confession

[rinnie]

When Jesus was here he forgave the sins of many. On another site I have had alot of questions about the Sacrament of confession. So this thread is going to be on questions about that sacrament.

Hopefully we can answer any questions you have.

So fire away!

 

[Oblaidon]

Here is some information on confession.

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9810fea2.asp

I was received into the Catholic Church April of 1994. Confesssion wasn’t that big of an issue once it was explained.

 

[JacobG]

Jesus told His disciples that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name (Luke 24:47).

The apostles could only remit sin with the power of the Gospel through preaching. This was also Christ’s instruction to Paul when He (Paul) was converted. (Acts 26:16,17).

In order to be forgiven, the sinner must listen to this preaching and receive Christ as his Savior and Priest through faith (Acts 3:19, 5:29, 15:7-9).

Let’s look at John 20:23. What does the catholic priest do after confession? Forgives your sins? Is it complete forgiveness? Does he remove all the guilt? The RCC teaches, no, he only removes the eternal punishment due for sin. One must remove the temporal punishment due by gaining indulgences or doing penance. Is this true forgiveness?

Its like telling a man who is condemned to death that the Governor has just pardoned him, but that he must still come back and suffer the temporal punishment due for his crime. He must be hanged.

Is this true pardon?

 

[Jerry_Parker]

My problem with confession is that kind of scrupulosity that oral confession can instill. I know that in my own experience, Catholic and Anglo-Catholic, going to Confession has caused me to be too wrapped up in peccadillos and worry than it really has conforted me. The few times that I said Confession to a Lutheran minister were much more comforting and spiritually helpful. Lutheranism stresses that one only need to confess sins that are particularly grievous and/or about which a believer feels perplexed; the Lutheran who is confessing does not have to confess every last little thing that he has done amiss, “or else”, as Catholic confessors insist. However, whatever the differences over oral Confession, it is, FOR SURE, better to be a practising Catholic!

Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Jesus told His disciples that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name (Luke 24:47).

The apostles could only remit sin with the power of the Gospel through preaching. This was also Christ’s instruction to Paul when He (Paul) was converted. (Acts 26:16,17).

In order to be forgiven, the sinner must listen to this preaching and receive Christ as his Savior and Priest through faith (Acts 3:19, 5:29, 15:7-9).

Let’s look at John 20:23. What does the catholic priest do after confession? Forgives your sins? Is it complete forgiveness? Does he remove all the guilt? The RCC teaches, no, he only removes the eternal punishment due for sin. One must remove the temporal punishment due by gaining indulgences or doing penance. Is this true forgiveness?

Its like telling a man who is condemned to death that the Governor has just pardoned him, but that he must still come back and suffer the temporal punishment due for his crime. He must be hanged.

Is this true pardon?

Hi Jacob. Glad you came. Okay now lets adress the govenor question. You are saying if someone if pardoned must he do temporal punishment. I sure hope so. I would hope that if the governor did pardon someone there would be some penance for the sins the person commited. If not what would stop that person from doing them again.

Does a person who is let out of prison not have probation. Does he not have to report to a probation officer to make sure they are going to stay on the right track. Or does the governor say hey take off kill again. OR does he try to reform this person.

Now back to confession. First of all you have to understand what it is. You first must pray and meditate on your sin LONG before you hit the Confessional. You tell God that you are sorry you pray and ask him to forgive you, You tell him how sorry you are. Now you go to the Priest. The Priest is just standing in for God with the Power God gave him. You tell the Priest you sin, after already praying and telling God how sorry you are. The Priest says you are forgiven. Now we have Probation. Lets say you have a addiction to porn. He may say you must stay off of the computer, or only pay bills etc if you must. Now every time you find that you want to hit the porn network he may say go in your room and say maybe the rosary, whatever prayers he tells you. But it is to keep you in a state of grace. Do you see what I mean. A Priest no only forgives you a sin, he shows you ways to sin no more. He also prays with you in the Box (as my kids used to call it) to help you to do what you need to do. He prays for you, just how Jesus prayed for Peter.

