Confession

[Cathhsmom]

So it is absolutely imposible to hope that God, in his infinite wisdom and mercy, would ever forgive anyone who did not use the Sacrement?

I think you misunderstand the previous post. We can always hope for God’s forgiveness. BUT, to have assurance, we do what the Bible tells us to do. We go to the presbyters (priests) and confess our sins so that they can be loosed here on Earth and in Heaven. This is not for God, but for us. We are the ones who are sick and need the healing. God can do whatever He wants. We hope in His mercy that for those who do not know.

I hope this helps.

 

[sdtouchton]

Yes Please read this :

You Non catholics reject other scriptures eventhough Bible is inspired by God.

Leviticus 4:20, Leviticus 4:26, Leviticus 4:35, Leviticus 4:32, Leviticus 5:5-6, Leviticus 7:7, Leviticus 16:32, Leviticus 19:20-22, Numbers 6:11, Numbers 15:25, Numbers 15:28, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23, Matthew 10:40, 2Corinthians 5:17-20, 2Corinthians 2:10, Matthew 9:5-8

So According to these verses, yes confessing sins to man is allowed

 

[Maranatha33]

Yes Please read this :
You Non catholics reject other scriptures eventhough (the) Bible is inspired by God.

Accepting or rejecting other Scripture is depending on what they say, in context. Your Old Testament Scripture quotes do not take in account the differences between the Old and New, especially the differences in sacrifices.

Leviticus 4:20, Leviticus 4:26, Leviticus 4:35, Leviticus 4:32, Leviticus 5:5-6, Leviticus 7:7, Leviticus 16:32, Leviticus 19:20-22, Numbers 6:11, Numbers 15:25, Numbers 15:28, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23, Matthew 10:40, 2Corinthians 5:17-20, 2Corinthians 2:10, Matthew 9:5-8

**20 and do with this bull just as he did with the bull for the sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.
26 He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the man’s sin, and he will be forgiven.
**
The payment for sin was, and is, death. This is commonly referred to as the shedding of blood. Until Jesus, the Lamb of God, became man, this death was applied to animal sacrifices as an atonement for sin. Mostly bulls and sheep. And they had to be “without blemish.” (Just as our Lord is perfect.) Since the proceedure itself must have been in an exact manner, the high priest was the performer of said sacrifice. This, of course, changed when Jesus became man. Since Jesus is the only true and perfect sacrifice, the need for animals and priests to intercede in Christianity, disappeared.

** 32 " 'If he brings a lamb as his sin offering, he is to bring a female without defect.
35 He shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the lamb of the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar on top of the offerings made to the LORD by fire. In this way the priest will make atonement for him for the sin he has committed, and he will be forgiven.
5 " 'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned 6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
7 " 'The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.
32 The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest is to make atonement. He is to put on the sacred linen garments
20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.
11 The priest is to offer one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering to make atonement for him because he sinned by being in the presence of the dead body. That same day he is to consecrate his head.
25 The priest is to make atonement for the whole Israelite community, and they will be forgiven, for it was not intentional and they have brought to the LORD for their wrong an offering made by fire and a sin offering.
28 The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven.**

 

[Maranatha33]

**Psalm 51:16 (New International Version) A Psalm of David.

16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.**

Animal sacrifices, done by the High priest, were preformed only to fulfill God’s requirement of perfect justice. God takes no pleasure in seeing animals slaughtered then burnt, and the required ritual.

**18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven. **

This command was given to the Apostles by Jesus, as He sent them out to start on the great commission. This is specifically given to the apostles, just as raising the dead, and performing miracles./

40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

This statement by Jesus is in reference to accepting Him through the Gospel presentation. Accepting Jesus is accepting God the Father. There is no sign of intervention with a third party, just a presentation of the Good News to a new Christian, who is to have a personal relationship with Jesus, and as a result, with God the Father. Christians today are told to share the Gospel, but this does not mean that only a specific person or position can do this. Conversely, everyone is told to “Always be prepared to give a reason for the joy within you.” Jesus gives us the opportunity to be His instrament, but remember, He does not NEED us to do so. “Even the rocks will cry out.” Without even one person to witness, He can use rocks to declare His glory.

