Confession Validity

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adm91

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If a priest does not say the entire Prayer of Absolution, just “I forgive you of all your sins” followed by the sign of the cross, is the Sacrament still valid? Penance was given and all… Thoughts?
 
adm91 said:
If a priest does not say the entire Prayer of Absolution, just “I forgive you of all your sins” followed by the sign of the cross, is the Sacrament still valid? Penance was given and all… Thoughts?
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Yes, it is! The sentence,“I forgive you of all your sins” followed by the sign of the cross" and The Sign of the Cross to signify that he is doing so in Jesus Holy Name.That is the most important. If he were to withhold those words, then there is big,big, cause for alarm!
 
adm91 said:
If a priest does not say the entire Prayer of Absolution, just “I forgive you of all your sins” followed by the sign of the cross, is the Sacrament still valid? Penance was given and all… Thoughts?
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Yes it is valid. The validilty of the Sacrament is always determined by your own confession. Try not to get involve with wording as if that is the criteria for validity. Even if the priest does not give you penance it will still be valid.
 
It is my understanding that the absolution is only valid if it includes these words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. :confused:
 
Snugglebugmom said:
It is my understanding that the absolution is only valid if it includes these words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. :confused:
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That’s my understanding as well. But I can hardly hold a person accountable if the priest should know better. I’ve been to priests who say “forgive” instead of “absolve” and I leave that up to God. I did my part with greatest intentions.
 
DavidKays said:
Yes it is valid. The validilty of the Sacrament is always determined by your own confession. Try not to get involve with wording as if that is the criteria for validity. Even if the priest does not give you penance it will still be valid.
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Actually every sacrament has proper form and matter. The proper form for this Sacrament are the words of absolution so they are very important. It would be the same for the words of consecration, baptism and so forth…
 
DavidKays said:
The validilty of the Sacrament is always determined by your own confession. Try not to get involve with wording as if that is the criteria for validity. Even if the priest does not give you penance it will still be valid.
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This is actually not the case. The validity of a confession is not always determined by your own confession…the words of absolution must be valid words…if the words of absolution are not valid there was no absolution. For a valid sacrament of confession both the Priest and the Penitent are involved.
 
If such happened to me…I would tell the Priest…excuse me Father …you said “I forgive you” not “I absolve you”…

I would not leave it at the “I forgive you”…

I have had a elderly priest once say " I bless you"…I let him know and he said the right form then…he was just having a “senior moment”.

“I bless you” would give a blessing not absolution…

A priest should always use the formula given by the Church… but I think it can be said that one that does not change the essential meaning of the form does not usually invalidate a sacrament…but in the case of “I bless you” it would not be valid for it certainly changes the meaning!

As to the form “I forgive you” …I personally would want to follow up on that…for I have seen at least one reliable source that would say that such would be probably or certainly invalid…(such was noted by the a Theologian over at EWTN)

but then again there can be perhaps differing opinions among theologians…etc

Also if a Priest is using such a form …a call to the Bishop can be in order…for he should not be doing so…
 
Bookcat said:
This is actually not the case. The validity of a confession is not always determined by your own confession…the words of absolution must be valid words…if the words of absolution are not valid there was no absolution. For a valid sacrament of confession both the Priest and the Penitent are involved.
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I was not concerned about the priest. I am sure he is trained in his field. I do not think we are to get bogged down on the actual words. I have been to confessions in both Eastern and Western Churches so there is plenty of variety there. But I was concern more on the penitent then the priest. If your confession becomes invalid it tends to be more your fault then the priest. However if a priest is going on his own and not addressing proper procedure then ok that needs to be addressed. But I do not see that here. The priest acts in persona of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The words in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit while it used mainly in the Roman Rite is not used in the Eastern Rite in some Eastern Churches. It is not necessary to be bogged down on the actual words. That is all that I was addressing. Roman Catholics tend to deal with one formula and that is great but if you are only use to one and not the others then yes it can be disturbing to some when the priest may be using one different than the one you are use to. All I was addressing was that this man was a priest who is ordained to become another Christ. May be you are not use to other formulas so address that to the priest. But I can’t see this here. A priest can absolve because of his office. He is not bound to just 1 formula but he may use whatever formulas that are approved. I am sure priests are more knowledgable than we are in this field. If the priest absolves you using the words " I absolve you… " he can do that because he represents in persona Our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe too many Catholics can get down on the wording then the actual form of Grace which is the priest and your confession. It is like your Communion services. I am Greek Orthodox who has attended plenty of Roman Catholic Masses. While your Masses are valid they tend to be missing alot in the actual words of consecration. I mean to an Orthodox. We have the prayer to the Holy Spirit called the explesis which validates our Communions. While you do not have that in the Rite of the Roman Catholic Church that does mean it is not valid. Get my picture! The Consecration is still valid in your Rite. Why? It is because of the validilty of the Office of your priest. While we the Orthodox contain alot more in the prayer of consecration I do not see the Roman Rite as invalid just because there are some elements that we have in ours missing in theirs. All rites are approved rites and all can make the change of the species into the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Even the confessional rites in some Eastern Churches is the same formula as descibed here in this post. What makes the rite possible. The priest.
 
