Confession to a priest in mortal sin?

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I have been wondering about this since reading about the New Orleans priest who stole money from his church to support his secret wife and children. Anyway, if one confesses to a priest who is in mortal sin himself, can that priest still absolve us or our sins? Wouldn’t his state somehow prevent this? What does everyone think (or know):confused:
 
I have been wondering about this since reading about the New Orleans priest who stole money from his church to support his secret wife and children. Anyway, if one confesses to a priest who is in mortal sin himself, can that priest still absolve us or our sins? Wouldn’t his state somehow prevent this? What does everyone think (or know):confused:
Nope. A priest administers the sacraments by virtue of their office of priest and their sacramental ordination. Their capacity to do so is unrelated to their personal sanctity. Similar to sacramental marriage - I may be a good or bad, faithful or unfaithful spouse but none of it changes the fact that I AM married and thus can validly fulfil all the functions and obligations and have all the authority that a spouse has.

To draw another analogy, if I give you a diamond that diamond has its value in and of itself, and that value remains the same whether or not I who give it to you am a good bad or indifferent person.
 
I have been wondering about this since reading about the New Orleans priest who stole money from his church to support his secret wife and children. Anyway, if one confesses to a priest who is in mortal sin himself, can that priest still absolve us or our sins? Wouldn’t his state somehow prevent this? What does everyone think (or know):confused:
The Church teaches that the sacraments function *ex opere operato *-- “By the work having been worked”. The grace conferred through the sacraments is explicitly not dependent on the state nor personal holiness of the minister.

tee
 
The view that clergy lose their ability to validly administer the sacraments (particularly the sacrament of penance and Eucharist) is actually a condemned heresy known as “donatism.”

It is, of course, unrelated to the heresy of “donutism” - the propensity for some Catholics to leave their parish and join a denomination based on the quality of the donuts and coffee that that is served before, after, and during Sunday services. 😛
 
The idea that God would not forgive the sins of a penitent who confesses to a priest who happens to be in mortal sin himself is based on one of the devil’s favorite lies: that God doesn’t love us.

God is not setting traps for us. He’s not up in heaven trying to find ways to keep us out. Rather, he’s trying desperately to find ways to get us into heaven. He looks at the love and sincere sorrow in the penitent’s heart, not the priest’s. God grants us his mercy because he is good, not because the priest is good.
 
God is not setting traps for us. He’s not up in heaven trying to find ways to keep us out. Rather, he’s trying desperately to find ways to get us into heaven. He looks at the love and sincere sorrow in the penitent’s heart, not the priest’s. God grants us his mercy because he is good, not because the priest is good.
This is absolutely true, but I worry that it may give people over to sinful presumptuousness. For instance, if the priest forgets to absolve the person “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” then the person’s confession is invalid and needs to be repeated. Some people may think of this as a technicality, but God reveals through the Church that this is an invalid confession and needs to be repeated for the sin confessed to be legitimately absolved.
 
This is absolutely true, but I worry that it may give people over to sinful presumptuousness. For instance, if the priest forgets to absolve the person “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” then the person’s confession is invalid and needs to be repeated. Some people may think of this as a technicality, but God reveals through the Church that this is an invalid confession and needs to be repeated for the sin confessed to be legitimately absolved.
God’s mercy isn’t bounded by his ministers’ or his penitents’ simple human error.

It is clear Catholic teaching, for example, that all mortal sins are forgiven if the penitent sincerely attempts to confess them all but simply forgot one. Of course, if the penitent then remembers the sin he forgot to mention, he must do so in his next confession, but is not required to rush to go to confession again. And in the meantime he is free to go to Holy Communion.

Likewise, suppose a person commits a mortal sin and is sincerely sorry, with the firm intention of going to confession as soon as possible. If he dies in a car crash before having a chance to go to confession, God isn’t going to get all technical on him and say “yeah, but if only that drunk driver hadn’t crossed the center lane…”

And in confession, if the penitent doesn’t know the details of what’s necessary for absolution to be valid, or if he simply didn’t notice that the priest didn’t say the words absolutely correctly, God isn’t going to hold him responsible for that.

