Confession

[puzzleannie]

My topic is confession.

I was told by a moral theologian that I can NEVER commit a MORTAL sin and I NEVER have to go to confession. He said to receie Communion at each mass and he said because I cannot commit moral sin, I can alays go to Communion.

If any theologian or priest can explain this I would be appreciated.

He said if I think I have sinned or have doubts, NEVER go to confession and use these word in any situation: “JESUS, I AM SORRY FOR MY SINS; I THANK YOU FOR YOUR MERCY.”

How can I be forgiven if it it not sacramental absolution?

When I die, what will I be basef on?

Thank you and may the Gd of mercies bless you.

PROVIGIL

what are his qualifications and upon what authority does he presume to give you instruction regarding your own confession? if he is not your priest he cannot deal in any way with you regarding your sins and matter for confession. If he really said this in so many words, he is not teaching in accordance with the Church, so should be ignored. Find a good priest as a confessor, learn the commandments and moral teachings of the Church, and confess as often as you are conscious of mortal sin. Every living human being who has attained the use of reason is capable of mortal sin, so this person lies on the face of it.

He can call himself a moral theologian, and I can call myself an astronaut, but that does not make either of us right.

 

[puzzleannie]

Dear People of God:

WIth my regards to confession, I do trust this Franciscan Moral Theologian in the advice her gave me. You have to REMEMBER, this advice was given only to me because of my condition and not to be applied to others.

This priest is in excellent standing with the Church.

I’m sorry for those of you who disagree, but remenber, this advice was only in “my situation.”

Thank you for your ideas.

May Almighty God bless you and your great efforts.

Respectfully yours,
Provigil

if the moral theologian is a “her” she is not a priest, so cannot possibly advise you on maters of confession.
If for some reason you have not the use of reason, then possibly you cannot sin, but no one hear can make give you that assurance, only a solid orthodox priest who knows you and knows of your condition can say that. Since you are participating in forum discussion, I assume you do have use of reason, so don’t bet the health of your soul on the pronouncements of someone without authority.

since OP’s 3 posts are self-contradictory it is not possible to give any helpful advice whatever on his specific needs, only to repeat the general teachings. any one who struggles with scrupulosity should find one good orthodox confessor who is familiar with his situation and confess only to him, and follow only is counsel, and cease asking advice of others, especially anonymously on the internet. that can only cause more spiritual harm.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I have never knowingly committed a mortal sin (I’m not counting stuff that the Church calls mortal but I didn’t know before I converted), but I go to confession at least every couple of weeks. Sacramental confession is about so much more than getting permission to receive Communion. I’m totally in agreement with those who point out that JPII had confession every week, and he never committed a mortal sin! Reconciliation is a chance to sit down with Jesus and take stock of where I’ve been and where I’m headed.

Scrupulosity is a serious and painful thing, but avoiding confession is not the way to deal with it. That just avoids and buries the problem.

 

[Provigil]

I think Eucharisted was referring to unrepented mortal sins, in which case sanctifying grace and Christ’s kingdom would be lost to that individual.

Also, a perfect contrition outside the confessional is needed for God’s forgiveness. Within the confessional imperfect contrition, although less desirable, absolves the individual.

If someone were to die on the way to the confessional, I would trust in the mercy of our Lord. A more likely scenario would be someone studying to enter the Catholic faith who died before entering the Church and receiving the sacrament of Reconciliation.

God is not bound by the sacraments. He can operate outside them. However, isn’t it a wonderful gift that we have the assurance of the confessional? There is a danger in “assuming” that God will forgive me for a particular sin.

With that said, I cannot see any circumstance where the advice given to the original poster can be in line with Church teaching. I cannot imagine anyone saying, “Don’t take advantage of this sacrament instituted by Our Lord. You don’t need it.” The sacrament is more than for confessing mortal sins.

 

[Provigil]

Dear LilyM:

I wrote a very lucid explanation about my confession, but some of the words were deleted by the administration.

