Confession to priests

[nicolep]

I’m sorry! I didn’t mean “lengthy” in a bad way at all. I was quite glad you took the time to write what you did.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Brothers do not hear confession; consecrated Monks can hear confession. All monks are not consecrated.

I asked a Brother in the Benedictine order about this.

I really just wanted to know when confession to a priest began. We are forgiven our Original sin at Baptism, but is that an actual confession?

All religious who take vows are consecrated religious.

Consecrated does mean to make Holy, religious are “made” Holy by the taking of the vows. The Evangelical Counsels.

Holy Orders does not make a religious consecrated. A religious is already consecrated when they are ordained.

 

[RyanBlack]

How and when do you feel the Sacrament came into being? Was it not Christ who said go and forgve sins?

The present form of the sacrament of confession did in fact develop over time, and there were multiple aspects of that development.

For one, in the very early Church, at least in some places, confession was public, not private. However, as one can easily imagine, that led to serious problems, so that led to the need to private confession.

Another aspect concerns the development of which particular sins required private, sacramental confession. At some point, again, at least in some places, the sins that required private, sacramental confession were adultery, apostasy, and murder. However, the understanding of what costitutes mortal sins requiring sacramental confession grew over time, as did the theology concerning grave matter, knowledge, and consent of the will. (As an Eastern Catholic, I will point out that in the East, we do not put as much emphasis on distinctions between mortal and venial sins, and tend to avoid the language; however, we certainly recognize that some sins are more serious than others).

Also, there was the development of the imposition of penances. Irish monasticism, which employed penitential manuals, played an important role in this.

Of course, it is not my intent to deny that confession was instituted by Christ. However, it is widely excepted that the form of the sacrament and teachings concerning the sacrament have developed over time.

 

[rinnie]

I think I’ve been plenty clear about my point. I said “the way we know it now”. It had to be developed. It had to be taught. You know exactly what I mean. I also made it quite clear that I know it was Christ who gave the authority.

I wanted to know when it happened. Not the authority to do so. Not when confession was originally taught in the Church, but when the CURRENT way started. I have no idea or I wouldn’t have asked!

Well if you were plenty clear I sure missed it. But I still do not see where the Sacrament of Confession really changed. Maybe you confess in private now but it is still a Priest giving you forgiveness for your sins by you confessing by word of mouth.

And I did not know exactly what you meant, there is no reason to be so rude.

 

[rinnie]

You are right that to consecrate something is to make it holy, but it is not synonymous with Holy Orders. For example, a bishop consecrates the sacred chrism at the Chrism Mass every Holy Week; a priest consecrates the Eucharist; etc. And religious brothers and sisters are also often refered to as “consecrated” as they too are set apart for special service to God.

You could say that a priest is consecrated when he is ordained, but that’s not the only type of consecration.

But here is where I am confused Joe. I read that Priests in a vow is called Father. Thats a no brainer we know that.

But now I real that there are men who are in vows that are not Priest’s and they are called brothers. I guess certain kind of Monks or something.

Now here is where I am confused. Can’t only a Priest forgvie our sins?

 

[rinnie]

The present form of the sacrament of confession did in fact develop over time, and there were multiple aspects of that development.

For one, in the very early Church, at least in some places, confession was public, not private. However, as one can easily imagine, that led to serious problems, so that led to the need to private confession.

Another aspect concerns the development of which particular sins required private, sacramental confession. At some point, again, at least in some places, the sins that required private, sacramental confession were adultery, apostasy, and murder. However, the understanding of what costitutes mortal sins requiring sacramental confession grew over time, as did the theology concerning grave matter, knowledge, and consent of the will. (As an Eastern Catholic, I will point out that in the East, we do not put as much emphasis on distinctions between mortal and venial sins, and tend to avoid the language; however, we certainly recognize that some sins are more serious than others).

Also, there was the development of the imposition of penances. Irish monasticism, which employed penitential manuals, played an important role in this.

Of course, it is not my intent to deny that confession was instituted by Christ. However, it is widely excepted that the form of the sacrament and teachings concerning the sacrament have developed over time.

I agree Ryan.

 

[rinnie]

Brothers do not hear confession; consecrated Monks can hear confession. All monks are not consecrated.

I asked a Brother in the Benedictine order about this.

I really just wanted to know when confession to a priest began. We are forgiven our Original sin at Baptism, but is that an actual confession?

Hi GKCT now this would make more sense to me. Now about Baptism being an actual confession at Baptism that would depend when.

For myself I was Baptised at birth so all I was guilty of was original sin.

