Confession - to God directly

[brian_custer]

barring battlefield or conditions of extremis how can one be forgiven of mortal sin w/out confessing same to a catholic priest?

if such conditions exist i would like to know about it

but then again maybe i wouldn’t

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

barring battlefield or conditions of extremis how can one be forgiven of mortal sin w/out confessing same to a catholic priest?

if such conditions exist i would like to know about it

but then again maybe i wouldn’t

catholic.com/quickquestions/can-someone-who-has-committed-a-mortal-sin-receive-communion-if-he-makes-a-perfect-ac

"Perfect contrition, on the other hand, “arises from a love by which God is loved above all else” (CCC 1452). Only this form of contrition obtains the forgiveness of grave sins before going to confession.

Since perfect contrition obtains the forgiveness of grave sins, one who makes an act of perfect contrition may receive the Eucharist under certain conditions. The Code of Canon Law states:"

Thoughts?

 

[Markie_Boy]

I am just going to have to go with what Jesus taught in the Lord’s Prayer. It is perfect because he is perfect.

He showed us how to pray, and asking forgiveness was part of that, along with forgiving others.

I just don’t see anything that convinces me that one should confess to a priest, rather than directly to God.

And the 1 John 1:9 verse also negates purgatory to me. I have been told purgatory is a place or condition of purging, but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to cleanse us of all.

Complicated Catholic theology keeps bumping in to simple Biblical truth in some places to me.

 

[mattp0625]

I am just going to have to go with what Jesus taught in the Lord’s Prayer. It is perfect because he is perfect.

He showed us how to pray, and asking forgiveness was part of that, along with forgiving others.

I just don’t see anything that convinces me that one should confess to a priest, rather than directly to God.

And the 1 John 1:9 verse also negates purgatory to me. I have been told purgatory is a place or condition of purging, but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to cleanse us of all.

Complicated Catholic theology keeps bumping in to simple Biblical truth in some places to me.

Take into account all of scripture:

John 20:22- Jesus institutes confession by giving the apostles the authority
James 5:16- confess your sins in the Church
Matthew 18.18- Jesus again gives the authority to bind and loose
1 Tim 3:15- the Church is the pillar of truth

The Didache shows people confessed at the church from very early in church history

 

[1ke]

I have, but it isn’t that easy. It may result in the break up of my marriage, which would negatively affect the life of my son, as well as what little faith my wife currently has in Jesus. God hates divorce, so I am looking at ways to go about my situation in a wise and delicate matter.

That is a difficult situation. I pray that in this year of mercy, your wife’s heart will be softened towards your desire to enter full communion with the Church.

 

[1ke]

As I understand it, I have obligation to attend the RCC on Sunday, especially on certain days of the year, otherwise I’m committing grave/mortal sins.

I thought it would go well for me to convert, but still remain active and a participant with the japanese church we currently attend for her sake and out of love for her, and to avoid any divisions, lest my marriage be destroyed and her faith along with it. .

Yes, you do need to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, but most churches (unless you are in a rural area) have numerous masses to choose from including Saturday evening, Sunday early morning, Sunday evening. Look into local parish mass times and you may be pleasantly surprised that you can attend mass at one of those times and still go with your wife to her community.

 

[Markie_Boy]

James 5:16 says to confess your sins to one another. This does not imply a priest to me - but more to confess to those you have wronged.

Seems in line with the teaching in Mathew 6:14 that if we forgive those that sin against us, our heavenly Father will forgive our sins, but if we don’t forgive others, He will not forgive our sins.

I believe we should confess in the church, and outside of the church - to whom ever we have wronged, as much as is possible.

 

[Teabag]

I am sure one can confess to God directly on ones death bed even if there is no priest around.

 

[1ke]

I am just going to have to go with what Jesus taught in the Lord’s Prayer. It is perfect because he is perfect.

He showed us how to pray, and asking forgiveness was part of that, along with forgiving others.

I just don’t see anything that convinces me that one should confess to a priest, rather than directly to God.

John 20: 21-23 is pretty clear to me.

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

And the 1 John 1:9 verse also negates purgatory to me.

I think it supports it rather than negates it. It says we will be cleansed, it doesn’t say when or how. Purgation is cleansing.

I also think 1 Corinthians 3:15 points to this, “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire”

Complicated Catholic theology keeps bumping in to simple Biblical truth in some places to me.

I think “complicated” is an overstatement. I have never found anything to be complicated. I converted at age 25.

Edited to add:

I think the most complicated thing for some non-Catholics is to get over the Sola Scriptura hump. I think that if you study carefully how the New Testament church actually operated and functioned from the beginning you can get there. Especially looking at the church of around 100-150 AD when the Apostles had died and the second and third generation bishops were charged with leading the church-- Irenaus, Polycarp, Clement, and others.

It was not based on a book. It was based on preaching, teaching, and handing on the traditions and the celebration of the Mass orally. Some of it was written down, as we are told by St Paul himself: hold fast to the traditions you have been given, either in writing or orally.

 

[mattp0625]

James 5:16 says to confess your sins to one another. This does not imply a priest to me - but more to confess to those you have wronged.

Seems in line with the teaching in Mathew 6:14 that if we forgive those that sin against us, our heavenly Father will forgive our sins, but if we don’t forgive others, He will not forgive our sins.

I believe we should confess in the church, and outside of the church - to whom ever we have wronged, as much as is possible.

You’re right, James does not specifically mention a priest. However, verse 14 puts confession and the anointing of the sick within the context of the church.

There are also several scriptures that discuss the priesthood.

Yes, you can pray for forgiveness, but your viewpoint still ignores other parts of scripture (some of which are mentioned above) to arrive at the intended Protestant conclusion. It also ignores history of the Church from the very beginning.

