shall not worry about breaking your fast before receiving communion, unless you actually put food and drink in your mouth and swallow it in the same way that a person does when eating a meal.
  3. You shall not hesitate to look at any crucifix or at any statue in church or at home or anywhere else because you may get bad thoughts in your mind and imagination. If such thoughts occur, they carry no sin whatever.
  4. You shall not consider yourself guilty of bad thoughts, desires, or feelings, unless you can honestly swear before the all-truthful God that you remember clearly and certainly consenting to them.
Because we simply do not have absolute control over our interior faculties, the emphasis of the commandment is on clear and certain consent. Only a free consent, that is clear and certain, constitutes a sin. You can not accidentally or involuntarily be guilty of sin.
  1. You shall not disobey your confessor when he tells you never to make another general confession of past sins already confessed.
  2. You shall believe and act accordingly, so that whenever you are in doubt as to whether or not you are obliged to do or not to do something, you can take it for certain that you are not obligated.
This commandment underlines the basic moral principle that doubtful laws or obligations do not bind the scrupulous conscience. The great saint, and our patron, Saint Alphonsus Liguori teaches: “When there exists in a scrupulous person the habitual will not to offend God, it is certain that he or she acts in doubt and there is no sin…”
  1. If, before you perform or omit an act, you are doubtful whether or not it is sinful for you, you shall assume as certain that it is not sinful and shall proceed to act without any dread of sin whatever.
This commandment is also supported by Saint Alphonsus. In his advice to confessors he says, “Scrupulous persons tend to fear that everything they do is sinful. The confessor should command them to act without restraint and overcome their anxiety. He should tell them that their first obligation is to conquer their scruples. They should act against their groundless fears. The confessor may command the scrupulous to conquer their anxiety and disregard it by freely doing whatever it tells them not to do. The confessor may assure the penitent the he or she need never confess such a thing.”
  1. You shall put your total trust in Jesus Christ, knowing that he loves you as only God can love, and that he will never allow you to lose your soul.
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Is act of contrition required during the confession before absolution or is it optional, depending on the confessor? Thanks!
 
How I used to approach confession was this way: in between confessions, if I happened to remember a mortal sin from way back in my past that I had forgotten to confess (or one I had confessed but forgotten to confess relevant details), I would write it down on a piece of paper, and “file it away” for the next time I went to confession.
If you are still currently doing this I would highly suggest that you stop. This is unnecessary and unhealthy because of your scrupulosity. As a spiritual director if a directee came to me with this same problem and process I would require them to stop it under obedience.
I would only do an examination of conscience for everything since my previous confession.
Good but make it quick. For a person in your state I would recommend that you make your examination of conscience when you are actually in the confessional line. If it takes longer than that you are being too scrupulous.
However, I was thinking today, and I’m afraid that there may have been times in the past when I was doing this process, that whenever I remembered sins from my past like I described as above, I may have deceived myself into thinking they were not mortal sins, so I didn’t have to confess them, when in fact they were mortal. I rationalized them away. So in fact I never recorded these sins in my “files” to be retrieved later when preparing for confession.
Next time you are in confession tell the confessor this, “I struggle with scrupulosity and I feel I have unconfessed mortal sins on my conscience but I don’t want to fall into further scrupulosity so I would like to make a general confession that I may have unconfessed mortal sins on my conscience and I am truly sorry for them.” Then put it out of your mind.
Similarly, there were many times in the past where the scenario would be this way: where between one confession and the next, I might have committed mortal sin, and rationalized it away, thus not recording it so as to make sure to confess it at my next confession.
See above
But, for my own peace of mind, let’s assume the worst-case scenario, and everything is described as above. Even in the worst-case scenario, would my confessions in the above scenarios have been valid, since when I was in the confessional itself, I did try to make a good confession (even though, as I stated, I kind of mechanicaly read my list of sins without really paying attention to what was written, due to my nervousness and just wishing to get it read). When actually in the confessional, I did will to make a good confession, no matter what might have happened beforehand. Were my confessions valid?
No, let us not not consider the worst case scenario. It is considering the worst case scenario that is causing you to not have peace of mind. Rather, you need to take a breath calm down. Look at Our Crucified Lord and ask yourself if you are a greater sinner than He is a savior. If you follow my above suggestions it will help you with your scrupulosity which is the root of this whole problem.
I’m afraid my examination of conscience was not very good.
Follow my advice and do your Examination of Conscience while in line and not before. Do not spend more than two minutes on each commandment and precept of the Church. If you are spending more than two minutes on each you are taking too long.
Is act of contrition required during the confession before absolution or is it optional, depending on the confessor? Thanks!
It is not required strictly for absolution to be valid but it is required for it to be licit. However, you yourself must be contrite.
 
