Confessional Seal question

[Elizabeth502]

[Edited]

Here’s my question. If you go for spiritual direction to a priest, is he bound by any seal? Let’s say you reveal a whole lot to him, but it’s not under the format of a sacramental confession. What then?

 

[puzzleannie]

no but he is bound by the same confidentiality that would apply in any counsellor/client relationship, for instance he could not be forced to testify in a court of law about what you revealed. If in the course of direction you feel you are discussing matter for confession, even if you do not ask for absolution, do ask the priest to consider it in that light, in which case he would be bound by the seal. In fact, he is the one who will probably tell you “we are now talking as if in confession” and then yes the seal would apply. It would also apply if someone went to confession but for some reason could not at that time receive absolution (intent upon remaining in an adulterous relationship, for instance).

[Edited]

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Since I do some spiritual direction I can assure you that the rules of confidentiality are virtually identical to those of confession. They do exceed those of counselor/client because of the spiritual nature of the communication. Legally it’s treated as a “privileged communication” and, as such, the spiritual director cannot be compelled to reveal the contents of such communication.

Since most clerics are very sensitive to the nature of these communications it is simply treated as if it were the seal of confession.

Deacon Ed

 

[Elizabeth502]

Thanks to DeaconEd and puzzleannie. That really helps!

(I especially appreciate the speedy reply!)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

[Edited]

Here’s my question. If you go for spiritual direction to a priest, is he bound by any seal? Let’s say you reveal a whole lot to him, but it’s not under the format of a sacramental confession. What then?

There is no “Sacramental Seal” for Spiritual Direction. What you discuss with him is open for him to use or discuss with someone else. Most Spiritual directors will however observe confidentiality to some extent, but they are not required to do so.

 

[Joannm]

My director told me that whatever I tell him during a session he considers under the seal/

 

[Elizabeth502]

So I’m confused now, and how can I get a definitive answer?

In the past I have used only a current, valid ordained priest as a SD, and would consider only using that in the future, as well. That’s partly because the SD may include confessional material, even if the end result of any session is not the sacrament per se.

It is secondarily because I have been disappointed in all the lay people I have met who call themselves SD’s. They may be fine for lots of people and lots of reasons, but I personally like someone steeped both in moral theology & the practice of prayer as classically understood. A lay person may or may not have those; a priest is more likely to by training. He is also more experienced pastorally than most lay people or female religious are.

 

[Trishie]

Elizabeth please be at peace. If your conversation was confessional your priest would be at serious fault if he betrayed your confidence. I think I’d place anything I said of a confidential nature under the confessional seal, but if you feel uneasy, please contact your Spiritual Director and tell him you wish him to mention nothing to anyone else. I have found that priests consider themselves bound if you state this. If you can contact him, at least you’ll know for certain…but I seriously doubt a priest would betray your confidence.

 

[puzzleannie]

If you have a lay person for a spiritual director, by definition those conversations are not under the seal of the confessional, because there is no way you should be confessing your sins to that person. They would however as I say enjoy the privilege of counsellor/client relationship. The place to be discussing matter for confession is in the confessional with a priest, or if a priest is your SD, beginning or ending your session with confession if appropriate, in which case the entire session will be under the seal.

 

[Elizabeth502]

…except that there’s a third possibility, and that is if the conversation includes questions about whether something is confessional material or not. In that case, the session wouldn’t necessarily either begin or end with a sacramental confession.

(That’s my point.)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

There is no “Sacramental Seal” for Spiritual Direction. What you discuss with him is open for him to use or discuss with someone else. Most Spiritual directors will however observe confidentiality to some extent, but they are not required to do so.

Not only that but as a mandated reporter there are things that must be reported to the relevant authorities.

Also, the seal of confession is not fully recognized by law and the priest can be ordered to divulge what has been said in some cases if the court finds it necessary. It is up to the priest to uphold the seal.

 

[Elizabeth502]

If you have a lay person for a spiritual director, by definition those conversations are not under the seal of the confessional, because there is no way you should be confessing your sins to that person. They would however as I say enjoy the privilege of counsellor/client relationship. The place to be discussing matter for confession is in the confessional with a priest, or if a priest is your SD, beginning or ending your session with confession if appropriate, in which case the entire session will be under the seal.

