Confession?!?

[S_V7]

sigh, this is probably going to sound very scrupulous but here it goes. I have a feeling that many of my past confessions have been invalid by concealing grave and possibly mortal sin, not being truly sorry for my sins and thinking that I’ll still do them again. There is so much uncertainty that the only way out seems to make a general confession. I was making a list of my sins and became overwhelmed, not only could I not clearly remember what sins I had committed in my younger years, I couldn’t determine if they were mortal/ venial or much less how many times. I pulled out the calculator to figure out sins and I just lost it. The numbers were probably completely off, I just guessed most of the time. Then, as I went through an examination of conscience, I couldn’t decide if I had committed the sins listed, if I had a feeling that I had committed them, I put it down and guessed at the number of times I committed it. Then I couldn’t determine if I was being detailed enough, I read somewhere that vauge confessions make bad ones, so I wanted some detail of my sins (which I couldn’t always accuratly provide) and possibly made up a bunch of details. And I couldn’t decide what was ‘appropriate’ to say. Especially with impure sins, that I first had to determine if I committed, guess at how many times, and decide how to go about confessing them appropriatley. I had a couple of breakdowns during the whole process which is still underway.
I feel that if I just go to confession with the mortal sins I beleive I committed, I will have not examined my consience enough to find other grave/mortal sins which would have been realized and confessed instead of forgotten on purpose. I have made 1 general confession before where I brought a list, but my preist just told me to say the sins I remember ( I think) and I didn’t mention serious sins which I had written down but forgot ( I think). I don’t want to go to confession and confess 10 out of 200 sins and just comfort myself with ‘I forgot’, knowing that if I had brought a list I wouldn’t have forgotten. It’s the list that is driving me insane, especially trying to figure out the number of a sin I committed through a lifetime. Does it have be a specific average number or can it by something like ‘7 times a year’. Another thing is, because in my youth I never thought much about mortal sins ( I always assumed it was just things like murder adultery and large theft) I carelssly commited many sins which I now can’t remember if I knew they were seriously wrong or not, much less the amount of times I committed it.

If there’s any CCD teachers out there, please make sure you underline the importance and holiness of the Sacrements. I can’t remeber being told how serious withholding sins is among other things.

Any insights would be wonderful.

 

[S_V7]

I guess I’ll chop this down a bit. What I would like to know, is any good advice on how to make a good valid general confession. List or no list? I was thinking about taking a copy of a good examination of conscience along to an appointment and starting from there. Must I explain every sin and it’s situation?

We have already seen the necessity of contrition for every mortal sin for the valid reception of this sacrament, and the fact that in certain rare situations the confession of them could be omitted. Outside of those extraordinary circumstances, however, all mortal sins committed since baptism and not yet absolved in the Sacrament of Penance, must be confessed as to their number, kind and circumstances that change their nature. This is what theologians refer to as necessary matter for the sacrament, while venial sins are referred to as sufficient matter, i.e. sufficient for absolution. pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll43n4.htm

what does that mean? Ex: A person commits adultery, what kind of details are they required to say in confession?

and what happens when one forgets mention the occurance of a mortal sin? If a number isn’t given, is the confession still valid?

Is it ok, that I wildly guess at a number of sins on just the ‘feel’ of it?

I just really need some help, I want to get it good and right once and for all.

 

[baltobetsy]

I guess I’ll chop this down a bit. What I would like to know, is any good advice on how to make a good valid general confession. List or no list? I was thinking about taking a copy of a good examination of conscience along to an appointment and starting from there. Must I explain every sin and it’s situation?

First of all, let’s talk about making a general confession at all. It is well established that you suffer from scrupulosity. One of the things that scrupulous people do is make general confession after general confession trying to get it right. Because of the nature of your problem, you will never, ever be convinced that you have “done it right.” What you really need to do is talk to your priest about this, ask him what to do and OBEY HIM WITHOUT QUESTION. St. Philip Neri put it very well: “He who always acts under obedience may rest assured that he will not have to give an account of his actions to God.”

We have already seen the necessity of contrition for every mortal sin for the valid reception of this sacrament, and the fact that in certain rare situations the confession of them could be omitted. Outside of those extraordinary circumstances, however, all mortal sins committed since baptism and not yet absolved in the Sacrament of Penance, must be confessed as to their number, kind and circumstances that change their nature. This is what theologians refer to as necessary matter for the sacrament, while venial sins are referred to as sufficient matter, i.e. sufficient for absolution. pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll43n4.htm

what does that mean? Ex: A person commits adultery, what kind of details are they required to say in confession?