DavidKays said:
I was not concerned about the priest. I am sure he is trained in his field. I do not think we are to get bogged down on the actual words. I have been to confessions in both Eastern and Western Churches so there is plenty of variety there. But I was concern more on the penitent then the priest. If your confession becomes invalid it tends to be more your fault then the priest. However if a priest is going on his own and not addressing proper procedure then ok that needs to be addressed. But I do not see that here. The priest acts in persona of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The words in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit while it used mainly in the Roman Rite is not used in the Eastern Rite in some Eastern Churches. It is not necessary to be bogged down on the actual words.
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The form of the absolution is very important. Certain changes can invalidate it.

In the ordinary form of the Roman Rite there is only ONE permitted Form (though it can happen that the introductory part can be omitted for a good reason).

In the various Eastern Churches of the Catholic Church…there are other forms that may be used in those rites.

A Catholic Priest is not to depart from the permitted form in his rite…(sometimes such is innocently done)…
 
=adm91;7507278]If a priest does not say the entire Prayer of Absolution, just “I forgive you of all your sins” followed by the sign of the cross, is the Sacrament still valid? Penance was given and all… Thoughts?
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It would be not licit, but still valid by virtue of youe entent to Confess ALL, and the priest entent to forgive ALL.

IF it happens more than once you might wish to discus the mtter with him?

God Bless,
Pat
 
Bookcat said:
The form of the absolution is very important. Certain changes can invalidate it.

In the ordinary form of the Roman Rite there is only ONE permitted Form (though it can happen that the introductory part can be omitted for a good reason).

In the various Eastern Churches of the Catholic Church…there are other forms that may be used in those rites.

A Catholic Priest is not to depart from the permitted form in his rite…(sometimes such is innocently done)…
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Forget it. I was only addressing a point. Take the case to a canon law priest and you will see that I am right. A Catholic priest is a priest that can forgive sins. Period! Don’t be bogged down on the rubrics. The Grace will occur for the pentitent even though there was something left out in the rubrics. I find too many Catholics like this and it the same for the Orthodox. God’s Graces in this Sacrament is not determined by whatever rubrics is set forth. Can’t you understand that these forms or rites are just the pattern to follow but they need not to be followed exaltly in detailed. The Rubrics are put down as a pattern to follow but a priest can simplify it or use the bare minimal to grant you absolution. The point I was trying to make is this person is questioning the absolution of his sins because of certain ommissions in the priest’s words and I believe the priest has done his part in granting absolution. That is all. God’s Mercy is not determined by the exact wording put out in the Confessional. But some people believe this to be. If it bothers you or the person then go to another priest. What really counts is your confession and the priest witnessing to it. All these Rites for the Confessional are only guidelines. Some prefer the exact words and some do not.
 
Here is a theoretical question. If a priest meant to say the correct formula (for absolution, baptism, etc) but for whatever reason messed up the words and did not realize it, would the sacrament still be valid?
 
Mr.Blank1.5 said:
Here is a theoretical question. If a priest meant to say the correct formula (for absolution, baptism, etc) but for whatever reason messed up the words and did not realize it, would the sacrament still be valid?
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In my opinion, yes the confession is still valid. As long as I have truthfully and repentantly confessed my sins, I leave the confessional forgiven.
 
DavidKays said:
Forget it. I was only addressing a point. Take the case to a canon law priest and you will see that I am right. A Catholic priest is a priest that can forgive sins. Period! Don’t be bogged down on the rubrics.
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It is not only about rubrics…there can be a departure from the correct form which will render the sacrament invalid. I have a degree in Catholic Theology and am not pulling this from a hat.
 
Mr.Blank1.5 said:
Here is a theoretical question. If a priest meant to say the correct formula (for absolution, baptism, etc) but for whatever reason messed up the words and did not realize it, would the sacrament still be valid?
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It depends on what the error was.

Like for example the time I went to the elderly Priest who said “I bless you in the name of …” instead of “I absolve you”…such would be invalid and no absolution would occur.

Now if the penitent did not realize this had happened…God would take such into account…(and in his next confession …such would be absolved indirectly)

but if he realizes this…he should let the Priest know so he will give him actual absolution.
 
It depends on what the error was.
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Like for example the time I went to the elderly Priest who said “I bless you in the name of …” instead of “I absolve you”…such would be invalid and no absolution would occur.
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Now if the penitent did not realize this had happened…God would take such into account…(and in his next confession …such would be absolved indirectly)
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but if he realizes this…he should let the Priest know so he will give him actual absolution.
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I was wondering about this because this thought came into my mind: what if someone was baptized incorrectly and no one noticed?
 
Mr.Blank1.5 said:
I was wondering about this because this thought came into my mind: what if someone was baptized incorrectly and no one noticed?
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This has happened…and when later was discovered…the persons or parents were notified so they could be validly baptized. Such of course would be rare in Catholic settings…but on occasion you could get some really odd situation.

God of course if such is never discovered…can give the person the life of grace at least…for he is not “bound by the sacraments”…

but if such is discovered…the Sacrament needs to be given.
 
=Mr.Blank1.5;7509740]Here is a theoretical question. If a priest meant to say the correct formula (for absolution, baptism, etc) but for whatever reason messed up the words and did not realize it, would the sacrament still be valid?
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YES
 
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