If, on the other hand, the penitent notices the priest’s error, he should, of course, bring it to his attention. But if the priest dismisses the penitent’s concern without correcting the problem, God will certainly forgive him. In this situation, too, the penitent should bring the sin to another priest in his next confession, but he should not worry about what will happen if he dies before he has that opportunity.

This isn’t presumptuous at all. It is confidence in God’s love for his wayward children, and is, in fact, very pleasing to him.

It isn’t sinful presumptuousness to trust that God isn’t going to get all technical on us. Rather, sinful presumptuousness is to commit a sin with the attitude that “it really doesn’t matter if I sin because God will forgive me.”
 
Isn’t the priest a representative of the whole Christian Community? Wasn’t confession in the first days of the Church supposed to be performed in public, before the whole community?
Isn’t a sin more than an offence to God but also to the whole Church? Wasn’t the Sacrament of Penance made easier by making it private? (not having to go through the humbling experience to perform penance in front of the whole comunity E.G., “sack cloth and ashes?)
In the early church, was a person absolved of his sin after going through public humilation or was it still necessary to be absolved by a priest. In other words was the forgiveness of the community sufficient or was the words of the priest, 'I absolve you of your sins” still nescessary?
 
It is clear Catholic teaching, for example, that all mortal sins are forgiven if the penitent sincerely attempts to confess them all but simply forgot one. Of course, if the penitent then remembers the sin he forgot to mention, he must do so in his next confession, but is not required to rush to go to confession again. And in the meantime he is free to go to Holy Communion.

Okay, but in RCIA, we learned to ask forgiveness for these sins and all others I may have forgotten - something like that. For example, I converted to Catholicism at a ‘mature’ age in life. Prior, I’d been a lapsed Protestant How in the world can I remember everything from my entire past for my first confession; in fact, it’s unlikely I will remember them again.

Our RCIA instructor said to work hard at remembering the mortal ones, but that the sentence "about any others I may have forgotten’ would take care of it. I was and am truly penitant when I go to confession, but now, I reflect on any recent sins I need to confess.

What if I remember one from my past, but have again forgotten it when I go to confession? It’s not my intent to ‘hide it’ (as if that were possible:blush: but I did remember it at one time and then again forgot it.
 
God’s mercy isn’t bounded by his ministers’ or his penitents’ simple human error.

It is clear Catholic teaching, for example, that all mortal sins are forgiven if the penitent sincerely attempts to confess them all but simply forgot one. Of course, if the penitent then remembers the sin he forgot to mention, he must do so in his next confession, but is not required to rush to go to confession again. And in the meantime he is free to go to Holy Communion…"
Okay, but in RCIA, we learned to ask forgiveness for these sins and all others I may have forgotten - something like that. For example, I converted to Catholicism at a ‘mature’ age in life. Prior, I’d been a lapsed Protestant How in the world can I remember everything from my entire past for my first confession; in fact, it’s unlikely I will remember them again.

Our RCIA instructor said to work hard at remembering the mortal ones, but that the sentence "about any others I may have forgotten’ would take care of it. I was and am truly penitant when I go to confession, but now, I reflect on any recent sins I need to confess.

What if I remember one from my past, but have again forgotten it when I go to confession? It’s not my intent to ‘hide it’ (as if that were possible:blush: but I did remember it at one time and then again forgot it.
 
Okay, but in RCIA, we learned to ask forgiveness for these sins and all others I may have forgotten - something like that. For example, I converted to Catholicism at a ‘mature’ age in life. Prior, I’d been a lapsed Protestant How in the world can I remember everything from my entire past for my first confession; in fact, it’s unlikely I will remember them again.

Our RCIA instructor said to work hard at remembering the mortal ones, but that the sentence "about any others I may have forgotten’ would take care of it. I was and am truly penitant when I go to confession, but now, I reflect on any recent sins I need to confess.

What if I remember one from my past, but have again forgotten it when I go to confession? It’s not my intent to ‘hide it’ (as if that were possible:blush: but I did remember it at one time and then again forgot it.
I’ve discussed this with priests in the box before. The impression that I have gotten from several different priests from different parishes is that it’s not a problem if you honestly forgot to confess it and then remembered it afterwards. And, you don’t really need to confess it, but you can if you want to.
 