LilyM: THE ONLY RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD AND YOU IS THAT OBEDIENCE TO YOUR CONFESSOR.

NO MATTER WHAT DOUBTS, FEARS, OR CIRCUMSTANCES MAY BE PRESENT–OBEY!!!

CONTINUE TO DO WHAT YOUR CONFESSOR ADVISED YOU TO DO, BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SAFE IN OBEYING YOUR CONFESSOR. BE POSITIVE YOU’RE DOING WHAT THE LORD WANTS YOU TO DO. LIKE CHRIST, YOU ARE BEING OBEDIENT TO LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY. ONE CANNOT GO WRONG IN ACTING LIKE CHRIST IN THESE DESIGNATED MATTERS.

May the peace of Christ and the Eternal Father be with you.

In the peace of Christ,
PROVIGIL

 

[LilyM]

Dear LilyM:

I wrote a very lucid explanation about my confession, but some of the words were deleted by the administration.

LilyM: THE ONLY RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD AND YOU IS THAT OBEDIENCE TO YOUR CONFESSOR.

NO MATTER WHAT DOUBTS, FEARS, OR CIRCUMSTANCES MAY BE PRESENT–OBEY!!!

CONTINUE TO DO WHAT YOUR CONFESSOR ADVISED YOU TO DO, BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SAFE IN OBEYING YOUR CONFESSOR. BE POSITIVE YOU’RE DOING WHAT THE LORD WANTS YOU TO DO. LIKE CHRIST, YOU ARE BEING OBEDIENT TO LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY. ONE CANNOT GO WRONG IN ACTING LIKE CHRIST IN THESE DESIGNATED MATTERS.

May the peace of Christ and the Eternal Father be with you.

In the peace of Christ,
PROVIGIL

So if your confessor tells you to murder someone that absolves you of all moral responsibility and you can go ahead and murder that person in clear conscience? If they tell you that adultery is in fact not a sin - that on the contrary you should go and cheat on your spouse as many times as you can manage - you are thereby authorised to do so? If they tell you that God does not exist and neither does Jesus you are free of blame if you believe them?

Bull. Priests do not always even administer the sacraments validly, in spite of being in persona Christi. Since they are capable of wrongly failing to confect the Eucharist, and wrongly attempting to administer absolution, they are certainly capable of giving wrong - even sinful - advice either from the pulpit or in the confessional.

And your conscience is not so utterly subject to theirs that you are invariably guiltless if you allow a priest or confessor to lead you into sin or error. Wasn’t the very influential heretic Arius a priest? Doubtless he counselled people in the confessional in a manner consistent with his own heretical beleifs. Are those who heeded him and followed him into heresy all blameless? Such is not Church teaching by any means, quite the contrary.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Choosing to follow another can be risky business, and certainly should not be the first option. There have been times when I just did not know what was the best action, so I prayed, I asked wise people, I tried some things out. When I just cannot figure it out, even with help, then I tell God I will submit to the decision of my spiritual director, who is wise and godly. I suppose I could take a short cut right to him, but then where would my growth be?

 

[Provigil]

So if your confessor tells you to murder someone that absolves you of all moral responsibility and you can go ahead and murder that person in clear conscience? If they tell you that adultery is in fact not a sin - that on the contrary you should go and cheat on your spouse as many times as you can manage - you are thereby authorised to do so? If they tell you that God does not exist and neither does Jesus you are free of blame if you believe them?

Bull. Priests do not always even administer the sacraments validly, in spite of being in persona Christi. Since they are capable of wrongly failing to confect the Eucharist, and wrongly attempting to administer absolution, they are certainly capable of giving wrong - even sinful - advice either from the pulpit or in the confessional.

