Confession Scrupulosity / Legalism

  • Thread starter Thread starter steve975
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

steve975

Guest
I’ve been really struggling with confession lately and it’s started to become a source of very heated anger at times. I am scrupulous and legalistic. As such, I really take to heart the fact that we are obligated to confess any unconfessed mortal sins on our consciences. This has created real problems for me with confession and it’s wearing me out. I seem to have a limitless memory to always be able to remember some sin from my past, whether recent or long ago, that I have not yet confessed. Along with that, I am often not 100% sure whether certain sins are mortal or venial, so I often feel the compulsion to “play it safe” and assume it’s mortal and should be confessed. To add more fuel to the fire, if I’m not 100% sure as to whether or not I’ve confessed something before, then it becomes an absolute requirement to confess it (perhaps again) to “be safe”. As a result, often times I feel unworthy to receive Communion even if I’ve gone to confession very recently. I also have the unwanted ability and undoubted result of almost always having an exceedingly long list of sins to confess, even if I go to confession regularly. For example, in recent weeks I’ve been to confession once a week and still manage to create a ridiculously long list every single time, a lot of it because I remember all kinds of things from the past. As another result, I usually take a long time in confession and endure added stress beforehand about how long I’m going to take and whether I’ll annoy the priest or other penitents.

Towards the end of Lent, I tried to get in for a confession on 3 occasions in which I didn’t get into the confessional. The reason was due to crowds and limited time, in addition to the fact that I thought I would take too long. So I gave up these times and walked out. I managed to go last Saturday, but then I remembered another sin before I got out of the church and debated whether I should receive Communion on Easter. Then that night, I accidentally took the Lord’s name in vain which was the nail in the coffin for any thoughts of me receiving. Along with this, I also frequently tack on an extra sin of considering receiving Communion in such instances, as well as in presuming on God’s mercy if I do consider receiving with the plan of confessing it afterwards.

So I tried to go again today after during lunchtime, but didn’t get in as the crowd was bigger than I expected with limited time. One of the issues is that on some of these occasions where I tried to go but didn’t, I probably could have gotten in had I stayed in line but didn’t want to because I didn’t want to take a long time with people behind me. I feel the need to either make a confession with nobody else around or in a place where there are several priests hearing at the same time. But these occasions of planning on going and then not getting in have also been occasions of sin for me, as I find myself infuriated to see numerous people there to confess and feeling like now I can’t get in. And I know this is a good thing that people go to confession, but it has caused anger regardless. It’s very demoralizing to prepare yet another exceedingly long list for confession, stress about the sins I need to confess, stress about how long I’m going to take, deal with the pre-confession anxiety, take the effort and time to find and get to a church (which in itself can be a real pain), and then to not get in to confess after all that.

I’m also beginning to think that the only way for someone like me to confess is to keep a track record of every sin I’ve ever confessed, and to create some sort of database of these records. That way, if I’m unsure whether or not I’ve confessed something before, I can look it up and see whether or not I have. Otherwise, I can see myself going through my whole life reconfessing the same sins numerous times due to not being 100% certain I’ve confessed them before. I honestly don’t know how the majority of people make confessions without having a list.

Also, I feel that this is causing me to be a very poor example for other Catholics or those who I would like to have come home to the Church. If they witness me going to confession all the time, always taking a long time to do it and stressing about it, always still debating whether I should receive Communion and frequently not receiving, I feel like I am only turning them further away from the Church. This is not good.

One final thing is that we are required to honestly examine our consciences to make a confession. But for me, this has contributed to these exceedingly long lists for confession even if I go regularly. I just keep thinking of more and more things, so sometimes I’ll make myself stop thinking about it because it gets out of hand. But when I stop thinking about it, perhaps I’m not examining my conscience enough, which is another sin.

This sometimes feels like a hole I keep digging myself deeper into or a downward spiral. But I don’t know what the answer is given that I feel like I am going according to Church doctrine for making valid confessions.
 