5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…" Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

This crowd, at this specific time, did not know that Jesus is divine. Jesus refers to Himself as “The Son of Man.” It was known then, as it should be now, that only the one who is offended can forgive. Sin is an offense against God. So when Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic and he was healed, the crowds were amazed that God had given His exclusive ability to men. They could not have known that Jesus is God, yet.

**20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
**
I dont understand why this verse was referenced.

21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

This again is a specific reference to the disciples. They were given the ability to forgive sins by Jesus as a miraculous testimony to those whom they were witnessing. This completely foreign idea ( of Jesus’ deity) to the Jews was an identification of Jesus being God, thus perpetuating the growth of the faith. (see Acts of the Apostles.)

**17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
**
These Scriptures specifically state that ONLY Christ is the way to reconcilliation. The disciples were given the task of passing the message as Christ’s ambassadors that man can be reconciled to God on Christ’s behalf, not theirs.

**10If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,
**
Paul was teaching the discipline of forgiveness. The gentiles to whom he is communicating, had no Scriptures, and virtually no knowledge of Christ. At this point, they relied on Paul for their education. The key is that it is done in the sight of Christ so the Corinthians could receive the benefits of forgiveness (for your sake.)

*“You Non catholics reject other scriptures eventhough Bible is inspired by God.”
*
That certainly sounds condescending. How about something like “Brothers and sisters in Christ, lets discuss this particular issue.” And considering your Scriptual references, you should know that you can not learn about Christianity by simply putting the word “priest” in a search engine.

*So According to these verses, yes confessing sins to man is allowed. *

So according to the contextual meaning of these Scriptures, the answer is still no. Once again…

**1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)

5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,**

Wonder why this verse refers to Christ Jesus in His humanity, not His deity? Maybe it is because He is making clear that the only “man” who can mediate between God and the sinner is Jesus. Just a thought.

 

[grannymh]

Other than invincible ignorance, please give me some example of the extraordinary circumstances you are referring too.

Thanks.

Dear expectthebest,

At my age, every day is extraordinary.

Allow me to answer your question regarding the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) and extraordinary circumstances by giving you a scenario which contains the basic elements for making a judgment call. Then, if you wish, you can shoot back some examples that come to mind and we will discuss them.

1. First thing is that we have to recognize that we have freely committed a grave, serious, mortal sin. This sin is a break in the relationship between the sinner and God. It is like the prodigal son leaving home and choosing a life style completely opposed to his father’s wishes.

2 Now we are in the same boat or rather sty as is the prodigal son. Because we love God, we desire to be reconciled with Him. Our desire is key. None of this “excuse me and I’ll be on my way” stuff. Our desire to be reconciled needs serious sorrow.

1. At this point, we are on our knees asking God for His forgiveness and mercy. We want to receive God’s Sacrament of Reconciliation as soon as possible. We are running home to the open arms of our Loving Father.
2. But, “as soon as possible” is not always immediate. Nonetheless, we plan to get to Confession at a scheduled time or to call a priest and make an appointment for Confession. It is essential that we don’t loose our focus on receiving God’s forgiveness. We remain in a state of sorrow.
3. Ordinarily, we can get to Confession. But, non-ordinary or extraordinary circumstances can happen. We slip on the ice, go into labor two weeks early, the priest gets appendicitis, however, winning the lotto does not count. Even though something beyond our control completely blocks us from getting to Confession, we still have the obligation to go when we are able. We keep our promise to go to Confession.
4. Suppose the non-ordinary or extraordinary circumstances is life-threatening. We may be facing God with a serious sin and there is no priest nearby. What about forgiveness? In our state of sorrow, we again ask God for His forgiveness and mercy. Most important, we do not underestimate the power of God to forgive us at this serious point. We place all our hope in God’s mercy and we trust that we will be reconciled to Him before death. If we should escape bodily death, then we are to fulfill the obligation to formally receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Blessings,
granny

All humanity belongs on their knees before God.

 

[grannymh]

Quote from Maranatha post 23
Accepting or rejecting other Scripture is depending on what they say, in context. Your Old Testament Scripture quotes do not take in account the differences between the Old and New, especially the differences in sacrifices.