(Thought I made it clear I’m not seeking a layperson.)
Nor was I considering “confessing my sins” to a layperson.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Not only that but as a mandated reporter there are things that must be reported to the relevant authorities.

Also, the seal of confession is not fully recognized by law and the priest can be ordered to divulge what has been said in some cases if the court finds it necessary. It is up to the priest to uphold the seal.

My goodness: all this talk of mandated reporters and courts of law. Don’t worry folks, it’s not that serious. (I’m not about to ask the priest if murder or child molestation is sinful! Don’t know that by now, and I think the person needs to be re-catechized at the least.)

 

[Chatter163]

Also, the seal of confession is not fully recognized by law and the priest can be ordered to divulge what has been said in some cases if the court finds it necessary.

Examples?

 

[puzzleannie]

Not only that but as a mandated reporter there are things that must be reported to the relevant authorities.

Also, the seal of confession is not fully recognized by law and the priest can be ordered to divulge what has been said in some cases if the court finds it necessary. It is up to the priest to uphold the seal.

a priest will die rather than reveal what is said in confession, and many have done so. If he should reveal a confession he is automatically excommunicated and will receive the most severe canonically penalty, removal from the priesthood

 

[puzzleannie]

(Thought I made it clear I’m not seeking a layperson.)
Nor was I considering “confessing my sins” to a layperson.

actually it was not clear, given your further questions on the topic, If I am not being helpful I apologize

 

[Elizabeth502]

actually it was not clear, given your further questions on the topic, If I am not being helpful I apologize

"In the past I have used only a current, valid ordained priest as a SD, and would consider only using that in the future, as well"

(From a post of mine on this thread.)

You’re being helpful; it’s just that I see contradictions in the replies.

 

[Aramis]

So I’m confused now, and how can I get a definitive answer?

Your spiritual director and the chancery…

It varies by local law, by the diocesan policy, and by the specific spiritual director.

Not all states extend the client-counselor privilege to unlicensed practitioners.

All states (as far as I’ve heard) accept the confessional seal; not all extend it to counseling.

So start by asking you Spiritual Director.

 

[Joannm]

It is secondarily because I have been disappointed in all the lay people I have met who call themselves SD’s. They may be fine for lots of people and lots of reasons, but I personally like someone steeped both in moral theology & the practice of prayer as classically understood. A lay person may or may not have those; a priest is more likely to by training. He is also more experienced pastorally than most lay people or female religious are.

You would be surprised at the number of lay people now days that have have just the same or more experience (except for sacramental moments) than the average priest. Many are just as steeped in moral theology and the practice of prayer. Also it doesn’t mean that a priest is more pastoral necessarily. I have experienced many priests who really need work in that area.

I have chosen a priest for a director, mainly because I had come to know and trust him before he became my director and he seemed to have a sense of what I needed from him more than other directors I have had. One thing to watch out for is directors who seem to treat it as a “business,” almost like a social worker or therapist. It is also important to get recommendations and not just choose someone because you like them. I had heard several good things about my director before I started going to him for direction (even though I knew him for a few years). Given my difficulty with trust, I needed to know that he was good. What I like about him is that he challenges me but never tells me what to do. He makes suggestions (like passages to pray with or things to do for Lent), but also helps me to determine the spiritual path that the Spirit is leading me on…not his particular path that I should follow because I am his directee.

My director is also my confessor, but sometimes that can get in the way. I have heard it said where one should choose a different director than one’s confessor (I have heard this from priests). I guess there are some good reasons for that.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

My goodness: all this talk of mandated reporters and courts of law. Don’t worry folks, it’s not that serious. (I’m not about to ask the priest if murder or child molestation is sinful! Don’t know that by now, and I think the person needs to be re-catechized at the least.)

Hi,

You need to find a SD/counselor that you trust. If you need to ask these questions, it is better to find another. If you are speaking of the actions of another person. let them go for the counseling, if they wish—it is better for you to stay out of it. Mention your concern, and let them do what they need to do.

Counseling is a very personal thing—what is good for one person, may not be good for another. I gave up on counseling because I couldn’t find the right one, but I was helped to some extent by the counselors I tried.

Peace.

Lux