You need to make an appointment with a priest (don’t priest shop, your parish priest will do.). Tell him what you told us here. Ask him to be your regular confessor. Then do what he tells you. Don’t go to confession here, there, or all about town. Go to the same priest, at the interval he suggests, doing the penance he gives you, confessing as he recommends (only mortal sins, only sins from this week, etc.)

Scrupulosity is a very difficult cross to bear. A few members of my family tend in this way and having a regular confessor has helped tremendously.
 
Here’s my suggestion: print out your original post, make an appointment for confession, and give this post to the priest, then make your confession as best you can. Then follow the priest’s instructions completely. If he tells you never to bring up a past sin again, then don’t.
 
I’m also beginning to think that the only way for someone like me to confess is to keep a track record of every sin I’ve ever confessed, and to create some sort of database of these records. That way, if I’m unsure whether or not I’ve confessed something before, I can look it up and see whether or not I have. Otherwise, I can see myself going through my whole life reconfessing the same sins numerous times due to not being 100% certain I’ve confessed them before. I honestly don’t know how the majority of people make confessions without having a list.

My goodness. Stop beating yourself up about this. Honestly it sounds like you are spending way to much time dwelling on this issue. God knows your sins and short comings and has forgiven them long before you ever committed them. (Perhaps you heard of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ! HE IS RISEN!).

Pray to God that you will make a good confession. Enter the confessional and speak openly and honestly with the priest. When you are finished say “For these and all of my sins I am truely sorry”. Accept forgiveness, and go forth and try to sin no more! You will fail, but God knows this and appreciates the effort anyway. After all, He made you!

Also, it is not a sin to almost do something, or to be tempted. Christ himself was tempted, but never fell. Unfortunately we mortals must dealing with falling and getting back up every day. It’s what we do, get used to it. Know that God Loves You and wants you to be happy, not miserable.

May The Good Lord Bless You And Keep You!

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
 
Mrs_Sally said:
You need to make an appointment with a priest (don’t priest shop, your parish priest will do.). Tell him what you told us here. Ask him to be your regular confessor. Then do what he tells you. Don’t go to confession here, there, or all about town. Go to the same priest, at the interval he suggests, doing the penance he gives you, confessing as he recommends (only mortal sins, only sins from this week, etc.)

Scrupulosity is a very difficult cross to bear. A few members of my family tend in this way and having a regular confessor has helped tremendously.
Click to expand...
[SIGN]I Agree[/SIGN]

Having a regular confessor will also help with the “Did I confess ___ already?”

What ever you do, don’t create an Excel file. Then you’ll worry about the security of your computer, what to do if you print the list, transferring data to the new computer…
 
This is long, but bear with me, please. I can understand what the OP is saying. If you take very seriously things like confession, purgatory, and just being pleasing to God, in today’s world I don’t think you can help but be concerned that you’ve done all you can do in having your sins forgiven – especially when so many priests seem to have you on a timer when going to confession.

One thing that has helped me is that our Lord knows we’re only human. We forget things; we don’t understand some things; and we’re just plain stupid at times, too. But that’s why He died on the cross and that’s why He is so merciful in His ability to forgive - as well as the tools He has given us to accomplish that forgiveness.

Remember that we are to confess our sins and ask forgiveness of the Lord – before going to confession. That means at the moment we realize we have sinned, we should be confessing, praying a prayer for forgiveness, and making it right if need be.

Confession to our priest is not so much for our soul as it is for our spirit and our own conscience and attitude. It’s the step we take further (the extra tool Catholics have avail to them) to do as the Bible says and to confess our sins one-to-another. The priest’s absolution is so that we can move forward in life and not be looking back so we continue on in our spiritual journey without sin holding us back or making us wonder if we are really forgiven.

It’s just like when Jesus forgave sinners in the Bible and said, “Go and sin no more”. It’s over, done with, and we now move forward in trying to do better.

Personally, I don’t think we confess enough. I’m a believer that we sin some way or another probably every single day. Most times we don’t mean to, but as humans, we’re always messing up some where or another, or hurting or offending others – even if we don’t know we did or meant to. Therefore, it’s impossible for us to remember every single sin we’ve committed. Again, our Lord knows this.