Thank-you for your replies!
Follow my advice and do your Examination of Conscience while in line and not before. Do not spend more than two minutes on each commandment and precept of the Church. If you are spending more than two minutes on each you are taking too long.
The problem is many times in the past before when I did it, after spending a period of time writing down the sins from my past I felt I needed to confess (which could take a while), I spent two minutes (or even less) for the rest of the entire examination of conscience (covering the entire period since my previous confession that is, even if it were for a period of up to several months).

For that matter, I am worried that perhaps some times, except for the “usual” sins that always concerned me and that I felt I needed to confess “just in case” , I might not even have bothered doing an examination of conscience at all for sins since my previous confession perhaps. Like I wrote above, since I figured if I had commited what I knew to be a mortal sin, I would have “automatically” went to confession as soon as possible (not imaginaing that I had “rationalized” any away; and again, it is quite possible I never did rationalize away, and it is just my present scrupulosity bothering me), I didn’t see the need. Therefore, sometimes it is possible I might not have even bothered with an examination of conscience (other than the “usual” sins that bothered me) figuring it unnecessary.

Like I said, I honestly thought at the time that was good enough,and I did it in good conscience (even though it seems silly to me today).

My question is: were all of my confessions in the past (both the ones I described in this post and all of the other posts in this thread) valid, even in the worst-case scenarios I describ above, since at least when I was in the confessional itself itself I willed to make a good confession (despite what went on before)? If I knew they were, that would be a great relief off of my mind. (Even though I do wish to try to get a better understanding of how to approach confession, since because of my scrupulosity, I’m so concerned of making a bad confession, I do not go nearly as often as I should, which I would like to change.)

Also, does anyone know if there is a guide for confession for scrupulous people? I do have the book Understanding Scrupulosity, but I have so many other questions…Thanks.
 
Just needing to bump this…

If someone could please read through all of my posts in this thread (a lot of reading, I know), I would greatly appreciate it.

I simply wish to make sure that, even assuming I woke up tomorrow and found out, and become absoutely sure, that every worst-case scenario I described in every one of my posts in this thread is what actually occured, still, all my those confessions were valid. If I could know this, and that it is simply my scrupulosity getting to me, it would make me feel a lot better. Thanks.
 
You do sound very worked up over something that is very simple.

You are obligated to confess mortal sins only. Now most people don’t need to do too much examination at all to be aware of their mortal sins. Firstly most of us don’t commit truckloads of them, and I’m sure you don’t either. Secondly the ones we do are usually seared into our memories anyway.

You, being the scrupulous type, would be the least likely of all types of people to have the problem of forgetting any sin, mortal or venial. Your problem lies in the other direction - thinking you’ve sinned when you haven’t.

So no, don’t worry if your examinations of conscience aren’t lengthy. As with many things, over time people’s examinations of conscience become quicker because they’re more familiar with themselves, and learn fairly well which are their habitual areas of weakness and which they rarely or never have problems with.
 
