Confimation Advice/Logic behind waiting

[H_Opey]

We are “reverts” to the faith and have just recently (last 4 years) started taking our faith seriously. We are homsechooling our children and in the curriculum, they are being prepared early for confirmation. We want them confirmed next year. They will be 13 and almost 11. We want the graces that the sacrament confer. We think they need them sooner, not later.

1. Our diocese confims in the 11th and 12th grade
2. Our pastor said “OK IF the Bishop says OK”
3. As of today, we have not heard from the Bishop and our pastor bascially brushes us off. (we wrote to the Bishop almost a year ago)

If it is our understanding that the teaching of the faith starts FIRST with the parents, that is it is our responsibility, then why can’t we have our children confirmed early? The arguments we hear in favor of the later age is that the children would stop going to religious education at the parish if it were not mandatory. But if it is our responsiblity, then why don’t we have the opportunity to reap what is sown? Such as, if child is confirmed early and we take no initiative to make sure they are learning their faith, then the responsibility rests with us. Are we missing something behind the logic or do we really NOT have the responsibility to educate our children?

I would ask for your prayers as this is very stressful and hard for me.

 

[stbruno]

usccb.org/norms/891.htm

Here is the link regarding the age of confirmation according to Canon Law deemed by the US Council of Catholic bishops. the key is the local bishop’s discretion, not parents. Hope this helps.

 

[1ke]

Because we must all be obedient to the Bishop

If the Bishop has set a different age for Confirmation than the age at which you would like your children confirmed it is within his authority to do so. It’s a good lesson to teach your kids-- obediece to the authority of the church.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We are “reverts” to the faith and have just recently (last 4 years) started taking our faith seriously. We are homsechooling our children and in the curriculum, they are being prepared early for confirmation. We want them confirmed next year. They will be 13 and almost 11. We want the graces that the sacrament confer. We think they need them sooner, not later.

1. Our diocese confims in the 11th and 12th grade
2. Our pastor said “OK IF the Bishop says OK”
3. As of today, we have not heard from the Bishop and our pastor bascially brushes us off. (we wrote to the Bishop almost a year ago)

If it is our understanding that the teaching of the faith starts FIRST with the parents, that is it is our responsibility, then why can’t we have our children confirmed early? The arguments we hear in favor of the later age is that the children would stop going to religious education at the parish if it were not mandatory. But if it is our responsiblity, then why don’t we have the opportunity to reap what is sown? Such as, if child is confirmed early and we take no initiative to make sure they are learning their faith, then the responsibility rests with us. Are we missing something behind the logic or do we really NOT have the responsibility to educate our children?

I would ask for your prayers as this is very stressful and hard for me.

Keep in mind that Confirmation is your childs decision, not yours. It is their commitment to the faith, not yours, that allows them to receive Confirmation.

Having them wait probably has to do with allowing them to understand the commitment they are making, and to receive the Sacrament as part of the community.

Jim

 

[H_Opey]

Jim, thank you. But they want it to. And they wrote the Bishop also. I used to think that maturity came with age till I read this from the CCC:

1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective. St. Thomas reminds us of this:

Age of body does not determine age of soul. Even in childhood man can attain spiritual maturity: as the book of Wisdom says: "For old age is not honored for length of time, or measured by number of years. "Many children, through the strength of the Holy Spirit they have received, have bravely fought for Christ even to the shedding of their blood.126

 

[puzzleannie]

it is the Bishop who calls candidates for Confirmation, not the candidate or the parents who decide when they will be confirmed. That perogative belongs to the Bishop alone. No one may confirm who does not have the faculty to confirm granted by the bishop.

The priest who baptizes adults (over age 7) at the Easter Vigil has the faculty to confirm, and must confirm all those adults whom he baptizes at the same ceremony.

Another circumstance under which children under the age set by the bishop for baptized youth might be confirmed at a younger age is when they have been baptized into another Christian denomination, and are received into full communion with the Catholic Church, either at Easter or another time designated by the pastor, either alone, with a group of peers, or as part of a whole family who is being received into the church.

A third example is a child in danger of death, with a disability that lowers life expectancy, facing dangerous surgery etc. That child should be confirmed asap.

 

[H_Opey]

Thank you Puzzleannie.
What did you mean by this:
it is the Bishop who calls candidates for Confirmation

It is the Bishop to decide the age, in his diocese, but I am not fully understanding what you mean.