Praying daily for forgiveness, not only for those sins we know and remember well, but also for the things we don’t remember we’ve done, for hurting or offending others, and for times we’ve been unpleasing to God, etc., etc., is one of the most cleansing prayers you can pray. Including the same thing in your good confession to your priest (as often as you feel you need to go to confession), is the final step in making amends for these sins and the world being lifted from your shoulders after that good confession and penance.

I also believe this is how the Lord desires us to use the tools for forgiveness and penance that He has given us. You see, our Lord doesn’t want us taking notes and making spreadsheets over our sins. We’ve not only been freed from sin through the blood of Christ, but that blood also has freed us from the burden of sin! We no longer have raise a lamb, kill it, butcher it, bring in the best parts, have it blessed, have the priest offer up our burnt offerings, etc. etc.

When Christ died for us, He died to free us from the burden of sin. The only burden of sin we now have is the burden in our hearts of hurting God because we sinned. If we’re making lists and doing spreadsheets, we’re not free from the burden of sin; we’re back to the burden of burnt offerings in order to make amends for our sins! We’re back to the ‘action of forgiveness’; rather than to the *transformation of our hearts *- which is what God has been desiring of us all along.
 
karennascargo3 said:
Personally, I don’t think we confess enough. I’m a believer that we sin some way or another probably every single day.
Click to expand...
Well yes, of course we do. It would, in fact, be virtually impossible to confess all our sins. But we’re not required to. We only have to confess mortal sins–those deliberate sins by which we freely decide to reject God.

At one time in the early Church, it was the custom to confess only once after Baptism.

God doesn’t expect the impossible. And it is impossible for us to keep a ledger sheet for every sin.

Some priests do try to hurry the penitents along, but probably if that happens frequently it is because they are hearing a detailed voluminous list of venial sins, which need not be confessed, often from penitents who may have no mortal sins at all.
 
I appreciate everyone’s responses. I think perhaps I need to take the suggestion of finding a “full-time” confessor instead of going to numerous different churches.

I’m still having trouble with certain issues, though. Several have suggested that if a priest instructs me not to confess anything from the past, I should obey. But would a priest have this authority? If we are commanded by Church doctrine to confess any unconfessed mortal sins from our past, how could a priest instruct us not to confess anything from the far past if there’s a possibility there are unconfessed mortal sins from the past? If I happen to remember one, by obeying the priest, I’d be disobeying the Church and invalidating future confessions by withholding sins, no?

Also, as far as the recommendations against keeping track records and databases of confessed sins, what do you do if you remember things from 5, 10, 15 years ago and therefore aren’t 100% positive you’ve confessed it before? Should I just trust that I’ve probably confessed it? Surely there will be something I remember at some point that I should confess but never have. If it were as simple as going into confession and saying, “I’ve broken the _th Commandment”, then I could see how I be assured that I’ve generally confessed to pretty much any past mortal sin. But because we have to be more specific than that about the actual act we have committed, I can’t see a way around this issue.

This probably wouldn’t be a problem if I had gone to confession every week or couple of weeks since reaching the age of reason. But that isn’t the case, so there are long periods in my past without having gone to confession from which I pull up memories of sins. Maybe I should pray for amnesia. J/K.
 
Whenever you receive absolution in confession, all your past sins are forgiven.
Forgotten sins are forgiven. Dubious sins are forgiven. Uncertain sins are forgiven.
They do not pop back up onto the sin ledger just because you remember them later.
Absolution forgives all sins.

It has been been advised that if a person later remembers a sin, it should be mentioned in the next confession. BUT–I don’t think any priest would apply that counsel to the scrupulous. It can only lead to further scrupulosity and second guessing.

If you’re not sure whether or not it was confessed previously–don’t bring it up; it’s already forgiven.

If you’re not sure whether it was mortal or not, it wasn’t.

A confessor applies the moral law of the Church to the individual penitent. For a scrupulous person especially, his advice should not be questioned.

For a scrupulous person, sometimes the hardest sin to conquer is the failure to trust in God’s mercy.
 
steve975 said:
I appreciate everyone’s responses. I think perhaps I need to take the suggestion of finding a “full-time” confessor instead of going to numerous different churches.