Against my better judgment, I will answer this question, just for the sake of your education. Aside from saying the name of the sin and how many times you committed it, the only details you must give are those that change the nature of the sin. For example, committing adultery with a person consecrated to God (a priest, brother or nun) adds the sin of sacrilege to the adultery. So, if you have simple, garden-variety adultery, you need no details at all.

and what happens when one forgets mention the occurance of a mortal sin? If a number isn’t given, is the confession still valid?

Is it ok, that I wildly guess at a number of sins on just the ‘feel’ of it?

An estimate of the number of times per day, week, month or year is just fine. God is not an accountant. He knows you’re sorry.

I just really need some help, I want to get it good and right once and for all.

I repeat what I said above: Talk to your priest and do whatever he tells you.

Betsy

 

[mommyof4]

I agree with the previous poster. You need to go talk to your priest about this, and do whatever he suggests. This is coming from a person who struggles with scrupulosity herself, so I do understand your concerns.

 

[S_V7]

First of all, let’s talk about making a general confession at all. It is well established that you suffer from scrupulosity. One of the things that scrupulous people do is make general confession after general confession trying to get it right. Because of the nature of your problem, you will never, ever be convinced that you have “done it right.” What you really need to do is talk to your priest about this, ask him what to do and OBEY HIM WITHOUT QUESTION. St. Philip Neri put it very well: “He who always acts under obedience may rest assured that he will not have to give an account of his actions to God.”

Yes I am HORRIBLY scrupulous, to the point of quesiness. The thing is, I fear I may have a highly liberal confessor that will say my sins aren’t sins (which they may not be) or something that is VERY liberal and against the Churche’s doctrine.

By the way, mommyof4, I love your signature pic. Got me a bit teary.

 

[baltobetsy]

Yes I am HORRIBLY scrupulous, to the point of quesiness. The thing is, I fear I may have a highly liberal confessor that will say my sins aren’t sins (which they may not be) or something that is VERY liberal and against the Churche’s doctrine.

But if you obey your confessor, the responsibility is HIS, not yours. You please God by obeying. Period.

God is not pleased by your constant worry. It’s a sign of fear, not love. He wants your love and trust.

Do you ever pray the Divine Mercy chaplet? You might find it powerful and helpful.

Betsy

 

[S_V7]

Well I don’t know what that is but I could give it a try. These post help, I’ve been feeling so horrible all day, I was beginning to think it impossible to make a good confession considering the examination of my scrupulous conscience. I’m debating wether or not to make a list or take a good examination of conscience along and go from there. It’s the latter I want to do since making a list was torture and much guesswork.

please pray that I and everyone can have the peace and forgiveness of a good confession.

 

[teachccd]

If there’s any CCD teachers out there, please make sure you underline the importance and holiness of the Sacrements. I can’t remeber being told how serious withholding sins is among other things.

Any insights would be wonderful.

I am a CCD teacher. Could you have guessed?? Anyway, I definitely teach the importance of the Sacraments as encounters with Christ. But most importantly I also teach the mercy and love of God. You are bathed in scrupulosity and need to know that while withholding a mortal sin is wrong, by golly know that God is your friend. He would do anything to find that your sin is not mortal. You don’t sound like you wish to remain in total separation from God, which is what mortal sin is. So calm down and seek the advice of your confessor. I know first hand because I am almost like you. I like to find confessors who say that everything that I do is a sin and run from those who don’t. But just maybe the priests who seem lenient are knowing you and the mercy of God and are doing exactly as Christ would do if you sat at His feet. And with every priest, at every confession that is what you are doing. That’s what I teach the kids. God is Love, (1 John 4:8) God bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Just one more thought. God doesn’t keep lists. He sees hearts. If your heart mirrors love then God sees Himself. Scrap the lists, boost the love and God will hug you into eternity…teachccd

 

[JimG]

I am neither a priest nor a confessor, but IF I were, and IF you came to me for confession, and knowing the magnitude of your scrupulosity, I would advise you to never confess sins that occurred prior to your last confession, and not to go to confession more frequently than biweekly.