 

[rinnie]

My problem with confession is that kind of scrupulosity that oral confession can instill. I know that in my own experience, Catholic and Anglo-Catholic, going to Confession has caused me to be too wrapped up in peccadillos and worry than it really has conforted me. The few times that I said Confession to a Lutheran minister were much more comforting and spiritually helpful. Lutheranism stresses that one only need to confess sins that are particularly grievous and/or about which a believer feels perplexed; the Lutheran who is confessing does not have to confess every last little thing that he has done amiss, “or else”, as Catholic confessors insist. However, whatever the differences over oral Confession, it is, FOR SURE, better to be a practising Catholic!

Jerry Parker

Hi Jerry, glad to hear from you. Actually we only have to confess Mortal sin. Venial sin can be confessed only once a year. They like you to come as often as you want but its only Mortal sin thats a concern.

Personally I hate it to. Its like going to the dentist you hate so bad to go. But like going in to the dentist with pain you come out so pain free and you feel so so much better. Except its you soul instead of your teeth.

 

[rinnie]

Also Jacob what is true penance. Easy its to quit doing the sin, is it not? I mean if you go in and confess your sin and are forgiven is not the penance (besides praying to quit doing the sin)? What do you think the prayers are for Jacob. Its for help from God to help you. And is it not Penance (HARD) to quit this sin. Thats why the true penance is after the confession not before.

Its easy to regret, and be sorry. But its harder to repent and quit the sin. And so you do an indulgance what does that really do. Simple it takes time away from you to sin, because you do good works instead. Whats wrong with that?

Say Father says once a week you must help a old person with work, and then you must pray. When you are helping that old person you are thinking about what? Your sin right? How could you not. Then when you pray after you are asking for God to help you. Again time spent on getting back into the Grace of God. Less time left to sin.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Rinnie,

*You wrote: *** Actually we only have to confess Mortal sin. Venial sin can be confessed only once a year. They like you to come as often as you want but its only Mortal sin thats a concern. Personally I hate it to. Its like going to the dentist you hate so bad to go. But like going in to the dentist with pain you come out so pain free and you feel so so much better. Except its you soul instead of your teeth.​

Thanks, Rinnie, for your elucidations. However, there remains the question of just what failings are “mortal sins”. If one reads what the Council of Trent had to say about Confession, it seems that an awful lot of human activity consitutes mortal sin. The worst of it is when one’s own conscience really does not feel guilt about – or, apart from feelings, regard really as wrong, not to mention so much so as to constitute “mortal sin” – some of the matters that Trent regarded as “mortallly sinful” in nature.

I still think that the Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox have more convincing concepts of all this. Alas, the Church is devided, and until there is a reunion of East and West, there never will be satisfactorily good guides to such pastoral and doctrinal matters. This does not mean that the Councils of Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II are not right, just that their one-sidedness and defensiveness, especially Trent and Vat-I, have not produced decrees that are fully healthy as well as “right” (except in some tight and airlessly suffocating sense). One just has to stumble along as best as one can.

Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Here is the best way to define mortal sin IMO. I am sure you have the CCC def. of it.

But here is how I was taught. Mortal sin is when you know the sin you are about to do can take you away from God’s grace. You know the stakes but you go on and do it anyway. And sometimes you are not strong enough at the time etc. or whatever to do what you know in your heart is right.

Now that’s bad enough, it can separate you from God. But you still have the chance to go back ask for forgiveness and be set free from it. But also the big key you have to be sorry.

Now what happens alot its sometime harder for us to forgive ourself then ask God to forgive us. Sometimes I think we under
estimate his love for us. We forget there is nothing we can not be forgiven for if we ask if we are truly sorry. But our fear, pride, etc can stop us. Or and I think this is the most important thing about confession. Its easier to say to God in your own mind God I am sorry forgive me. Then to say it out loud to a Priest. I don’t care what anyone says it so much harder to do it that way. But on the other hand hearing that Priest say you are forgiven is so much easier to accept Gods forgivenss too though. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Oblaidon]

I know if I commit a mortal sin I have to refrain from receiving the Eucharist until I go to confession. That alone, is motivation for me not to sin.

If Catholics really understood and followed what the Church teaches, we would have many more moral people in this world.

When I was protestant, I would just tell God in my own time I was sorry. I didn’t have to examine my conscience at any given time. It is almost too easy and quick to just tell God I am sorry in your own mind. In the privacy of your own mind you say "I beat someone up today God, so sorry. Am I forgiven now? Oh good, that’s a relief. "

 

[rinnie]

Hear is something to blow you mind.

Do you know the confession would probally wipe out over 80% of depression in this world.