Great plan. Try to find a priest who is confident and experienced in dealing with scruples.

I’m still having trouble with certain issues, though. Several have suggested that if a priest instructs me not to confess anything from the past, I should obey. But would a priest have this authority? If we are commanded by Church doctrine to confess any unconfessed mortal sins from our past, how could a priest instruct us not to confess anything from the far past if there’s a possibility there are unconfessed mortal sins from the past? If I happen to remember one, by obeying the priest, I’d be disobeying the Church and invalidating future confessions by withholding sins, no?

No. The priest does have the authority to instruct you not to confess any more sins from the past. On a practical level, it is not good for you to continue to torment yourself with the possibility of unconfessed past sins. Surely God does not will that for you. On a supernatural level, a person who has religious authority over you, including your confessor, is the one responsible before God for any wrong he might command you to do, not you. This is exactly what lies at the heart of the recommendation to place yourself under obedience to one single confessor. Scrupulosity robs the sufferer of the ability to make good determinations regarding his own conscience, so the confessor takes over and bears the responsibility. You can safely obey whatever he tells you. Take the Blessed Mother’s words to heart from the marriage feast at Cana: “Do whatever He tells you.” God tells you through the confessor. Here’s a thought from St. Philip Neri on the same subject: "He who always acts under obedience, may rest assured that he will not have to give an account of his actions to God."

Also, as far as the recommendations against keeping track records and databases of confessed sins, what do you do if you remember things from 5, 10, 15 years ago and therefore aren’t 100% positive you’ve confessed it before? Should I just trust that I’ve probably confessed it? Surely there will be something I remember at some point that I should confess but never have. If it were as simple as going into confession and saying, “I’ve broken the _th Commandment”, then I could see how I be assured that I’ve generally confessed to pretty much any past mortal sin. But because we have to be more specific than that about the actual act we have committed, I can’t see a way around this issue.

Your regular confessor (having one is going to solve a lot of problems for you) will draw the line at some point and end the confessing of old sins. You will have to trust that God has forgiven you, whether you remember confessing them or not. You understand that legalism is a problem for you, so you must begin to uproot it. Your relationship with God is not a game with complicated rules where God tries to get you out on a technicality. It is the ultimate love relationship. It’s not at all about saying just the right words to cover yourself.

This probably wouldn’t be a problem if I had gone to confession every week or couple of weeks since reaching the age of reason. But that isn’t the case, so there are long periods in my past without having gone to confession from which I pull up memories of sins. Maybe I should pray for amnesia. J/K.

You’ll have to stop pulling up memories. Go ahead and pray for amnesia. NOT kidding.
Click to expand...
You’ll be just fine if you have the humility to obey. Pray for that gift, too.

Betsy
 
one aspect of the question:

Confession of sins in general…what do we have to confess??

only mortal sins must be confessed (and in number and kind)

no venial sin needs be confessed. they can be forgiven in other ways …though it is good and recommended to confess them…at least some of them…(and one can include them intentionally in saying at the end ‘and all the sins of my life’)

if one is doubtful than one had at the time --a grave matter, full knowledge and full consent. then one is NOT obliged to confess it.

if one is scrupulous or has a tendency towards scruples or has scruples in some degree then it is advised that one not confess a doubtful sin either a doubtful mortal or a doubtful venial sin.

(side note…i would add that if it is a sexual sin was was (an action …that was done (…thoughts can be mortal of course…but one can be tempted more often in this way without consent) --but one is not sure if all the three aspects were met --it can be particularly good to confess it saying one is not sure and seek advice for this can be a tricky and difficult area …)

and if something is doubtful and one confesses it one would add that it is doubtful…either at all or doubtful that it was mortal…

So what needs be confessed strictly?

if mortal -yes.

If venial – nope.

if doubtful “sin” either doubtful “mortal” or doubtful at all …nope.

if one is lax -or in need of advice etc (see above) and it is a doubtful ‘mortal’ sin – it can be good to mention it–but as doubtful.