I agree that the context is very important when reading Scripture. What about this idea as an explanation of the differences between the Old and New Testaments?
The Old is the promise of and preparation for Christ’s coming and the New, as the fulfillment of the promise, completes the preparation. Relating to that idea, what about seeing the sacrifices in the Old as prefiguring Christ’s sacrifice of the Cross? And then what about priests in the Old Testament foreshadowing Christ as priest. There is a saying that Christ was both priest and victim on the Cross.

Can my comments be seen as context?

Post 24
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

This again is a specific reference to the disciples. They were given the ability to forgive sins by Jesus as a miraculous testimony to those whom they were witnessing. This completely foreign idea ( of Jesus’ deity) to the Jews was an identification of Jesus being God, thus perpetuating the growth of the faith. (see Acts of the Apostles.)

Dear Maranatha,

Do you ever get the idea that John is very careful to put meanings and context of Jesus’ message into His gospel? For example John 20: 19-23 --the quotes given above. “As the Father has sent Me” is Jesus again identifying Himself as God. When John writes that, it is like a signal to us that we better pay attention to what is going on. I see this as the institution of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession).

Question: Why did Jesus say “Receive the Holy Spirit” right before He said “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them…” ? When the Coming of the Spirit is in Acts?
It seems to me, the answer is in the above with the reference to perpetuating the growth of the faith. Would you expand this idea? Just as there are two parts of the Bible, Old and New, do you see two parts to the New Testament, before the Resurrection and after?

1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)

5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Wonder why this verse refers to Christ Jesus in His humanity, not His deity? Maybe it is because He is making clear that the only “man” who can mediate between God and the sinner is Jesus. Just a thought.

I wondered the same thing…

Blessings,
granny

Lent is the time for all human beings to gather at the foot of Christ’s cross.

 

[Maranatha33]

*I agree that the context is very important when reading Scripture. What about this idea as an explanation of the differences between the Old and New Testaments?
The Old is the promise of and preparation for Christ’s coming and the New, as the fulfillment of the promise, completes the preparation. Relating to that idea, what about seeing the sacrifices in the Old as prefiguring Christ’s sacrifice of the Cross?
*
You are exactly correct regarding the Old Testament promises and the New Testament fulfillment.

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

As for “And then what about priests in the Old Testament foreshadowing Christ as priest. There is a saying that Christ was both priest and victim on the Cross.”

I don’t know. I can not think of any Scripture regarding this. Two thoughts come to mind, but they are ONLY my opinion.

1. Jesus was a Rabbi and a High Priest, but His Deity would seem to supercede any human with the same title. e.g… The Old Testament Priests offered sacrifices, Jesus was the sacrifice.
2. Jesus was the victim, possessor of the penalties of sins for all mankind, and propitiation for those sins. For the only time ever, He was seperated from God the Father. I don’t believe that this defines the roll of the priest, or rabbi, for that matter. But again, just an opinion.

*Do you ever get the idea that John is very careful to put meanings and context of Jesus’ message into His gospel? *

There is no doubt on John’s carefulness. All the disciples were. John did have some unique relations with Jesus.

1. John uniquely referred to himself as the “One that Jesus Loved.” Jesus loved them all. John was just being humble.
2. During the last supper, it was John who laid his head on Jesus’ chest.
3. On the cross, Jesus told John, the only disciple who didn’t run, that His mother Mary was to be John’s mother, and told His Mother, that John was to be her son.

Question: Why did Jesus say “Receive the Holy Spirit” right before He said “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them…” ? When the Coming of the Spirit is in Acts?

The apostles were given some abilities of Divinity by Jesus. I believe they were indwelt with The Holy Spirit so that God actually performed these miracles through His apostles.

It seems to me, the answer is in the above with the reference to perpetuating the growth of the faith. Would you expand this idea?

I don’t know how to say it any better than you just did.

Just as there are two parts of the Bible, Old and New, do you see two parts to the New Testament, before the Resurrection and after?

Yes. Before the Resurrection, His miracles defining who He was, were only periodic. There was still the requirement of faith, even with His incredible teaching. After the Resurrection, He appeared primarily in His Deity. I believe that this was to strengthen all the witnesses to His Deity to be prepared to “go out through the entire world proclaiming His Truth.”

And then what about priests in the Old Testament foreshadowing Christ as priest. There is a saying that Christ was both priest and victim on the Cross.