The problem is many times in the past before when I did it, after spending a period of time writing down the sins from my past I felt I needed to confess (which could take a while), I spent two minutes (or even less) for the rest of the entire examination of conscience (covering the entire period since my previous confession that is, even if it were for a period of up to several months).
That is fine just don’t write down your sins. You don’t need to keep track of them in that manner. While you are in the confession line just take that time to go through in your mind the ten commandments and the precepts of the Church and reflect since your last confession about things that come to mind. When you are done pull out your rosary and start praying it to keep your mind occupied so you don’t drift back to “stressing” over your sins. When you get into the confessional rely on the Holy Spirit to remind you of those things that that you reflected on while in line. If your confession takes longer than five minutes you are taking too long. A good confession that does not involve formal Spiritual Direction should only take should take between 2 and 5 minutes. This includes the council of the priest and the liturgical form.
I might not even have bothered doing an examination of conscience at all for sins since my previous confession
Don’t worry, the use of the examination of conscience is only a help and is not necessary. A friend of mine has been directed to not use them at all because of his scrupulosity. This advice may be timly for you.
Like I said, I honestly thought at the time that was good enough,and I did it in good conscience (even though it seems silly to me today).
No, that is fine. Strictly speaking you don’t need a formal examination of conscience. In fact the well formed conscience over time needs a formal examination (like we are speaking of) less and less because it is clear and you can see the sins clearly without investigating ones own conscience.
My question is: were all of my confessions in the past (both the ones I described in this post and all of the other posts in this thread) valid
Yes, of course they are valid. Don’t worry so much. As long as you have sorrow for your sins, you do the penance and the priest follows the essential form then it is valid.

God is not waiting over you with a hammer to bash you on the head. He understands your plight so put some trust in Him.
 
Thank-you for your replies!

Just to make sure: absolutely no matter what I may have done in the past in “preparing” for confessions such as I described in my posts above (and any rationalizing and self-deception I may have commited in any form between confessions), would it be safe to say that as long as when in the confessional itself I tried to make a good confession (even if simply mechanically reading off the paper due to my nervousness), then the confession would be valid?

I guess I’m scared because during the above mentioned rationalizations between confessions, I would have known I would be simply mechanically reading off the paper due to my nervousness, as well as not doing a real thorough examination of conscience. Combine that with the fact that if while going to confession, I did remember the sins, I would have not remembered the rationalizations, and would truly think that I did not need to worry about confessing them, since I would think to myself “I already examined those in the past, and decided I did not need to worry about confessing them.”, again, not remembering that I engaged in rationalization)…

However, be that as it may, when I was in the confessional itself, I truly did try to make a good confession, even if it was simply a “mechanical” reading due to nervousness. So I guess those confessions would still be valid, right?
 
You may just have to accept the fact that you are in God’s good graces!🙂

BE HAPPY. IT’S CAUSE TO CELEBRATE!

GOD LOVES YOU. HE WANTS TO SAVE YOU. EVEN MORE THAN YOU WANT TO BE SAVED.
 
Thank-you for your replies!

Just to make sure: absolutely no matter what I may have done in the past in “preparing” for confessions such as I described in my posts above (and any rationalizing and self-deception I may have commited in any form between confessions), would it be safe to say that as long as when in the confessional itself I tried to make a good confession (even if simply mechanically reading off the paper due to my nervousness), then the confession would be valid?

I guess I’m scared because during the above mentioned rationalizations between confessions, I would have known I would be simply mechanically reading off the paper due to my nervousness, as well as not doing a real thorough examination of conscience. Combine that with the fact that if while going to confession, I did remember the sins, I would have not remembered the rationalizations, and would truly think that I did not need to worry about confessing them, since I would think to myself “I already examined those in the past, and decided I did not need to worry about confessing them.”, again, not remembering that I engaged in rationalization)…

However, be that as it may, when I was in the confessional itself, I truly did try to make a good confession, even if it was simply a “mechanical” reading due to nervousness. So I guess those confessions would still be valid, right?
You’ve got it! - now take a deep breath and relax. And most importantly stop asking questions here! Go to your priest, go to the same one each time, listen to what he says and follow it to the letter - no more, no less, no second guessing. If he leads you wrong that will be his fault and his sin, not yours.
 
Athanasius,

Here is a copy of the answer I wrote to you in the moral theology section:

You are now making a fresh start - because your confessor has told you to do so in the Person of Christ. So, ultimately, Christ has told you to do so!

A fresh start means:

The scrupulous thoughts must be banished from your mind like any temptation, so don’t even think about it any more, ever.

Don’t think any more about ANY of these scrupulous things you have asked about (none, not one, not one tiny detail or fact or anything). Do not think of any more questions. Do not think about it at all any more - I have been through it myself - don’t even just think over this or that little thing - BANISH IT from your mind the instant it appears and have recourse to God or Our Lady in prayer.