And your conscience is not so utterly subject to theirs that you are invariably guiltless if you allow a priest or confessor to lead you into sin or error. Wasn’t the very influential heretic Arius a priest? Doubtless he counselled people in the confessional in a manner consistent with his own heretical beleifs. Are those who heeded him and followed him into heresy all blameless? Such is not Church teaching by any means, quite the contrary.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can perceive some bitterness in this reply. If you feel this way, than why go to confession? Priests are trained in the seminary what to do in circumstance that we don’t like to hear. You must not believe that God loves unconditionally. If you do not like the way the Sacraments are give, than, go to another Church, but by all means, it is serioiusly to talk and make accusations about a priest when they are representing Christ
The way you are judging these priests is the way you will be judged on Judgment Day.
Just because you are not satisfied with one priest doesn’t make it right to accuse all priest this way. A priest does represent Christ, and to talk this way is very UNCHRISTIAN and UNCAHTHOLIC. If you are not satisfied, than don’t frequent the Sacraments.
WHat y ou are saying is so wrong unless you ran into a priest. I would never make such acusations. God bless you and you will be remembered in my Divine Mercy Chaplet .
today.
Masy you have an understand, just because he is a priest, HE IS HUMAN and can make MISTAKES.
May almighty God bless you with some understanding.

PROVIGIL

 

[LilyM]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can perceive some bitterness in this reply. If you feel this way, than why go to confession? Priests are trained in the seminary what to do in circumstance that we don’t like to hear. You must not believe that God loves unconditionally. If you do not like the way the Sacraments are give, than, go to another Church, but by all means, it is serioiusly to talk and make accusations about a priest when they are representing Christ
The way you are judging these priests is the way you will be judged on Judgment Day.
Just because you are not satisfied with one priest doesn’t make it right to accuse all priest this way. A priest does represent Christ, and to talk this way is very UNCHRISTIAN and UNCAHTHOLIC. If you are not satisfied, than don’t frequent the Sacraments.
WHat y ou are saying is so wrong unless you ran into a priest. I would never make such acusations. God bless you and you will be remembered in my Divine Mercy Chaplet .
today.
Masy you have an understand,** just because he is a priest, HE IS HUMAN and can make MISTAKES.**
May almighty God bless you with some understanding.

PROVIGIL

I have no bitterness at all, just a recognition, as you have stated, that priests are human and can make mistakes in the confessional as well as out. It has nothing to do with personal dissatisfaction with any priest, I’ve met many priests who give advice that I personally might not like but nonetheless listen to and take to heart after due consideration.

God forgives unconditionally? Certainly His forgiveness is conditional on our repentance of our sins for starters, which repentance is best and most sincerely expressed by confessing even venial sins.

Seeking forgiveness in the confessional v outside is like a doctor doing an operation on the kitchen table with a kitchen knife as opposed to in a properly equipped operating theatre with properly designed surgical tools. The job can probably be done in either case, but how much better and more efficiently, how much better the treatment, in the place specifically designed for it!

My dislike of priests has to do with whether they teach Christ’s truth or not. If someone told me I never needed to go to confession I certainly wouldn’t dislike that advice - on a human level I’d probably love it. But it would be wrong nonetheless, and my God-given intelligence would demand that I acknowledge the wrongness of what that priest has said.

You were the one who was saying that because the priest stands in persona Christi that we must therefore be obedient no matter what they say, no matter what our doubts or fears. Which is wrong. We are NOT to be obedient to a priest who makes mistakes - in fact John Paul II said on the contrary. He said that when we see a priest abusing the Mass - saying it not in accord with the rubrics - we have not just a right but a duty to fraternally correct him on the issue.

Certainly we are not only free but bound to disbelieve - or even disobey if need be - a confessor who teaches us that good is evil or that wrong is right. And someone who teaches us that confession is not to be availed of regularly, even if we are incapable of mortal sin for whatever reason, is teaching that wrong is right.