Weird huh DEPRession CONFession.

You have heard it from the day you were born confession is GOOD FOR THE SOUL! And its free. But People will pay Dr after Dr for help that the Dr cannot supply. A Dr cannot forgive you sins and get you back into the Good grace of God.

Do not get me wrong. some people need a Dr. But many need a good Priest.

Do you people that a sick mind is a sick soul.

This is a true story. When my daughter was 15 she got mixed up with a really confused boy. he wanted her to sleep over his house etc and I refused. So they got this bright idea to go to the school counselor to show her how strict I was. And I am going to tell you what she was on their side at first. But after we had our talk she wanted to talk to them again and when it was all over she did change her mind. SHe saw the LIGHT! But let me tell you the point of the story. She said to me if you ever want to talk you can call me. You know what I said. I said if I need to talk to someone I talk to God, and If I need a person at the time I go to my Priest. You know what she said to me? She said you are Catholic, I am Catholic, You do not know how many times I wish I could tell people to pray, and go to the Priest but I would get fired for it? She knew she could only do so much. But she also knew the Power that God gave that Priest that she did not have.

 

[rinnie]

I know if I commit a mortal sin I have to refrain from receiving the Eucharist until I go to confession. That alone, is motivation for me not to sin.

If Catholics really understood and followed what the Church teaches, we would have many more moral people in this world.

When I was protestant, I would just tell God in my own time I was sorry. I didn’t have to examine my conscience at any given time. It is almost too easy and quick to just tell God I am sorry in your own mind. In the privacy of your own mind you say "I beat someone up today God, so sorry. Am I forgiven now? Oh good, that’s a relief. "

Amen to that. Its like if you steal something from the store and you Mother saying go in your room and tell God you are sorry and ask him to forgive you. Thats good don’t get me wrong. But now your Mother says lets go. ??? Go? Go where Mom. Back to the Store and tell the manager what you did and return the item? AND FACE THE MUSIC

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** *Here is the best way to define mortal sin IMO. I am sure you have the CCC def. of it.

But here is how I was taught. Mortal sin is when you know the sin you are about to do can take you away from God’s grace. You know the stakes but you go on and do it anyway. And sometimes you are not strong enough at the time etc. or whatever to do what you know in your heart is right.

Now that’s bad enough, it can separate you from God. But you still have the chance to go back ask for forgiveness and be set free from it. But also the big key you have to be sorry.*​

Thanks for that. However, these comments still do not resolve the matter of what should consist in being mortal sin. Do certain sins among those so often included really remove us from the grace of God to the point of losing one’s salvation? Take for example, masturbation. (I do not mean to be gross, but rather simply to take a very, very common peccadillo in men’s behaviour.) Does masturbating REALLY cause one to lose one’s very salvation if one dies before being able to confess what perhaps truly is a venial sin? Trent would say so; many of the classic works on moral theology would say so. Is it even wise, though, to make such an evaluation of this behaviour? I doubt it. Is it any wonder that so many regard this as absurd? There is no doubt about that!.

I do not question the authority of the Church. I simply think that such matters as these will be resolved more with more sagacity when the entire Church, Roman (and Eastern) Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, at last are united. (Protestants do not count; their entire spirit resists the very idea of a truly catholic and authoritative Church.) The Orthodox respect for what one can expect of weak and fallible humans (apart from the heroically virtuous such as those who have become saints) would tone down much of Catholic scrupulosity and severity.

Well, such connundra will continue for a long time. Reunion is nowhere in sight!

Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** *Here is the best way to define mortal sin IMO. I am sure you have the CCC def. of it.

But here is how I was taught. Mortal sin is when you know the sin you are about to do can take you away from God’s grace. You know the stakes but you go on and do it anyway. And sometimes you are not strong enough at the time etc. or whatever to do what you know in your heart is right.

Now that’s bad enough, it can separate you from God. But you still have the chance to go back ask for forgiveness and be set free from it. But also the big key you have to be sorry.*​

Thanks for that. However, these comments still do not resolve the matter of what should consist in being mortal sin. Do certain sins among those so often included really remove us from the grace of God to the point of losing one’s salvation? Take for example, masturbation. (I do not mean to be gross, but rather simply to take a very, very common peccadillo in men’s behaviour.) Does masturbating REALLY cause one to lose one’s very salvation if one dies before being able to confess what perhaps truly is a venial sin? Trent would say so; many of the classic works on moral theology would say so. Is it even wise, though, to make such an evaluation of this behaviour? I doubt it. Is it any wonder that so many regard this as absurd? There is no doubt about that!.