Catholic Church accounts for all of scripture to arrive at its conclusions.

Protestants tend to focus on a few passages and apply a specific meaning (fundamental interpretation) while ignoring other scriptures that prove to be problematic, otherwise known as proof texting.

All scripture is God breathed (2 Tim 3:16).

 

[Markie_Boy]

I hear you - I know that grabbing one verse alone can be misleading. That’s the thing that made me not OK with some protestant teaching - and I am working on that.

But I really can’t believe that one can not confess direct to God, when it is in the Lord’s prayer.

 

[mattp0625]

I hear you - I know that grabbing one verse alone can be misleading. That’s the thing that made me not OK with some protestant teaching - and I am working on that.

But I really can’t believe that one can not confess direct to God, when it is in the Lord’s prayer.

That’s awesome !

We do both! We recite the Lord’s Prayer and go to confession. Wouldn’t you want more opportunity for graces rather than fewer? Especially when the risen Jesus gave the Church the authority?

I highly recommend researching early church history:
Ignatius of Antioch- first century bishop where the Christians were first called Christians (Acts 11) and the Didache.

Wikipedia will give a general overview while earlychristianwritings.com gives you the actual writings.

I know Protestants tend to view these things with suspicion, but these historical writings will show you the Catholic Church from the beginning.

 

[1ke]

But I really can’t believe that one can not confess direct to God, when it is in the Lord’s prayer.

You seem to be setting up as either/or. It’s both/and.

 

[beckie_clark]

yes you can and should but the ordinary means are confession to a priest. and is required at least once a year during easter time sronly suggested at least once a month any priest can confirm it:thumbsup:

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Yes, you do need to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, but most churches (unless you are in a rural area) have numerous masses to choose from including Saturday evening, Sunday early morning, Sunday evening. Look into local parish mass times and you may be pleasantly surprised that you can attend mass at one of those times and still go with your wife to her community.

Thank you for keeping me in your prayer. I want to go about my situation as best as possible.

Although I recognize and understand and know there is flexibility permitted for a roman catholic, Is it permitable to attend mass on any day of the week at any time and then sometimes go with her to have fellowship with the japanese community at the japanese church and sometimes go to the Roman Catholic church mass? I’m not trying to make an excuse not to attend, just trying to strike a balance.

 

[1ke]

Thank you for keeping me in your prayer. I want to go about my situation as best as possible.

Although I recognize and understand and know there is flexibility permitted for a roman catholic, Is it permitable to attend mass on any day of the week at any time and then sometimes go with her to have fellowship with the japanese community at the japanese church and sometimes go to the Roman Catholic church mass? I’m not trying to make an excuse not to attend, just trying to strike a balance.

You will need to go to Catholic mass every Sunday and Holy Day (in the US there are only about 5 of those and sometimes they are transferred to Sunday depending on what day of the week they fall on in that year), either on the day or the evening before, unless your pastor dispenses you on occasion.

So, no, you could not go on Tuesday, for example, to meet the Sunday obligation. Of course, you are always welcome to go to daily mass on other days in addition to Sunday mass.

You can go to Sunday mass on Saturday evening or Sunday AND go your wife’s Japanese community on Sunday or other days, but cannot go to your wife’s community *instead of *Mass.

Hope that helps.

 

[Markie_Boy]

You seem to be setting up as either/or. It’s both/and.

I am good with both. If I was wrong to suppose either/or, and it is both/and - I would be happily educated today!

It seems like most of the teaching I was exposed to focused just on the confession to a priest.

 

[hu324b]

The Lords prayer is more about teaching us to forgive others first before asking for forgiveness ourselves.This prayer teaches us how to ask God for the things we really need, the things that matter not only for the present but for eternity as well.

Consider what John Cassian (360-435 AD), an early church father who lived for several years with the monks in Bethlehem and Egypt before founding a monastery in southern Gaul, wrote about the Lord’s Prayer and the necessity of forgiving one another from the heart:

“The mercy of God is beyond description. While he is offering us a model prayer he is teaching us a way of life whereby we can be pleasing in his sight. But that is not all. In this same prayer he gives us an easy method for attracting an indulgent and merciful judgment on our lives. He gives us the possibility of ourselves mitigating the sentence hanging over us and of compelling him to pardon us. What else could he do in the face of our generosity when we ask him to forgive us as we have forgiven our neighbor? If we are faithful in this prayer, each of us will ask forgiveness for our own failings after we have forgiven the sins of those who have sinned against us, not only those who have sinned against our Master. There is, in fact, in some of us a very bad habit. We treat our sins against God, however appalling, with gentle indulgence - but when by contrast it is a matter of sins against us ourselves, albeit very tiny ones, we exact reparation with ruthless severity. Anyone who has not forgiven from the bottom of the heart the brother or sister who has done him wrong will only obtain from this prayer his own condemnation, rather than any mercy.”

Wise words.

From: Daily Reading & Meditation

www.dailyscripture.net

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Certainly. In fact, we do just that every time we say the Lord’s Prayer. And such dialog with God in our personal prayer time is a good thing.

However Catholics are also obligated to sacramentally confess mortal sins.

And we confess to God our sins in the person of the priest. Remember what Jesus said on Easter Sunday to the apostles?

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

What an interesting turn of events today. My wife and I had a talk. She is respecting my decision to convert to Roman Catholicism. She even suggested that my son could even join me, though she isn’t sure if she’ll convert. Tomorrow, I head off to the local parish in my area to have a face-to-face talk with one of the priests, or church staff, is possible. I may need to book an appointment.

I’ll admit, I never in my entire life believed this day would come. Never. I thought I’d be a protestant to the day I die, and then some. I’m still in shock. Just taking it all in.