Thank you and God Bless

 

[H_Opey]

Also,the LOGIC behind waiting to confirm children is because they will not continue in parish education class if they are confirmed at an early age.
Have any of you heard this? Is this a rumor?

1ke you are right in we have to obey the Bishop. Maybe this is an oportunity for us all. I still ask for your prayers please as it is easy for me to give this advice, but very hard to not be bitter and resentful.

 

[puzzleannie]

Thank you Puzzleannie.
What did you mean by this:
it is the Bishop who calls candidates for Confirmation

It is the Bishop to decide the age, in his diocese, but I am not fully understanding what you mean.

Thank you and God Bless

just what it says,
the bishop calls the candidates for confirmation, just as he calls the catechumens for election, that is his ancient perogative from the early days of the Church, and is essential in understanding the theology of the sacrament of confirmation, why the practice of confirmation developed somewhat differently in the west than chrismation did in the east, why confirmation became separated in time (although not in theology) from baptism, and why the bishop is the one and only person who can say when you will be confirmed.

we have had several discussions on liturgy and sacraments on confirmation, ideal age for confirmation, restoring the original order of sacraments of initiation, practice in east vs west, in the last couple of months, so a search on “confirmation” will yield some very interesting material for you.

 

[H_Opey]

Thank you puzzleannie. Will do.

 

[rwoehmke]

Keep in mind that Confirmation is your childs decision, not yours. It is their commitment to the faith, not yours, that allows them to receive Confirmation.
Having them wait probably has to do with allowing them to understand the commitment they are making, and to receive the Sacrament as part of the community.
Jim

This is the problem. In many protestant Faiths this committment is the over riding factor in the definition of Confirmation which in those Churches is not generally considered a Sacrament. This has crept into the Catholic Church since Vatican II. In the Sacrament the Holy Spirit acts to reinforce the virtues given in Baptism and to prepare the confirmand to more fully live the Faith and proclaim the Gospel. Since it is obvious that in the Eastern Rites that Chrismation is done along with Baptism the affirmation of the confirmand has nothing to do with it. It has been the practice in the Latin Rite that anyone to be confirmed usually is taught about what our Faith entails even the 3rd and 4th graders in some dioceses. The business nabout after Confirmation they never come back is all too true in many cases, but it is not in my opinion a good reason for delaying the Sacrament. The Bishop rules however so we just suck it up and live with it…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This is the problem. In many protestant Faiths this committment is the over riding factor in the definition of Confirmation which in those Churches is not generally considered a Sacrament. This has crept into the Catholic Church since Vatican II. In the Sacrament the Holy Spirit acts to reinforce the virtues given in Baptism and to prepare the confirmed to more fully live the Faith and proclaim the Gospel. Since it is obvious that in the Eastern Rites that Chrismation is done along with Baptism the affirmation of the confirmand has nothing to do with it. It has been the practice in the Latin Rite that anyone to be confirmed usually is taught about what our Faith entails even the 3rd and 4th graders in some dioceses. The business nabout after Confirmation they never come back is all too true in many cases, but it is not in my opinion a good reason for delaying the Sacrament. The Bishop rules however so we just suck it up and live with it…

In the Catholic Church, there must be faith for the reception of both sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. The Church baptizes infants, but it is out the faith of the parents, for the infant does not yet have faith. However, once the child reaches the age of reason,(which is determined by the local Bishop), and is able to express their commitment to their faith, they may be Confirmed. At Confirmation, the candidates all must renew the Baptismal promises which were made for them, by their parents and God parents.

It is clear that the Church requires faith, for the reception of Confirmation and in fact, it’s how Confirmation candidates are instructed for the preparation of Confirmation.

Forced reception of the Sacrament, because the parents are mandating it, is not accepted in the Catholic Church today, despite the fact that in the past, pre-Vatican II, it was.

Jim

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

In the Catholic Church, there must be faith for the reception of both sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. The Church baptizes infants, but it is out the faith of the parents, for the infant does not yet have faith. However, once the child reaches the age of reason,(which is determined by the local Bishop), and is able to express their commitment to their faith, they may be Confirmed. At Confirmation, the candidates all must renew the Baptismal promises which were made for them, by their parents and God parents.

It is clear that the Church requires faith, for the reception of Confirmation and in fact, it’s how Confirmation candidates are instructed for the preparation of Confirmation.

Forced reception of the Sacrament, because the parents are mandating it, is not accepted in the Catholic Church today, despite the fact that in the past, pre-Vatican II, it was.

