P
Pete_1
Guest
I know we are oblidged to confess past mortal sins, but are we obliged to confess actions that were grave matter but you did not know so at the time?
thanks,
thanks,
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
THurifer2
Guest
this is where the full knowledge debate comes into play. You will get mixed messages from this forum. Even canon lawyers argue about his.I know we are oblidged to confess past mortal sins, but are we obliged to confess actions that were grave matter but you did not know so at the time?
thanks,
The debate is does full knowledge mean that one is aware that somthing is a sin or does full knowledge also add the requirement that the sinner must be aware the matter is grave.
I personally think the latter gives wayward souls an out for willingly ignoring the spirit and allowing for a poorly formed conscience…the conscience is a pupil not a teacher…and the individual should take full blame themselves for a poorly formed conscience. EVERYONE recieves grace…not everyone accepts and answers grace.
One does not have to be a Catholic to be in Mortal sin.
P
Pete_1
Guest
Ok then saying you did not know whatsoever that the action was wrong (notice I did not say sinfull), would you still be obliged to confess?this is where the full knowledge debate comes into play. You will get mixed messages from this forum. Even canon lawyers argue about his.
The debate is does full knowledge mean that one is aware that somthing is a sin or does full knowledge also add the requirement that the sinner must be aware the matter is grave.
I personally think the latter gives wayward souls an out for willingly ignoring the spirit and allowing for a poorly formed conscience…the conscience is a pupil not a teacher…and the individual should take full blame themselves for a poorly formed conscience. EVERYONE recieves grace…not everyone accepts and answers grace.
One does not have to be a Catholic to be in Mortal sin.
P
Pamela86
Guest
Anything that is on my conscience that I did today or if I thought of something years ago, I would still confess it. It better to recieve communion with a clear conscience than to worry that you might be recieving with a sin on your soul.
C
Claire_from_DE
Guest
If the action was something you thought was no sin at all, there would be no need to confess it.
If you thought it was a venial sin, and have been to confession since then but didn’t confess it, it has already been forgiven and there would be no need to confess.
If it troubles your conscience and you are feeling repentance for it, tell the priest that you did it without knowing at the time it was wrong but now that you know it, you regret doing it.
The only actions of this kind that I can think of offhand would be masturbation or abortion. The first can begin when one has no knowledge that it’s wrong and the second can happen to someone who has had no religious upbringing and at the time accepts the secular view. I can’t even imagine what else could be a mortal sin but a person wouldn’t know it.
If you thought it was a venial sin, and have been to confession since then but didn’t confess it, it has already been forgiven and there would be no need to confess.
If it troubles your conscience and you are feeling repentance for it, tell the priest that you did it without knowing at the time it was wrong but now that you know it, you regret doing it.
The only actions of this kind that I can think of offhand would be masturbation or abortion. The first can begin when one has no knowledge that it’s wrong and the second can happen to someone who has had no religious upbringing and at the time accepts the secular view. I can’t even imagine what else could be a mortal sin but a person wouldn’t know it.
T
THurifer2
Guest
I have talked to women who were in that boat and even though they marching along with the secular world they knew at the time they were doing somthing seriously wrong…the second can happen to someone who has had no religious upbringing and at the time accepts the secular view. I can’t even imagine what else could be a mortal sin but a person wouldn’t know it.
It would take a siginificantly jaded conscience to not realize they were not doing somthing seriously wrong…there are thousands if not Millions of women out there who have been traumatized by having an abortion…the heart of hearts speaks very loudly on this one.
Masterbation is in this boat too. Even when youngsters are told that it is “normal” and “healthy” they don’t go around telling people that they do/did it…one has to know why there there is shame present in the Matter…if there was no shame with the matter then kids would have no problem letting people know that they do it.
Although I do agree with you to some extent Masturbation can be a venial matter since society has brainwashed us into freudian thought. However, the presence of shame makes one wonder if those who do it don’t know its gravely wrong…otherwise people would be frank and open about it…
J
John_Hiner
Guest
Laudatur Iesus Christus.
It seems strange to estimate Penance in terms of the minimum “requirements.” It is unclear what this sort of analysis betokens as one’s intention in the Sacrament.
It might be helpful to consider the matter this way: Life is a prayer. Every gesture, action, word, or silence is a message to God. If one is baptized, confirmed, and in a state of grace, one’s life is a prayer from God the Son to God the Father. If one sins venially, one mixes the message of one’s prayer. By sometimes expressing Christ’s love, but mixing this with expressions of indifference or divided intentions, the message becomes diffuse and ambiguous. The meaning of the prayer is undermined or weakened.
If one does or says something *incompatible *with Christ’s love, one ceases to be an expression of Christ’s love at all. The grace, which is the flow of love between the Father and the Son through the Christian, is killed. This is mortal sin. Once this happens, even if one corrects one’s ways, at best one becomes an expression of one’s own love for the Father. This is insufficient, since it is Christ’s love and not human love for God which saves.