Okay, but in RCIA, we learned to ask forgiveness for these sins and all others I may have forgotten - something like that. For example, I converted to Catholicism at a ‘mature’ age in life. Prior, I’d been a lapsed Protestant How in the world can I remember everything from my entire past for my first confession; in fact, it’s unlikely I will remember them again.

Our RCIA instructor said to work hard at remembering the mortal ones, but that the sentence "about any others I may have forgotten’ would take care of it. I was and am truly penitant when I go to confession, but now, I reflect on any recent sins I need to confess.

What if I remember one from my past, but have again forgotten it when I go to confession? It’s not my intent to ‘hide it’ (as if that were possible:blush: but I did remember it at one time and then again forgot it.
Don’t worry. The only way a sin is not forgiven why the priest absolves you is if you INTENTIONALLY withold the sin.

In any other case, forgetfullnes, didn’t know it was a sin, etc., you are forgiven.

God Bless
 
I’ve discussed this with priests in the box before. The impression that I have gotten from several different priests from different parishes is that it’s not a problem if you honestly forgot to confess it and then remembered it afterwards. And, you don’t really need to confess it, but you can if you want to.
According to the CCC, forgeotten sins, even though forgiven, SHOULD be confessed when remembered.

should (shŏŏd) auxiliary verb - must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency).
 
God’s mercy isn’t bounded by his ministers’ or his penitents’ simple human error.
I did not say God’s mercy is “bounded” at all. I know his mercy is infinite. However, some people make the mistake of thinking that because the mercy is infinite, he will overlook the fact that a person is in mortal sin. The Church teaches that, in God’s infinite mercy, he does not overlook that mortal sin and decides to send people in a state of mortal sin to hell. It is theoretically possible to have a mortal sin absolved out of perfect contrition for the sin, but this perfect contrition is not something very many people are capable of. This is *not *a limit to his mercy.
Matt Collins:
Likewise, suppose a person commits a mortal sin and is sincerely sorry, with the firm intention of going to confession as soon as possible. If he dies in a car crash before having a chance to go to confession, God isn’t going to get all technical on him and say “yeah, but if only that drunk driver hadn’t crossed the center lane…”
You are being very presumptuous about this. The Church does not teach that “having the firm intention to go to confession as soon as possible” is adequate for the absolution of a mortal sin. If someone dies on the way to confession, it is possible that they go to hell - given Church teaching. If you think otherwise, I strongly suggest you find an official Church document endorsing your belief - otherwise you may be misleading those around you and giving them the same dangerous attitude of presumption.
Matt Collins:
And in confession, if the penitent doesn’t know the details of what’s necessary for absolution to be valid, or if he simply didn’t notice that the priest didn’t say the words absolutely correctly, God isn’t going to hold him responsible for that. … But if the priest dismisses the penitent’s concern without correcting the problem, God will certainly forgive him. In this situation, too, the penitent should bring the sin to another priest in his next confession, but he should not worry about what will happen if he dies before he has that opportunity.
Again, you do not know that and the Church does not teach that. It is your private opinion, unsupported by the faith the Church teaches. If the person does not receive absolution, then they were not absolved. If they went into the confessional with mortal sin, and did not receive absolution, then the Church teaches they are still in a state of mortal sin - even if the priest forgot out of simple error to give the words of absolution. They need to remind the priest to give those words, if this happens, and if he does not then the person needs to find another priest ASAP and mustn’t receive the Eucharist before doing so.

I strongly suggest you keep these private opinions to yourself, because they may put others in danger of thinking that “Oh, God doesn’t care about that” - when the “that” part is something that God has revealed he does care about, like mortal sin or repeating one’s confession if absolution was not granted. God reveals these things to the Church for a reason, and they are not mere “technicalities.”
Matt Collins:
It isn’t sinful presumptuousness to trust that God isn’t going to get all technical on us. Rather, sinful presumptuousness is to commit a sin with the attitude that “it really doesn’t matter if I sin because God will forgive me.”
Given the way you interpret this “trust” it certainly seems that it errs into sinful presumptuousness, as it ventures into providing private interpretations that deviate from known Catholic teachings. Be very careful, because misleading some into thinking that certain things the Church teaches are necessary are really only “technicalities” that God doesn’t care about may lead a person to commit serious sin that goes unconfessed - something that the Church teaches may very well lead them to hell. Though these private opinions may never lead you to commit such sins, they may be misunderstood by others and lead them into sin - thinking some rule about sin is merely a “technicality” as you have described it.
 