Jim

Anybody over the age of reason has to DESIRE (want) reception of a sacrament. Nobody can force anybody over the age of seven to receive a sacrament. They can persuade a person, but they can’t force. OpeyH’s kids have that desire. OpeyH’s bishop does not.

HOWEVER, and this is the point that leads to confusion with most people, it is the bishop who confirms and seals baptism; a better word might be ratifies baptism. The confirmandi are not confirming their faith, no matter how wrong-headed some confirmation instruction might be. The parents are not confirming their children’s faith, even if they finagle the kids with promises of iPods and beyond if only they’ll get confirmed for Mom & Dad. The bishop is the ordinary minister of the sacrament- not the kids, not the parents.

This is why it would be better if the Latin Church took a tip from our Eastern Rite siblings, and reinstituted Confirmation along with Baptism and First Holy Communion of infants.

Yes, it would mean no more sweet little parades of children in white dresses and suits. Yes, it would mean we would no longer have to wrangle teens into confirmation classes to jump through a series of hoops to prove their intent and worthiness.

But maybe those same kids would have the extra grace to live a better life in this world. Parents who send kids to CCD would send them in any event, and those who don’t won’t be burdened, as long as it appears to the priest that the child will be brought up Catholic during the baptismal phase. And even Eastern Rite kids need to learn to go to confession around the age of reason.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Anybody over the age of reason has to DESIRE (want) reception of a sacrament. Nobody can force anybody over the age of seven to receive a sacrament. They can persuade a person, but they can’t force. OpeyH’s kids have that desire. OpeyH’s bishop does not.

HOWEVER, and this is the point that leads to confusion with most people, it is the bishop who confirms and seals baptism; a better word might be ratifies baptism. The confirmandi are not confirming their faith, no matter how wrong-headed some confirmation instruction might be. The parents are not confirming their children’s faith, even if they finagle the kids with promises of iPods and beyond if only they’ll get confirmed for Mom & Dad. The bishop is the ordinary minister of the sacrament- not the kids, not the parents.

This is why it would be better if the Latin Church took a tip from our Eastern Rite siblings, and reinstituted Confirmation along with Baptism and First Holy Communion of infants.

Yes, it would mean no more sweet little parades of children in white dresses and suits. Yes, it would mean we would no longer have to wrangle teens into confirmation classes to jump through a series of hoops to prove their intent and worthiness.

But maybe those same kids would have the extra grace to live a better life in this world. Parents who send kids to CCD would send them in any event, and those who don’t won’t be burdened, as long as it appears to the priest that the child will be brought up Catholic during the baptismal phase. And even Eastern Rite kids need to learn to go to confession around the age of reason.

Actually the candidates are confirming their faith. Anyone who would go to their parish priest and say, “I’m receiving the sacrament, but I don’t believe.” would not receive the sacrament. Confirming an infant would pretty much be confirming a person who has not expressed the desire to be confirmed.

Jim

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Actually the candidates are confirming their faith. Anyone who would go to their parish priest and say, “I’m receiving the sacrament, but I don’t believe.” would not receive the sacrament. Confirming an infant would pretty much be confirming a person who has not expressed the desire to be confirmed.

Jim

They are presenting themselves to be confirmed, and that might be a profession of faith. They are asked to renew their baptismal vows, but that is done at Easter time as well. Yet, it is a profession of faith.

BUT

The bishop is the one doing the confirming. The bishop extends his hands. The bishop annoints. The bishop lays hands on the candidate. The bishop pronounces, “be sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit.”

So no. They might profess faith, but they do not confirm it. And again, this confusion would not exist if the West confirmed infants as they do in the East, and start calling it Chrismation. Infants are confirmed in the Eastern Rites all the time, and they are still very much Catholic, and they are still very much confirmed; in fact, some Mexican Western bishops confirm infants, and they are very much confirmed, to the point where they are **not **reconfirmed when their anglo classmates are confirmed at 12, 14, 16, 18.

From the CCC:

1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective.

1316 Confirmation perfects Baptismal grace; it is the sacrament which gives the Holy Spirit in order to root us more deeply in the divine filiation, incorporate us more firmly into Christ, strengthen our bond with the Church, associate us more closely with her mission, and help us bear witness to the Christian faith in words accompanied by deeds.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

They are presenting themselves to be confirmed, and that might be a profession of faith. They are asked to renew their baptismal vows, but that is done at Easter time as well. Yet, it is a profession of faith.

BUT

The bishop is the one doing the confirming. The bishop extends his hands. The bishop annoints. The bishop lays hands on the candidate. The bishop pronounces, “be sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit.”