But that’s just me.

It doesn’t make any difference whether your priest is liberal, traditional, or out in left field. The absolution he gives is valid. You should follow his advice. You should trust the sacrament, which is to say, you should trust Jesus.

 

[S_V7]

I find it hard not to be scrupulous when I read things like this

During your conservations with God through prayer, you came to know your real self. He has given you strength and courage. The Holy Ghost has enlightened the soul. Reflect how you stand before God. Take account of your soul. Think about your sins since your last Confession. This is making an examination of conscience. The neglect of examination of conscience is a source of sacrilegious Confessions. It is owing to carelessness on the part of some, indifference on the part of others, and ignorance on the part of a third class. Generally those who hasten to the confessional without asking God to give them grace to make a good Confession, begin to accuse themselves without any previous examination. They never try to COUNT THEIR SINS. Many do not show themselves to the priest, as our Lord tells them. They either hide their guilty conscience, or they show themselves in false colors. They do not examine their conscience. They do not count their sins. The following is an example of a confession made without an examination of conscience.

The penitent alone is the only accuser, the witness against himself. If he does not tell the truth, how can the priest rightly tell the condition of his soul? In the example given the penitent says, “I cursed,” but does not tell the whole truth. He does not say whether it was once, twice, ten or one hundred times a day. Again, he does not tell the curses he used. He does not say whether, in cursing, he invoked God, or Christ, or the sacred Name of Jesus. How, then, can the priest have any knowledge of the curses and oaths which that man has vomited forth, when he only hears, “Father, I cursed.” The again he says, “Father, I missed Mass.” He does not tell the priest how often, whether it was once in a month or once in six months, whether he could help it or not. He says, too, that he has had bad thoughts, but he gives no intimation that he took pleasure in them; he does not tell how often that was the case, and so on. If he absolves that man without a knowledge of his soul, he runs the danger of committing a terrible sacrilege himself.

*And consider where in and how often you have offended God by thought, word, deed, or omission. REMEMBER ALWAYS TO COUNT YOUR SINS. There are certain words never to be used in the confessional. Never say sometimes, a good many times, not often, very often. Never use such expressions, because they are all vague, indefinite terms; they do not give the priest any idea of the exact number of one’s sins. Tell what you said, and how many times you said it. Tell what you did, and the number of times you did it. If you cannot give the exact number, give it as nearly as you can. Tell about how often. God does not require impossibilities. Doing the best you can, you need have no fear of telling a lie. To come as nearly as you can to the number is not lying. It is all you can do. But if you find this too difficult, because you have been absent from Confession a long time, then give an average number of the sins you have committed daily or weekly or monthly. **Put one day or one week or one month with another, and see about how often in a day or in the week or in the month you have been in the habit of committing each sin. *Moreover, have some system in examining yourself and in telling your sins. Follow the order of the commandments. Separate your different sins, one kind from another, and count how many you have of each. Act like a man who has a quantity of money of different denominations. He separates the different pieces according to their value, and, counting each kind, soon knows the value of the whole.

I have trouble counting my sins, especially with the ones I can’t remember and have to guess at. Is is okay to just say I did sin X about 3 times a month for 10 years or something?

How great a crime is committed by unworthily receiving our Lord in Communion! They who do so, as St. Paul says, are guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. You have heard, perhaps of the unnatural mother who took her lovely smiling babe and buried it alive. Oh, how much greater is the crime of the bad Catholic who will bury the living Son of God in a heart foul with every crime, worse than any grave, however horrible! How will such a wretch one day answer an enraged Father for what may be called the murder of His adorable Son?
willingshepherds.net/Examination.html

This one really got my scrupules fired up.

 

[baltobetsy]

Willing Shepherds is a schismatic group. They are not associated with the Catholic Church, although they pretend to be. Please do not be led astray by their material.

But even they have this part right:

Tell what you did, and the number of times you did it. If you cannot give the exact number, give it as nearly as you can. Tell about how often. **God does not require impossibilities. **Doing the best you can, you need have no fear of telling a lie. To come as nearly as you can to the number is not lying. It is all you can do.

You really need to stop searching this forum and the whole internet for things that you think will help you examine your conscience and make a good confession. Very often, you will run across things that are meant for an entirely different kind of person than yourself, as you have here. There are plenty of people in this world who don’t really give a hoot about confessing their sins at all, let alone sincerely. It is to these people that articles such as this are addressed. For people like you who care so much that you become queasy, as you said, this kind of thing is very harmful. Don’t read this kind of stuff!! Shy away from it as you would from pornography.