And it is recommended for someone with a normal conscience to confess “doubtful mortal sins”

if one is scrupulous or have a tendency etc that way-- and it is doubtful –it is advised not to.

Of course as mentioned…any doubtful sin that is confessed… saya it was doubtful in some way…
 
A few thoughts for ya:
  1. Get a regular confessor (with all your confessions by now you prob know one who you feel comfortable with and who seems to be a very good Catholic Priest who thinks with the Church). One has security with him. Listen to him…(unless he tells you something that is manifestly wrong…such as “contraception is ok” …and many like things you will know from the Catechism) if he makes an error it is his error…not yours…a scrupulous person is safe listening to him …this is age old advice and practice for the scrupulous.
2.Examination your Conscience like this:

a. Examine first …are you conscious of any mortal sins? Look for any mortal sins… If so take note in your mind of them in number and kind (no unnecessary details)

b.Now if you have mortal sins to confess (that you are morally certain of …not doubtful) you need not examine any further. You may just confess them and intend all the venial sins when you say “and all the sins of my life”.

c. If you would like to add a few venial sins …take note of 2 or 3 that you are particularly sorry for.

d. If you are not conscious of mortal sins …remember that you have no sins that you have to confess. No need of any list.

e. So then if you have no mortal sins…examine your venial sins and pick* a few * you are particularly sorry for. No details needed. Or numbers even.

f. Now are any of your sins doubtful? If so remember doubtful sins never have to be confessed… And a person with scruples is recommended to not confess them. Of course you may include them and will include them if they were sins when you say “and all the sins of my life” at the end of your confession. So no need to confess them

g. So now you have either mortal sins and a few venial sins or just a few venial sins (say no more than you can count on one hand). This is what you confess. Hopefully it will then be always a very short list…on one hand.

This should not be a very long process either…

So Joe goes to confession…

First finger: I accuse myself of lustful thoughts 2 x
2nd finger: Lying often
3rd Finger: neglect in my work, neglect in my duties towards my kids
4th finger: intemperance in food
5th Finger: and impatience
and all the sins of my life particularly for past sins of lust and impatience

Brief. In this case the person had mortal sins (the lustful thoughts) and since nothing else in is particular case was for him further mortal sins…he could have stopped there…but instead he picked some more.

later on the way home he remembered he also looked at pornography…but since he did not deliberately conceal this for he was very sorry about it…but just got rushed due to the line …and forgot…it was absolved…and he knows that since it was a mortal sin since it was grave matter and he did it with full knowledge and complete consent…he knows he will have to confess it next confession. he then goes to Communion the next day at Mass.

He also forgot he was going to confess another venial sin that he wanted to confess…but knows he does not need to confess that the next time for it was not mortal…and it was absolved since he intended them all and was sorry for it etc.
  1. Learn to recognize your scruples. So you may dismiss them. Scruples are to be dismissed …just like temptations.
  2. Scruples are to be passed by like a barking dog or hissing goose…one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or hissing goose does one??? No one just keeps walking. (this comes from a 15th century Carthusian)
  3. Stand firm against your scruples.
  4. Pray…
  5. Seek to follow Christ with Joy…trust…focus on virtue. Focus of love and on hope.
    He is the Good Shepherd who loves you. He is your security. He is your hope!
Mary Star of Hope Pray for all your Children
 
Bookcat said:
So Joe goes to confession…

First finger: I accuse myself of lustful thoughts 2 x
2nd finger: Lying often
3rd Finger: neglect in my work, neglect in my duties towards my kids
4th finger: intemperance in food
5th Finger: and impatience
and all the sins of my life particularly for past sins of lust and impatience

Brief. **In this case the person had mortal sins (the lustful thoughts) **and since nothing else in is particular case was for him further mortal sins…he could have stopped there…but instead he picked some more.
Click to expand...
I am writing this only because you were addressing a person with scruples who might misconstrue.

