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mynameismatt
Guest
If the priest says “I forgive you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Is this valid? Or “I forgive you in…”? Thanks, Matt
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joshua_b
Guest
Im not really sure on this one. My inclination is to say that it is valid, but maybe not licit. You may be better served in the ask an apologist forum. If you get the answer to this, by all means please let me know.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The Rite of Penance has the following words in bold (this is known as the form of the Sacrament):
I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
In some parts of Sacramental Rites it says the priest says XYZ in these or simular words. It does NOT say that here it specifies exactly what words are to be used.
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JimG
Guest
Don’t obsess. It’s valid.
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joshua_b
Guest
So, if this form ( I absolve you of your sins…) is not used verbatim, then is the sacrament invalid ? Because if it is then I have a follow up question.
I would assume that if we had this knowledge, and were in this circumstance, that we would be under obligation to seek a new confessor and obtain valid absolution. However, let us assume that someone having received an invalid absolution had no knowledge whatsoever it was invalid ? What (if anything) would be their responsibility, or rather their culpability, were they to die in that state, having believed that they had validly received the sacrament ?
Please feel free to explain further, and correct any errors on my part.
I would assume that if we had this knowledge, and were in this circumstance, that we would be under obligation to seek a new confessor and obtain valid absolution. However, let us assume that someone having received an invalid absolution had no knowledge whatsoever it was invalid ? What (if anything) would be their responsibility, or rather their culpability, were they to die in that state, having believed that they had validly received the sacrament ?
Please feel free to explain further, and correct any errors on my part.
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wjp984
Guest
well I would think anything that means the same thing would be valid. I really have no idea though. There are several ways to say an act of contrition and several ways to say the different parts of the mass in gerneral so unless it is specificlaly stated that there is to be one and only one way to receive the sacrament of confesson and it must be in those exact words then I don’t see how it wouldn’t be valid. Also, if that were the case where it had to be those exact words why not enforce that it has to be in Latin so there is not discrepency in the language or translation anywhere?
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The validity or invalidity of a Sacrament would need to be determined by a Bishop.
My opinion is that *forgive *instead of absolve would make the Sacrament illicit but not invalid.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
What’s the difference between illicit and invalid.
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wjp984
Guest
what is the difference between forgive and absolve?
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Sir Knight:
Illicit would mean that the Rite in which the Sacrament takes place was not celebrated properly according to the Rite or the law but the basic elements for validity are still there.
Invalid would mean that no Sacrament took place.
Illicit would mean that the Rite in which the Sacrament takes place was not celebrated properly according to the Rite or the law but the basic elements for validity are still there.
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mosher
Guest
Br. Rich SFO:
I agree with Br. Rich on this topic and to build on this post (quoted above) an example would be if the priest changes the words of institution then the mass is invalid. If a priest leaves out the Creed on Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation it is illicit. Just leaving out the Creed will not cause the consecration to not happen but changing the words of institution will cause the consecration to not happen.
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