Is your priest aware of the suffering you experience as a result of your scruples? Does he know how serious it is, or do you agonize alone and online, but confess as if you were a normal, non-scrupulous person? If that is what you do, he cannot help you without a miracle of the Holy Spirit. You must tell him how much you suffer, so that he can apply the proper medicine to your soul. As another poster told you, do not worry about whether he is orthodox or not. If you only have access to one priest, you can be sure he is the one chosen especially for you by God.

Are you able to order a book online, or have it ordered from your local bookstore? If so, please get yourself this book. You are in desperate need of learning how much God loves you.

And here is a link to the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Read through the pages and see how much Jesus wants to pour out His Mercy on you.

Betsy

 

[S_V7]

Their a schismatic group really? I had no idea.

I have told both of the preists at my parish that I am very scrupulous and always say ‘I think it was a mortal sin but I don’t know’. I’m not too sure if they took me too seriously when I said I was very scrupulous, but I hope to make that clear at my next confession. I’m hoping for an appointment soon so I can just get help and wipe my past for good.

I would love to read any helpful books but I’m not exactly allowed to buy things over the net. My parents are a bit hesitanat to beleive it’s safe but o well.

I will look into that Divine Mercy Chaplet though:thumbsup:

 

[JimG]

You should really take Betsey’s advice when she says “Don’t read this kind of stuff!”
For the scrupulous person some types of pious writing pose a great danger. Even reading the distinctions made by moral theologians is a danger to you.

I have told both of the preists at my parish that I am very scrupulous and always say ‘I think it was a mortal sin but I don’t know’.

You see, even the fact that you can say that, the fact that you are unsure about many things–that means that those things are NOT mortal sins.

Scrupulous persons often turn the sacrament of penance into a kind of magical rite, a Harry Potter bit of sorcery wherein you must get every word and every detail correct, or it won’t work.

But that’s not the case. The sacrament works because it is given by Christ. Every detail, every recital of sins, doesn’t have to follow a particular formula, or be exactly precise. The absolution forgives ALL your sins. If you accept that then you can " wipe my past for good." That means that once you have received absolution at your next confession, you must be willing to let go of the past entirely.

 

[mommyof4]

I’ll say one more thing, and then shut up. (What a relief, huh?) SV7, I would suggest that you go to this site here: mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm

and read

1. the 10 commandments for the scrupulous person; and
2. read through the newsletters in the archives; these are very helpful for the scrupulous person, like myself. There is a lot of direction there for an examnation of conscience for the scrupulous person, and a lot of information on confession in general.

These newsletters have been like a lifeline for me when my scruples seem to be getting the best of me.

 

[S_V7]

I know that site would do wonders for me, it’s just that I don’t have the PDF thing or whatever, and I need to ask my parents to download it .I have read the 10 commandments for the scrupulous and they help tremedously but I sometimes can’t bring myself to follow them. Like repeating my confession or mentioning doubtful sins, I just can’t trust myself. My last confession I did not confess an embarassing detail of a temptaion that I doubted was a even a sin and I know feel like my confession was invalid. (my conscience was going insane as he absolved me). I just need a good long talk with my confessor.

And before my scrupules mess up another confession, can someone please clarify how to commit an invalid confession so that I’ll avoid it? Here’s what I’ve scraped up:

1. Knowigly concealing a mortal sin (not doubtful sins correct?)
   (how about concealing details of a sin?)
2. Being too lax with an examination of conscience (which is what I’m scared of now, that I won’t make a good enough effort)

3.Being too general and not counting one’s sins. (another fear of mine, I’ve been very general about serious sins in the past and haven’t exactly counted them)

1. Not being contrite and not determiend to avoid sin in the future, or make restitutions. (another reason for my fear of invalid past confessions)

I’m really thinking about taking a break from the internet (much needed) and gather my wits.

 

[mommyof4]

I know that site would do wonders for me, it’s just that I don’t have the PDF thing or whatever, and I need to ask my parents to download it .I have read the 10 commandments for the scrupulous and they help tremedously but I sometimes can’t bring myself to follow them. Like repeating my confession or mentioning doubtful sins, I just can’t trust myself. My last confession I did not confess an embarassing detail of a temptaion that I doubted was a even a sin and I know feel like my confession was invalid. (my conscience was going insane as he absolved me). I just need a good long talk with my confessor.