I do not question the authority of the Church. I simply think that such matters as these will be resolved more with more sagacity when the entire Church, Roman (and Eastern) Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, at last are united. (Protestants do not count; their entire spirit resists the very idea of a truly catholic and authoritative Church.) The Orthodox respect for what one can expect of weak and fallible humans (apart from the heroically virtuous such as those who have become saints) would tone down much of Catholic scrupulosity and severity.

Well, such connundra will continue for a long time. Reunion is nowhere in sight!

Jerry Parker

Actually Jerry you kinda answered it yourself. I am RC so I go by the teachings of the RCC. I agree with you it would be GREAT if we could all re-unite and I know we will. But that is in the hands of God not us. But the main thing is we must obey the teachings of our Church until that happens. And as long as we do that I am sure we are in Gods grace. We can only know what is revealed to us also. I believe the RCC is the complete package so I belong there. Same for EC & EO. They feel just as strong as I, or should. But we have the sacraments thats the most important thats for sure. But remember God only holds us responsible for what we know, not what we don’t!

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** Actually Jerry you kinda answered it yourself. I am RC so I go by the teachings of the RCC. I agree with you it would be GREAT if we could all re-unite and I know we will. But that is in the hands of God not us. But the main thing is we must obey the teachings of our Church until that happens. And as long as we do that I am sure we are in God’s grace. We can only know what is revealed to us also. I believe the RCC is the complete package so I belong there. Same for EC & EO. They feel just as strong as I, or should. But we have the sacraments; that’s the most important, that’s for sure. But remember God only holds us responsible for what we know, not what we don’t!​

Well, I do not torment myself about the minor kinds of questions that I have raised, but I know that many suffer tortures of conscience over these matters. However, one must keep in sight that Christ’s True Church, Catholic and Orthodox alike, has its spiritual life and discipline, which command respect and allegiance. The Protestants (Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians/Refirned) and, worse, the sectaries (Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, et alia) have merely various degrees of chaos, which command only censure and even a sort of benign amusement.

One has to live with his own conscience, in the light of the teachings of Holy Scripture and Tradition (i.e. the “canonical Tradition” that the Orthodox Church so well defines, not mere antiquity itself). Part of the problem with scrupulosity, a dreadful weakness of the Western Church, is trying to go beyond what Scripture and genuine Tradition teach with clarity, to define every last shred of every aspect of every situation and to resolve every conceivable dilemma. That sort of thing get unnecessarily complicated and it only distracts from the worth of what the Scriptures and the Church** undeniably** teach. Sometimes folks expect too much, in a certain kind of way, in terms of certainty. They should concentrate instead on the certainty of God’s offer of salvation, grace, and sanctification, which the God the Father approves, God the Son, Christ accomplished, and God the Holy Ghost conveys.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,

**You wrote: ** Actually Jerry you kinda answered it yourself. I am RC so I go by the teachings of the RCC. I agree with you it would be GREAT if we could all re-unite and I know we will. But that is in the hands of God not us. But the main thing is we must obey the teachings of our Church until that happens. And as long as we do that I am sure we are in God’s grace. We can only know what is revealed to us also. I believe the RCC is the complete package so I belong there. Same for EC & EO. They feel just as strong as I, or should. But we have the sacraments; that’s the most important, that’s for sure. But remember God only holds us responsible for what we know, not what we don’t!​

Well, I do not torment myself about the minor kinds of questions that I have raised, but I know that many suffer tortures of conscience over these matters. However, one must keep in sight that Christ’s True Church, Catholic and Orthodox alike, has its spiritual life and discipline, which command respect and allegiance. The Protestants (Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians/Refirned) and, worse, the sectaries (Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, et alia) have merely various degrees of chaos, which command only censure and even a sort of benign amusement.