Even your confessor said you were capable of sin - therefore, as with all people who are capable of sin, even the most scrupulous, you both need confession and should be confessing regularly, mortal sin or not. If you’re scrupulous you should be in obedience to his judgement as to how often to go to confession, but even the most scrupulous person does really sin and does really need regular confession. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Provigil]

QUOTE=PROVIGIL

---

As I have indicated to you on this Forum, this advice for confession is only for me.

As Catholic, I was appaled by the way you have judged this priest; YES, he is in good standing with the Church. He has taught at many seminaries.

I see no further reason to discuss this because you do not have the theology background for it. And the way you have judged this priest, you, too, will be judged the same way.

I would like all of you to remember this: THE ONLY RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD AND A PERSON HAS IS THAT OBEDIENCE TO HIS/HER CONFESSOR. NO MATTEER WHAT DOUBTS, FEARS, OR CIRCUMSTANCES MAY BE PRESENT----OBEY!!!

Continue to do what your confessor ADVISED you to do, because you are ALWAYS SAFE in OBEYING YOUR CONFESSOR. Be positive you’re doing what the Lord wants you to do. Like Christ, you are being OBEDIENT to legtimate authority. One cannot go wrong in acting like Christ in these matters.

I see no further reason to discuss this beause you just are throwing things out that has nothing to do with the Sacraments.

May God bless us in our efforts.

PROVIGIL

 

[tcm22]

---

As I have indicated to you on this Forum, this advice for confession is only for me.

As Catholic, I was appaled by the way you have judged this priest; YES, he is in good standing with the Church. He has taught at many seminaries.

I see no further reason to discuss this because you do not have the theology background for it. And the way you have judged this priest, you, too, will be judged the same way.

I would like all of you to remember this: THE ONLY RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD AND A PERSON HAS IS THAT OBEDIENCE TO HIS/HER CONFESSOR. NO MATTEER WHAT DOUBTS, FEARS, OR CIRCUMSTANCES MAY BE PRESENT----OBEY!!!

Continue to do what your confessor ADVISED you to do, because you are ALWAYS SAFE in OBEYING YOUR CONFESSOR. Be positive you’re doing what the Lord wants you to do. Like Christ, you are being OBEDIENT to legtimate authority. One cannot go wrong in acting like Christ in these matters.

I see no further reason to discuss this beause you just are throwing things out that has nothing to do with the Sacraments.

May God bless us in our efforts.

PROVIGIL

The judgment was on the facts you presented, not on the Priest. We don’t know the man in question, so all we have to go on is the picture you offered in your original post.

I’m curious about a couple of things:

1. What is it about you that makes you different than anyone else, that is unable to commit mortal sin and not required to go to confession? You’ve said this advice applies only to you, so I would be interested to hear what your circumstances are.
2. Your original question asked if this sounded like good advice, yet you have now rejected any answer that doesn’t support it. Why did you ask it in the first place? My impression is that your own gut feeling told you something was amiss, but now you have latched on to the answer and seem determined to refute anyone who suggests it wasn’t good counsel.
3. What does the Priest’s “good standing” have to do with the Truth of his statement? On their face, they contradict basic teaching. Barring further explanation or understanding of your specific circumstances, I would say the man is wrong regardless of his “standing.” Something that seems to contradict a basic Sacrament should be offered with an explanation of the specific circumstances where it does and does not apply. Maybe his standing isn’t as good as you imagine. Not having met him, I don’t know. Based on what you offer, I’d ask more questions.

 

[Heather_Barrett]

I cannot speak to Provigil’s personal circumstances.

I also cannot imagine what anybody would have to gain from never going to Confession. It’s such a tremendous source of grace and healing!

That being said, I’ve struggled with scrupulosity. I have to be careful about Confession sometimes, but I could never go without it completely. Nor have I ever been told to do so by my confessor or any other priest.

 

[Jea9]

Isn’t it possible that the OP has a mental condition that would stop her from having culpability in a mortal sin? I think everyone is assuming that since she’s on the internet and posting questions, she must be able to discern whether or not she is committing mortal sin. But, there are clearly lots of issues that we are not privvy to.