But my Uncle was deep into his 60’s when he became Baptised so he at to do an actual confession before Baptism. This is the difference you will see in the Church at RCIA.

Like my husband was baptised so he only needed Confirmation Confession and Communion. My Uncle received all of the above at one time.

But what alot of People do not realize it is because of Baptism forgiveness of sins is even possible. It all ties into the cross. Many Protestants as I said before do not understand this at all. They do not understand that w/o baptism we could not enter heaven because of Original Sin. But I don’t to make this into OS we all I am sure understand that.

 

[rinnie]

Here is what I have just learned.

A monk can hear a confession but must always refer the Penitent to a Priest for Absolution. A Lay Monk does not have the authority to grant absolution.

This Grace is only given to those Ordained by the Laying Of Hand by Apostolic Succession.

 

[Joe_5859]

But here is where I am confused Joe. I read that Priests in a vow is called Father. Thats a no brainer we know that.

But now I real that there are men who are in vows that are not Priest’s and they are called brothers. I guess certain kind of Monks or something.

Now here is where I am confused. Can’t only a Priest forgvie our sins?

Actually, properly speaking, diocesan priests (also referred to as secular priests in Church lingo) do not take vows. They make promises. They promise obedience to their bishop and his successors.

Religious order priests and brothers (and sisters) – like the Franciscans, etc. – make vows.

Where’s Brother JR? He’d explain it much better than me.

 

[nicolep]

Well if you were plenty clear I sure missed it. But I still do not see where the Sacrament of Confession really changed. Maybe you confess in private now but it is still a Priest giving you forgiveness for your sins by you confessing by word of mouth.

And I did not know exactly what you meant, there is no reason to be so rude.

LOL I wasn’t being rude. I just restated the same thing so many times I was trying to make it clearer.

 

[nicolep]

Hi GKCT now this would make more sense to me. Now about Baptism being an actual confession at Baptism that would depend when.

For myself I was Baptized at birth so all I was guilty of was original sin.

But my Uncle was deep into his 60’s when he became Baptized so he at to do an actual confession before Baptism. This is the difference you will see in the Church at RCIA.

Like my husband was baptized so he only needed Confirmation Confession and Communion. My Uncle received all of the above at one time.

But what alot of People do not realize it is because of Baptism forgiveness of sins is even possible. It all ties into the cross. Many Protestants as I said before do not understand this at all. They do not understand that w/o baptism we could not enter heaven because of Original Sin. But I don’t to make this into OS we all I am sure understand that.

Your uncle had to go to confession before baptism? I was baptized as an adult (after going through RCIA) and didn’t need confession beforehand because baptism removes all sin, not just original sin.

I was under the impression that only those who were validly baptized needed to go to confession before confirmation and first Communion.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Your uncle had to go to confession before baptism? I was baptized as an adult (after going through RCIA) and didn’t need confession beforehand because baptism removes all sin, not just original sin.

I was under the impression that only those who were validly baptized needed to go to confession before confirmation and first Communion.

If the baptism was a conditional baptism then confession would be done before it.

 

[rinnie]

Your uncle had to go to confession before baptism? I was baptized as an adult (after going through RCIA) and didn’t need confession beforehand because baptism removes all sin, not just original sin.

I was under the impression that only those who were validly baptized needed to go to confession before confirmation and first Communion.

You are right! But here is why. He thought he was baptised but was not sure. So I guess Father did the best thing that he could figure out.

But you are correct if you were never Baptised you can get away w/o confession because it wipes out Actual and Original sin w/o confession.

I guess that way Father did it, it couldn’t have hurt thats for sure. But I do know you can only be baptised once. And the way I understand as long as it is in the name of the Trinity its Valid.

 

[rinnie]

Actually, properly speaking, diocesan priests (also referred to as secular priests in Church lingo) do not take vows. They make promises. They promise obedience to their bishop and his successors.

Religious order priests and brothers (and sisters) – like the Franciscans, etc. – make vows.

Where’s Brother JR? He’d explain it much better than me.

Yes I understand that Joe, but my point is they can do certain things but from what I understand Holy Orders is a must to give Absolution.

 

[nicolep]

You are right! But here is why. He thought he was baptised but was not sure. So I guess Father did the best thing that he could figure out.

But you are correct if you were never Baptised you can get away w/o confession because it wipes out Actual and Original sin w/o confession.

I guess that way Father did it, it couldn’t have hurt thats for sure. But I do know you can only be baptised once. And the way I understand as long as it is in the name of the Trinity its Valid.

Now that makes sense. I didn’t think about a conditional baptism.

 

[GKCT]

I must thank MOMS for answering the question that I posted. She was the only one who actually knew what I meant.