So no. They might profess faith, but they do not confirm it. And again, this confusion would not exist if the West confirmed infants as they do in the East, and start calling it Chrismation. Infants are confirmed in the Eastern Rites all the time, and they are still very much Catholic, and they are still very much confirmed; in fact, some Mexican Western bishops confirm infants, and they are very much confirmed, to the point where they are **not **reconfirmed when their anglo classmates are confirmed at 12, 14, 16, 18.

From the CCC:

1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective.

1316 Confirmation perfects Baptismal grace; it is the sacrament which gives the Holy Spirit in order to root us more deeply in the divine filiation, incorporate us more firmly into Christ, strengthen our bond with the Church, associate us more closely with her mission, and help us bear witness to the Christian faith in words accompanied by deeds.

Agreed!

“Profess” would have been the proper word here.

Jim

 

[KCT]

I do find it interesting that bishops, pastors, DRE’s etc believe 2nd graders can comprehend Transubstatiation and receive the Eucharist but middle school age kids “aren’t ready for”, or “can’t really comprehend” Confirmation. —KCT

 

[H_Opey]

KCT,
I am scratching my head. That is why I wondered if what we hear as to the logic was just a rumor (kids dropping out of RE classes so therefore it is moved to JR/SR year). Of course, they comprehend at their “age” level and IF they continue to learn about their faith, then that will deepen.
It is ultimately up to the Bishop to decide the age in his diocese. I think, though, that some thought should be given to the reception of confirmation being at the same time as Baptism.
That sure would clear up some confusion. E.G. Parents returning/joining Church, young children of 9, 11 and 13 FULLY received into the Church along with parents. This is entirely up to the pastor and Bishop, I know.

 

[Ceil-1]

Boy, your story is about parallel to mine. Only, with us, we can confirm at 13, but the preparation is a joke. It is really lacking in substance.

It seems to me that if your children desire to be confirmed it is their right. However, if the bishop won’t do it, there isn’t a whole lot you can do to force him.

You could try the “back door” method, as I have had to do in the past. In our old diocese, the fad is to give the kids First Communion and go with First Confession a couple of years down the road. Oh, they had a whole list of reasons for this philosophy. This was unacceptable to us. So, we asked the young, African priest who was helping in the parish to hear his confession the day before, and he did.

At the Easter Vigil, the priest is given the go ahead to confirm. Kids taking the RCIC get confirmation at that time. Why not enroll them in it under the excuse that you have returned to the Church, and have them confirmed then? It is a beautiful ceremony. If your pastor won’t do it, find a priest who wil. Ask your fellow homeschoolers, they’ll know who to send you to. Then, sign up at that parish. You are allowed to have dual membership, you know.

The Church is so worried about losing people, they don’t see the forest for the trees. They should examen each candidate individually to see if they are ready for Confirmation, but that would be too much trouble. So, to make up for their lack of ability to inspire people by offering dynamic ongoing instruction for teens and young people, they put the essential Sacraments out of reach of those who desire it.

You are on the right track, keep up the good work.

 

[puzzleannie]

I do find it interesting that bishops, pastors, DRE’s etc believe 2nd graders can comprehend Transubstatiation and receive the Eucharist but middle school age kids “aren’t ready for”, or “can’t really comprehend” Confirmation. —KCT

for the last time, the decision on the age for Confirmation rests with the BISHOP, not the pastor, not the DRE, not the parish secretary. Please don’t blame us for trying to do our jobs. What is even more incongruous is the fact that at the same time I am preparing 14 children (2 yr program) and 5 adults (1 year program) for all 3 sacraments of initiation at Easter, I am preparing 70 HS students (including several with special needs) for Confirmation in April (2 year program), 22 adults for Confirmation in June via the standard 1 yr program, and now thanks to a new program just implemented, 14 adults (via an 8 week program) for Confirmation and First communion in May.

RCIA is NOT confirmation prep, and none of the acronyms we use to assist our record keeping make it so. RCIA is a specific process, with specific stages, and specific goals and actions for each stage.

Confirmation preparation is whatever it needs to be (ideally) for the person being confirmed. As I have said many times before I am quite sure twisting ourselves into pretzels meeting the needs in terms of catechesis, conversion of life, not to mention work schedules etc. more often than not fails to meet those needs. If you are not getting what you want in your parish, try another parish, but please understand, everything we do is according to canon law, as intepreted and applied by our bishop.