 

[tcm22]

Isn’t it possible that the OP has a mental condition that would stop her from having culpability in a mortal sin? I think everyone is assuming that since she’s on the internet and posting questions, she must be able to discern whether or not she is committing mortal sin. But, there are clearly lots of issues that we are not privvy to.

That’s certainly possible, and would explain the odd circumstances. I think I also read, however, that the OP is a seminarian.

There seems to be one of two possible explanations here, at least in my mind. 1) This was just plain bad guidance issued by the priest in question; 2) There are circumstances that we don’t know about.

I’m inclined to go with the first, as I would have expected the OP to explain the applicable circumstances up front when he asked for people’s opinion on the topic.

 

[shuzo1189]

As a Person who goes to Confession Weekly to a regular Confessor/Spiritual Director I can not fathom him telling me “Oh yes, you never have to go to Confession again. Just ask Jesus for his Mercy and your good to go” and frankly if he did I would seriously question his advice. Yes we are called to Obedience but we aren’t called to be ignorant. If my Confessor openly denied one of the Dogma’s or Sacraments of the Church i would quickly find a new confessor and consult my Bishop.

 

[LilyM]

Isn’t it possible that the OP has a mental condition that would stop her from having culpability in a mortal sin? I think everyone is assuming that since she’s on the internet and posting questions, she must be able to discern whether or not she is committing mortal sin. But, there are clearly lots of issues that we are not privvy to.

Culpability for mortal sin would only matter if confession were relevant ONLY to mortal sin. Point is even if we only ever sin venially (apparently Padre Pio was a soul of this rare breed, as was St Theresa of Lisieux if memory serves) we benefit hugely from going to confession regularly for those venial sins. Someone who is scrupulous should probably heed their advisor as to how OFTEN to go, but even for them it’s not a question of NEVER going, for even they benefit from regular confession.

For these reasons it is unfathomable that anyone who knows the Church’s teaching on the merits and importance of the sacrament of penance would advise anyone to not go EVER, even were they incapable of mortal sin, who has the mental and spiritual capacity of a seven-year-old (the traditional ‘age of reason’) or more.

Even those only capable of venial sin (and someone capable of getting into seminary would HAVE to be capable of at least venial sin, seminaries don’t let those with zero spiritual capacity and understanding in as they did Provigil, and someone who literally cannot sin must be gravely lacking in one or the other)

 

[Provigil]

i cannot speak to provigil’s personal circumstances.

I also cannot imagine what anybody would have to gain from never going to confession. It’s such a tremendous source of grace and healing!

That being said, i’ve struggled with scrupulosity. I have to be careful about confession sometimes, but i could never go without it completely. Nor have i ever been told to do so by my confessor or any other priest.

---

dear heather:

As i have proclaimed, the advice was given for me only. My confessor did not say i never have to go to confession, but at least every 2 months.

From some of your answers, you are not listening.

For the last time:

The only responsibility befor god and a person has is that obedience to his/her confessor. No matter what doubts, fears, or circumstances may be present—obey!!!

Continue to do what your confessor advised you to do, because you are always safe in obeying your confessor, be positive you’re doing what the lord wants you to do. Like christ, you are being obedient to legitimate authority. One cannot go wrong in acting like christ in these matters.

You have to remember, if you think the confessor has given you the wrong advice, than, on judgment day he will be accountable, not
you.

This priest has a doctorate in moral theology and to condemn him is very sinful. I do not think many piests give wrong advice; furthermore, they are trained in these areas, i would never question a priest who has his doctorate in moral theology.

It took me a long time accepting his advice, but i did,

if you people are not satisfied with your confessor, tell him or go to another confessor.

But as catholic, it is morally unjust to speak this way about priests.

All i can say it, do what you think is best.