And before my scrupules mess up another confession, can someone please clarify how to commit an invalid confession so that I’ll avoid it? Here’s what I’ve scraped up:

1. Knowigly concealing a mortal sin (not doubtful sins correct?)
   (how about concealing details of a sin?)
2. Being too lax with an examination of conscience (which is what I’m scared of now, that I won’t make a good enough effort)

3.Being too general and not counting one’s sins. (another fear of mine, I’ve been very general about serious sins in the past and haven’t exactly counted them)

1. Not being contrite and not determiend to avoid sin in the future, or make restitutions. (another reason for my fear of invalid past confessions)

I’m really thinking about taking a break from the internet (much needed) and gather my wits.

Stop. You’re feeding the monster of scrupulosity. Go talk to your priest, tell him your concerns, and sort it out with him. Really, it’s the best thing to do.

And you can download the pdf from Acrobat reader.

 

[jmcrae]

I just need a good long talk with my confessor.

Yes, this would help you.

And before my scrupules mess up another confession, can someone please clarify how to commit an invalid confession so that I’ll avoid it? Here’s what I’ve scraped up:

1. Knowigly concealing a mortal sin (not doubtful sins correct?)
   (how about concealing details of a sin?)

If the priest doesn’t ask for details, then he doesn’t need or want to know them. That’s why he’s there - to help you.

1. Being too lax with an examination of conscience (which is what I’m scared of now, that I won’t make a good enough effort)

I actually doubt that. If you went through the Examen and nothing jumped out at you, then you have no mortal sins. You will always remember having committed a mortal sin - it’s not something you can “forget” doing. Kind of like chopping off your hand - it’s something you notice, if you’ve done it.

3.Being too general and not counting one’s sins. (another fear of mine, I’ve been very general about serious sins in the past and haven’t exactly counted them)

Again, if the priest doesn’t ask about this, then you’re okay - if he thinks you’re holding back, he will ask.

1. Not being contrite and not determiend to avoid sin in the future, or make restitutions. (another reason for my fear of invalid past confessions)

If you weren’t sorry enough, then you wouldn’t go to Confession in the first place. Don’t doubt yourself. If nobody is actually pushing you into the Confessional, then you are there by your own free will, which means that you have the right kind of sorrow for sins.

I’m really thinking about taking a break from the internet (much needed) and gather my wits.

That’s also probably a good idea. Don’t forget to go and see your priest. He wants to help you - that’s his job.

 

[Ellen_G]

After reading these responses I would like to mention what St Francis desales said about confession – he stated that we should have a Divine sense of humor ( knowing that we acted without God’s grace and being sorry, we can realize that it’s a wonder that we didn’t do worse ). Perhaps we need to have more catechesis on confession as so many of us have neglected the sacrament for so long, so many don’t even believe in the devil, many do not believe in the Real Presence, etc etc etc. Many have been so influenced by our modern culture that they rationalize in order to justify their behavior. It is hard to be a practicing Christian in today’s world without having a personal encounter with Christ. Our Pope John Paul told one of the clergy that the 2 most important things needed in today’s world were : Personal relationship with Christ and a Sense of Humor – when he was so very ill, one priest in audience with him mentioned to him that he was worried about HIS HOLINESS. With a smile, Pope John Paul responded : I’m worried about my holiness too !
Pope John Paul ll, Pray for us ! ad Jesum per Mariam

 

[S_V7]

okay so I talked to my preist and made a rather lenthy confession. I told him that I had postponed this confession and he asked why, and I tried to answer but came up with the fact that I was preparing for it, but that was only about 25% of the reason. The other 75% was that I was just nervous and dreading the event. He said ok, that I was preparing for it, but I’m not sure I ever mentioned that I was very nervous and anxious about it or that I didn’t use up all that time wisely and better prepared myself, and therefore showed myself in false colors.

What I really need to know is if this would invalidate my confession, that I didn’t mention the biggest reason for postponing this confession and made the preist beleive it was only because I was preparing for it.

oh these horrible scrupules…please help, I need to know the facts about these kinds of situations and any other helpful tidbits.