Your points about being careful not to lead others into error are well taken. In the spirit of faith seeking understanding, I will look for confirmation of my previous statements from authoritative, orthodox moral theologians and official church teaching.

That being said, I think you may have read certain attitudes into what I have written that I don’t think are justified by the words I used. The basic points I was trying to make are doctrinally sound and are basic tenets of our faith as Christians. They are:
  1. God loves us and when he judges us he will be both just and merciful.
  2. God is trying to bring us to heaven, not to send us to hell.
  3. The only people who go to hell are those who choose to, whether by a positive choice or by neglect. That is what is meant by the three criteria for a mortal sin, “serious matter, full knowledge and full consent.”
  4. All sinners, even those who have not had the opportunity to receive absolution from a priest, have the duty to hope in God’s mercy. And if they have a duty to hope in God’s mercy, it is because he has promised his mercy to those who ask for it. The usual way to ask for God’s mercy is the sacrament of Confession.
By revealing himself as our Father, God is telling us a lot about himself. He is instructing us to trust in him as a child trusts in his father. By revealing himself as “father,” God is actually commanding us to use our human knowledge of how a just, loving, and merciful father treats his children as the basis of our trust in him.

So how does a child trust such a father? He knows that his father will forgive him if he expresses his sincere sorrow for his transgressions, promises to do his best to avoid the same offense in the future, and tries his best to do what his father expects, even if, through no fault of his own, he is unable to perfectly fulfill his father’s wishes as the child understands them to be.

I think (my opinion) that any reasonable interpretation of the Church’s teaching about God’s fatherhood, his love, his justice, and his mercy, necessarily leads to the conclusion that a person who dies in a car crash on his way to confess a mortal sin receives God’s mercy, and that a person who unknowingly receives an “invalid” absolution from a priest is, in fact, forgiven.

If this were not the case, then every time we confess a mortal sin we would have to ask the priest to prove he has valid faculties to hear our confession in order to be sure our mortal sins are forgiven. We would have to have before us during every confession the exact words of absolution so that we could compare the priest’s words with the words on the card. We would have to ask the priest to repeat the absolution if we weren’t absolutely sure he said every syllable. And even if we were absolutely sure the priest had valid faculties to hear our confession, and that he pronounced the words absolutely perfectly, we could simply be mistaken. This means that even if we do everything required of us, to the best of our ability, we could not be confident that our mortal sins were forgiven. This is not reasonable. It is scrupulous. It is a practical denial of God’s love and mercy. It reduces God to a technician, rather than a lover. It is bad theology.

The Church can’t and doesn’t attempt to explicitly define what occurs in every possible circumstance. Rather, she defines doctrines and proposes principles to apply those doctrines to the circumstances at hand, and then expects us, as rational adults, to make a judgment. That is what I have done, and I believe the judgment I made is based on sound doctrine, sound moral and pastoral theology, and sound reason.

BTW, I notice that your forum name is “nobeerinheaven,” and that my signature is “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” I wonder what that means…
 
Judas was one of the twelve yet Jesus did not prevent him from preaching the Gospel.
The view that clergy lose their ability to validly administer the sacraments (particularly the sacrament of penance and Eucharist) is actually a condemned heresy known as “donatism.”

It is, of course, unrelated to the heresy of “donutism” - the propensity for some Catholics to leave their parish and join a denomination based on the quality of the donuts and coffee that that is served before, after, and during Sunday services. 😛
:rotfl:
 
HI!
I’ve just been to confession,and I FEEL GREAT!!!.
(just thought I’d tell you!).
Code:
                                     God Bless.
                                                      Mick.(UK)
 
Anyway, if one confesses to a priest who is in mortal sin himself, can that priest still absolve us or our sins? Wouldn’t his state somehow prevent this? What does everyone think (or know)

**The idea that the spiritual state of the priest administering a sacrament affects the efficacy of that sacrament is the heresy of Donatism, which was condemned by the Church centuries ago.

The priest might be administring the sacrament unto his own damnation, but it does not affect their efficacy for those receiving them with the right dispositions.

Didn’t you learn this in basic B-flat catechism?**
 
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