If you would just remember this you cannot go wrong; the only responsibility before god and a persosn has is that obedience to his confessor. No matter what doubs, fears, or circumstances may be present—obey!!!1

i think it is time to drop this question because some of you have your mind set-up and to criticize a priest is what you are doing to christ.

I just cannot make you u ndertand the situation. You are lacking in theology, so i se no sense to go any further

thank you for your comments and may almighty god bless you in having an understanding of this situation.

In his divine mercy,
provigil

 

[Pug]

My confessor did not say i never have to go to confession, but at least every 2 months.

This is an entirely different matter. This advice is not strange at all.

The only responsibility befor god and a person has is that obedience to his/her confessor. No matter what doubts, fears, or circumstances may be present—obey!

It might facilitate discussion on this thread if you could support this statement using the Catechism of the Catholic Church, so people could know exactly what you mean. Since it has come out, many Catholics have devoutly read it and consider it normative. This especially applies to Catholics on this website. If your statement is generally true for all Catholics, then they may be expecting the Catechism to mention something so applicable to Catholic sacramental life. You appear to be describing your statement as something basic enough that any Catholic ought to know it, and you appear to wish to communicate it to us, so elucidation would be in order here.

 

[LilyM]

Provigil:

As i have proclaimed, the advice was given for me only. **My confessor did not say i never have to go to confession, but at least every 2 months.
**

No, you never said any such thing. If you had no-one would’ve had an issue, saying you should go only every two months is fine, and within the bounds of how someone who is scrupulous might be advised.

But what you actually proclaimed (in your first post and never corrected afterwards) was this:

Provigil:

I was told by a moral theologian that I can NEVER commit a MORTAL sin and I NEVER have to go to confession

From some of your answers, you are not listening.

We can’t jolly well listen to something you’ve never said, now can we!

For the last time:

The only responsibility befor god and a person has is that obedience to his/her confessor. No matter what doubts, fears, or circumstances may be present—obey!!!

Continue to do what your confessor advised you to do, because you are always safe in obeying your confessor, be positive you’re doing what the lord wants you to do. Like christ, you are being obedient to legitimate authority. One cannot go wrong in acting like christ in these matters.

You have to remember, if you think the confessor has given you the wrong advice, than, on judgment day he will be accountable, not
you.

This priest has a doctorate in moral theology and to condemn him is very sinful. I do not think many piests give wrong advice; furthermore, they are trained in these areas, i would never question a priest who has his doctorate in moral theology.

It took me a long time accepting his advice, but i did,

if you people are not satisfied with your confessor, tell him or go to another confessor.

But as catholic, it is morally unjust to speak this way about priests.

All i can say it, do what you think is best.

If you would just remember this you cannot go wrong; the only responsibility before god and a persosn has is that obedience to his confessor. No matter what doubs, fears, or circumstances may be present—obey!!!1

i think it is time to drop this question because some of you have your mind set-up and to criticize a priest is what you are doing to christ.

I just cannot make you u ndertand the situation. You are lacking in theology, so i se no sense to go any further

thank you for your comments and may almighty god bless you in having an understanding of this situation.

In his divine mercy,
provigil

And for the last time, priests are only infallible when teaching in union with the Holy Father, and are only to be obeyed when not teaching error or heresy!

And anyone who taught, as you began by asserting this priest did, that any adult of sound mind need NEVER go to confession would be teaching error pure and simple. Christ gave us our brains to use, not to ignore, and will demand an account from us of how we have used them!

He also gave us priests who are very much fallible and peccable human beings even when acting in Persona Christi.

 

[thevickinator16]

Hello! I haven’t seen a definition of mortal sin listed here, so I thought I’d run it by everyone. This is from the Cateschism:

Para. 1857: For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent” (RP 17 § 12).

Para. 1858: Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother” (Mk 10:19). The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

Para 1859: Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart (Cf. Mk 3:5-6; Lk 16:19-31) do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Following up this with paragraph:

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

No one is immune to committing mortal sin, it is just what we do when we cimmit them.

God Bless!