For lustful thoughts to meet the conditions for a mortal sin you would have to be intentionally dwelling on them, telling yourself they are sinful and you should put them out of your mind and choosing not to do so.
 
momor said:
I am writing this only because you were addressing a person with scruples who might misconstrue.
Click to expand...
Yes thoughts can be particularly bothersome with someone who has scruples…

they must (as everyone must) remember…

For one to commit a mortal sin there would need to be not only grave matter…but also full knowledge and complete consent.

As to thoughts…all sorts of thoughts can come to ones mind…and they can come frequently and even perhaps in a vivid way…but yet one does not give complete consent.

For a mortal sin one needs complete consent.

And just cause some thoughts occur to one…there need not be any sin! The best way to deal with thoughts is the indirect method…do not stress over them…relax and do not consent…and turn to something else…or turn to Jesus and to something else…keep walking.

Regarding mortal sin…certainly one needs complete consent.

As the Catechism puts it:

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.
Regarding when one is tempted and one wonders if one gave compete consent…various theological works give some helpful signs of not having complete consent…such as:

being half asleep…distracted by another matter and hardly noticing the thought…after the act or thought one scarcely remembers what happened…one hesitates but does not want to offend God and so after the moments of hesitation one rejects the temptation…one resists thoughts but in a half hearted way or in a weak manner putting up half resistance (hence partial consent so perhaps a venial sin)…

From the Compendium of the Catechism:
  1. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
  1. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
 
Only read the first few posts but wanted to comment. Without being too flippant, you need to lighten up a bit on yourself. I had a similar experience. Didn’t go to confession for over 30 yrs, worked up to going and did and I really did just forget some things but I came to wash away the whole block sins over my long absence. The priest – probably from wise experience – absolved me of all sins, even those that I didn’t remember at the time of confession. Legal training and analysis had tripped me up quite a bit for a long time.

Maybe I’m imposing my own interpretation of theology/catechism but here’s what I think. When you have thought about going to confession for a long time and done the necessary soul searching and owning up, you bring all of that to the confessional. If what you say in the confessional omits a few details here and there, it’s the equivalent of a typo. If you have brought your heart of sorrow on all things into the confessional, the Big Guy has you covered. You are absolved of the things you bring into the confessional. If you are truly tortured by continued guilt, go to confession again.
 
Many people have answered your question but as one who has suffered OCD personally i will give your question a shot. Do as others have instructed you and find a priest. He will help you.
Confess only what you can remember. Once you are done you are done. Don’t worry about purposly forgetting things or anything like. When your done, your done.

If there is a mass afterwards recieve the Blessed Sacrament no matter how you feel about your confession or the state of your sould unless you are **sure sure sure **that you have commited a mortal sin. Don’t worry about any thought that are running through your head.

If you feel a sin is **odd **to confess (b/c in reality it isn’t a sin) but you feel compelled to confess it, don’t. I did that all the time and oh what a mess.

What is mortal? Hmm its hard to answer but a priest may help you to discern. I find it helps if I write it down in simple words, leave it for a while, come back and read it. If it seems silly or venial then it probably isnt.
This is based on my experience. I will keep you in my prayers
God Bless:thumbsup:
 
Flame4 said:
Many people have answered your question but as one who has suffered OCD personally i will give your question a shot. Do as others have instructed you and find a priest. He will help you.
Confess only what you can remember. Once you are done you are done. Don’t worry about purposly forgetting things or anything like. When your done, your done.

If there is a mass afterwards recieve the Blessed Sacrament no matter how you feel about your confession or the state of your sould unless you are **sure sure sure **that you have commited a mortal sin. Don’t worry about any thought that are running through your head.

If you feel a sin is **odd **to confess (b/c in reality it isn’t a sin) but you feel compelled to confess it, don’t. I did that all the time and oh what a mess.

What is mortal? Hmm its hard to answer but a priest may help you to discern. I find it helps if I write it down in simple words, leave it for a while, come back and read it. If it seems silly or venial then it probably isnt.
This is based on my experience. I will keep you in my prayers
God Bless:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I’m glad you mentioned OCD because that is a huge part of scrupulosity and requires treatment all it’s own, separate from the priest confessor role.
 
^ Yes you should seek medical help if you feel it is appropriate. I went through it and it has helped. 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top