(Sorry for being abrupt:) ; I’m speaking from hard personal experience, and I don’t mean to be rude to you.)

The instant any thought about these things from the past comes into your mind, baninsh it and fill your mind with prayer. And call to mind your belief that through the power of His Grace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, God has forgiven EVERYTHING FROM YOUR PAST and He has CAST IT ALL BEHIND HIS BACK and REMOVED IT FROM YOU as far as the East is from the West.

So now, through Confession, you now know - as surely as anyone could ever know anything - that you are at peace with God, it is as though those things never happened (and that’s how God sees it now), and none of those things from the past - not one single thing - ever need to be thought about ever again.

God has worked through your confessor, regardless of how orthodox he may or may not be - in the sacraments it is Jesus Christ who works, through his frail instruments. So you must never mention any of those things to any priest or anyone, anywhere, ever.

God loves you. He has forgiven EVERYTHING and He has CAST IT ALL BEHIND HIS BACK and REMOVED IT FROM YOU as far as the East is from the West.

He wants you, and through His priest He has asked you, never to think about those things from the past ever again, but rather make a fresh start with Him, in His Grace and Love.

God bless you, and I am praying for you.
 
Athanasius,

(I’m posting this on both your threads…)

This is the one thing that set me free from my severe scrupulousity:

When one makes a good confession (i.e. confessing sincerely, with contrition and not intentionally withholding any clearly known mortal sin during the confession), as you have described doing, one is forgiven EVERYTHING, every sin and every detail of every sin.

Any sin or any detail of any sin that one remembers later, is forgiven and does not need to be confessed.

If anything comes to mind from before your last good confession, you have to believe in the power of God’s Grace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and know that it is forgiven and know that you are at peace with God. And don’t let yourself think about those things at all.

Read again what I said in the post above about making a fresh start.

I know personally what it’s like. You have to banish scrupulous thoughts from your mind like any temptation, and don’t let any of those thoughts - like what you’ve written in your long posts - stay in your mind any more. So don’t think about them, and don’t write about them - they are all forgiven and gone forever -

“As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our sins”

“you have cast all my sins behind your back.”

Trust in the infinite Mercy of God, which you have received.
 
I just ran across this today:

I was regretting the past and fearing the future.
Suddenly God was speaking:
“My name is I am.”
I waited and God continued:
“When you live in the past,
with its mistakes and regrets,
it is hard.
I am not there.
My name is not I was.
When you live in the future,
with its problems and fears,
it is hard.
I am not there.
My name is not I will be.
When you live in this moment,
it is not hard.
I am here.
My name is I AM.”
Helen Mellincost
 
Thank-you for your replies
You’ve got it! - now take a deep breath and relax. And most importantly stop asking questions here! Go to your priest, go to the same one each time, listen to what he says and follow it to the letter - no more, no less, no second guessing. If he leads you wrong that will be his fault and his sin, not yours.
That’s even if, taking into account all of what I described in all of the above posts, and with my examination of conscience being so poor, even though it was covering a period of up to even ten months at time? I still need not worry?

I apologize for bothering everyone. I know I need help, but it is difficult for me to find the help I need. I have the book Understanding Scrupulosity, but there are so many questions that I have…
 
Thank-you for your replies

That’s even if, taking into account all of what I described in all of the above posts, and with my examination of conscience being so poor, even though it was covering a period of up to even ten months at time? I still need not worry?

I apologize for bothering everyone. I know I need help, but it is difficult for me to find the help I need. I have the book Understanding Scrupulosity, but there are so many questions that I have…
Yes! Drop it … you are being neurotic about it. I am the last person that would glaze over the details concerning any sacrament but in this case just let it be. Every time your mind wanders to a “what if …” statement about this just let it pass.

It may help you to understand that your process of “rationalizing” as you call it sounds more like the natural process of a person trying to figure out the gravity of the sin. You must become comfortable with a certain amount of ambiguity and a certain amount of imperfection in yourself. Learn to just accept that messiness and move on as you are only hurting yourself with the hyperanalyzing.
 
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