Prayer is a combination of actions or words with intentions. If one does something, but does not intend it as a prayer, it is not – one can repeat even the Our Father mechanically and have it fail to be a prayer. However, even the slightest gesture, planting a seedling, smiling at a child, or cleaning a window, can be a fitting prayer, if it is done with an intention to be perfect and to love and praise the Father as Christ wills.
The Sacrament of Penance is a great gift. It is the opportunity for fallible and inconstant man to reflect carefully on his past actions and intentions and to AMEND his intentions to make them fitting messages to God. In this Sacrament, one can disavow any gesture, action, or word that did not perfectly express Jesus’ love for the Father and explicitly declare to Christ that, in spite of how he actually behaved, one now intends to conform to the will of Christ and to properly reflect Christ’s prayer to the Father. Through the counsel of Christ’s representative one is aided in these corrections.
Through absolution Christ accepts these amendments and certifies the corrected intentions as expressions of His love for the Father. If one has sinned mortally, this acceptance re-designates one as a token of Christ’s personal love for the Father, and thus restores one to the state of grace. In this sense, when one leaves the Confessional, one’s life as an expression of Christ’s prayer to the Father has been corrected, edited, brought into line with Christ’s will, and thus readied for presentation to the Father at the Holy Mass.
Hence, the question need not be one of whether some particular sin was mortal or venial, covered or not covered. Rather, the effort in Confession ought be to do in retrospect what one failed to do in the heat of the moment, when one acted, spoke, failed to act, or failed to speak. If an action or gesture has not been offered as a fitting expression of Christ’s love, then confess it and declare one’s intention to so offer it or to retract its offensive meaning, so that one’s love for God can be clear and unambiguous, when it is offered to the Most Holy Trinity in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Confession is the means Christ has provided for us to “be perfect.” It should not be degraded by being used as a means to be “minimally acceptable.”
Pax Christi nobiscum.
John Hiner
It seems strange to estimate Penance in terms of the minimum “requirements.” It is unclear what this sort of analysis betokens as one’s intention in the Sacrament.
It might be helpful to consider the matter this way: Life is a prayer. Every gesture, action, word, or silence is a message to God. If one is baptized, confirmed, and in a state of grace, one’s life is a prayer from God the Son to God the Father. If one sins venially, one mixes the message of one’s prayer. By sometimes expressing Christ’s love, but mixing this with expressions of indifference or divided intentions, the message becomes diffuse and ambiguous. The meaning of the prayer is undermined or weakened.
If one does or says something *incompatible *with Christ’s love, one ceases to be an expression of Christ’s love at all. The grace, which is the flow of love between the Father and the Son through the Christian, is killed. This is mortal sin. Once this happens, even if one corrects one’s ways, at best one becomes an expression of one’s own love for the Father. This is insufficient, since it is Christ’s love and not human love for God which saves.
Prayer is a combination of actions or words with intentions. If one does something, but does not intend it as a prayer, it is not – one can repeat even the Our Father mechanically and have it fail to be a prayer. However, even the slightest gesture, planting a seedling, smiling at a child, or cleaning a window, can be a fitting prayer, if it is done with an intention to be perfect and to love and praise the Father as Christ wills.
The Sacrament of Penance is a great gift. It is the opportunity for fallible and inconstant man to reflect carefully on his past actions and intentions and to AMEND his intentions to make them fitting messages to God. In this Sacrament, one can disavow any gesture, action, or word that did not perfectly express Jesus’ love for the Father and explicitly declare to Christ that, in spite of how he actually behaved, one now intends to conform to the will of Christ and to properly reflect Christ’s prayer to the Father. Through the counsel of Christ’s representative one is aided in these corrections.
Through absolution Christ accepts these amendments and certifies the corrected intentions as expressions of His love for the Father. If one has sinned mortally, this acceptance re-designates one as a token of Christ’s personal love for the Father, and thus restores one to the state of grace. In this sense, when one leaves the Confessional, one’s life as an expression of Christ’s prayer to the Father has been corrected, edited, brought into line with Christ’s will, and thus readied for presentation to the Father at the Holy Mass.
Hence, the question need not be one of whether some particular sin was mortal or venial, covered or not covered. Rather, the effort in Confession ought be to do in retrospect what one failed to do in the heat of the moment, when one acted, spoke, failed to act, or failed to speak. If an action or gesture has not been offered as a fitting expression of Christ’s love, then confess it and declare one’s intention to so offer it or to retract its offensive meaning, so that one’s love for God can be clear and unambiguous, when it is offered to the Most Holy Trinity in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Confession is the means Christ has provided for us to “be perfect.” It should not be degraded by being used as a means to be “minimally acceptable.”
Pax Christi nobiscum.
John Hiner
A
Aramis
Guest
Obliged? in doubt.I know we are oblidged to confess past mortal sins, but are we obliged to confess actions that were grave matter but you did not know so at the time?
thanks,
Is it worth confessing? Absolutely… take no chances.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.