One has to live with his own conscience, in the light of the teachings of Holy Scripture and Tradition (i.e. the “canonical Tradition” that the Orthodox Church so well defines, not mere antiquity itself). Part of the problem with scrupulosity, a dreadful weakness of the Western Church, is trying to go beyond what Scripture and genuine Tradition teach with clarity, to define every last shred of every aspect of every situation and to resolve every conceivable dilemma. That sort of thing get unnecessarily complicated and it only distracts from the worth of what the Scriptures and the Church** undeniably** teach. Sometimes folks expect too much, in a certain kind of way, in terms of certainty. They should concentrate instead on the certainty of God’s offer of salvation, grace, and sanctification, which the God the Father approves, God the Son, Christ accomplished, and God the Holy Ghost conveys.

Pax, Jerry Parker

Oh Jerry Jerry Jerry, you are who the Pope was talking about when he said OPEN UP THE WINDOWS AND LET THE FRESH AIR IN. You are such a asset to the faith!

 

[Janet1983]

Hopefully we can answer any questions you have.

So fire away!

Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.
#1495

Well I have a question:
Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?
(I am not asking whether or not one should confess to a priest, I am just asking why this should be the single way to confess one’s sins to God.)

“I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.”
Psalm 32:5

“Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.”
Psalm 51:2-3

“Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?”
Mark 2:7

“Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
Hebrews 4:16

“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus…”
Hebrews 10:19

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9

 

[rinnie]

Well I have a question:
Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?
(I am not asking whether or not one should confess to a priest, I am just asking why this should be the single way to confess one’s sins to God.)

Because Jesus told us to do it that way. When Jesus came down he gave forgiveness and gave the same power to the Priest.

Got a question for you, Do you believe that Jesus could forgive sins? Do you believe that Jesus had the Power to forgive sins? Do you believe Jesus said all power of heaven and earth have been given to me, What my father has given to me, I now give you to you.

John 20:23 Jesus gives his apostles the power to forgive sin.

Now if Jesus gave his Apostles the power to forgive sin, but did not want us to confess our sins to them, why would he give them the power. What was the Purpose?

 

[heathernoel]

On a more personal level, when I sin, I don’t just hurt myself. I am hurting the body of Christ. By confessing to my priest, I am not only doing as Jesus asked, I’m also going to the Body and asking forgiveness. It is only then that the Body can be whole.

 

[Ignatius33]

Well I have a question:
Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?
(I am not asking whether or not one should confess to a priest, I am just asking why this should be the single way to confess one’s sins to God.)

Because it was God’s plan (see Jn. 20:23; Matt. 16:19: Matt. 18:18), which was followed by the early Church and continues to be followed by every non-Protestant Church to this day (e.g., Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Copts, Assyrians, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.). His plan makes perfect sense too – since one’s sins ultimately affect other people, it is reasonable that God desired the Body of Christ, His Church, to play a role in reconciling the sinner to a state of grace. Those are my thoughts anyway. By the way, I believe that venial sins can be confessed directly to God (as in the “Our Father,” when we ask God to forgive us our sins); mortal sins (a voluntary participation in a grave act with full knowledge thereof), however, must be confessed to a priest. I could cite a whole slew of early Christian source to support confession to a priest/the Church’s role in the forgiveness of sins, but I’ll just quote St. Augustine here:

“Let no one say: ‘I did that; perhaps I will not be forgiven.’ Because you did it? How great is the sin you committed? Tell me what you have done, something serious, something horrible, something terrifying even to think about. Whatever you might have done, did you kill Christ? There is nothing worse than having done that, because there is nothing better than Christ. How great a wrong is it to kill Christ? But the Jews killed Him; and afterwards many of them believed in Him and drank His Blood: and the sin which they had committed was forgiven them. When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God, so that you may preserve your Baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins; for light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. What does the prayer say? ‘Forgive us our debts as we too forgive our debtors’ [Matt. 6:12]. We are cleansed only once by Baptism; by prayer we are cleansed daily. But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the Body of Christ *; perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities: that is why they are doing penance. If their sin were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in Baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet, God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermon to Catechumens, On the Creed [ca. 395 AD]).

Augustine also remarked: “The remission of sins is their unbinding . . . Let this be in the heart of the penitent: when you hear a man confessing his sins, he has already come to life again; when you hear a man lay bare his conscience in confessing, he has already come forth from the sepulcher; but he is not yet unbound. When is he unbound? By whom is he unbound? ‘Whatever you loose on earth,’ He says, ‘shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:19]. Rightly is the loosing of sins able to be given by the Church” (Explanation of the Psalms [inter 392-418 AD]).

Hope that is helpful. *