Confirmation brings one into full communion, right?

[diggerdomer]

I’m not sure how it’s “different” for baptized non-Catholics.

When I was brought into the Church, we made our Profession of Faith and then went to First Confession, before going to the Easter Vigil. We then repeated our Profession of Faith at the Easter Vigil, but the one that “counted” for becoming Catholic was the one we did in the morning, before First Confession.

As far as I know, baptized non-Catholics are expected to go to Confession before they receive Confirmation and First Holy Communion. If an appointment isn’t set for them by the RCIA leaders, they are expected to set their own appointments. I assume they make their Profession of Faith at an RCIA meeting prior to when they are expected to be going for First Confession.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Much of what you say though is not required by the Church. It is not wrong; but it’s not required.

 

[diggerdomer]

That is the standard interpetation of 916

*Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord **without previous sacramental confession ***unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

Are you saying Canon 916 applies to non-Catholics?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Are you saying Canon 916 applies to non-Catholics?

Non-catholics are not to receive whether in a state of grace or not

{ late add}
Maybe I misunderstood you: A christian converting to catholism would have to comply with 916, which is a continous standard applied to eucharist celebrations

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Non-catholics are not to receive whether in a state of grace or not

{ late add}
Maybe I misunderstood you: A christian converting to catholism would have to comply with 916, which is a continous standard applied to all eucharistic celebrations

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Thanks for your opinion.

Can you show us where in Church teaching or practice it’s required for a non-Catholic Christian being received into full communion of the Catholic Church to celebrate Reconciliation prior to Eucharist?

Thanks for the clarification when you have a chance.

From the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults:

1. If the profession of faith and reception take place within Mass, the candidate, according to his or her own conscience, should make a confession of sins beforehand, first informing the confessor that he or she is about to be received into full communion. Any confessor who is lawfully approved may hear the candidate’s confession.

From the Catechism:

1385
To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

1457
According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

From canon law:

Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

 

[diggerdomer]

From the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults:

1. If the profession of faith and reception take place within Mass, the candidate, according to his or her own conscience, should make a confession of sins beforehand, first informing the confessor that he or she is about to be received into full communion. Any confessor who is lawfully approved may hear the candidate’s confession.

From the Catechism:

1385
To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

1457
According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

From canon law:

Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

Thanks!

So from the sources you cite, it’s up to the individual’s conscience?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Are you saying Canon 916 applies to non-Catholics?

At the point where they’ve made a profession of faith and been confirmed, they are Catholic. Even children have to go to confession prior to receiving their First Communion. Why would it be different for adults?

 

[diggerdomer]

I may have been mistaken, I found in the National Statues for the Catechumenate, from the NCCB (1986) para 36 that it seems the NCCB may be requiring adults being received into full communion to celebrate reconciliation prior to initiation. It’s not entirely clear to me, but I wasn’t aware of that statement before. So at least in the U.S. I guess it’s common practice and may even be required.

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for your opinion.

Can you show us where in Church teaching or practice it’s required for a non-Catholic Christian being received into full communion of the Catholic Church to celebrate Reconciliation prior to Eucharist?

Thanks for the clarification when you have a chance.

The Roman Ritual revised by the decree of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council and published by the authority of Pope Paul VI, the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, #528-530 (English translation of 1987) says,

The Sacrament of Penance

528: In the early Church, the Sacrament of Penance was regarded as a “second baptism.” St. Ambrose remarked that “the Church possesses both water and tears: the water of baptism and the tears of penance.” In the case of the baptized who have completed a period of formation and are ready to complete their initiation, the sacrament of penance may occupy a place similar to the sacrament of baptism for the elect.

**Candidates are encouraged, according to their individual consciences, to make a confession of sins before being received into full communion or completing their initiation. **

529: The sacrament of penance may be celebrated according to the Rite of Reconciliation of Several Penitents with Individual Confessions and Absolution, or according to the Rite for Reconciliation of Individual Penitents. (A helpful outline for the reconciliation of an individual person is given in Sunday Mass Book, pages 1114-1115. Other prayers and suggestions are contained on pages 1107, 1117, and 1309-1316.)

530: Is is appropriate for the candidates to recite the creed before or after the sacrament of penance. Likewise, it is appropriate for the candidates to be presented with the lighted baptismal candle after the sacrament of penance. Any other rites associated with baptism (ephetha rite, anointings, and the reception of the white garment) are to be omitted.

This is an authoritative document of the Church; it is not merely someone’s “opinion.”

Further, there is a distinction between someone who has undergone a period of formation for Initiation into the Church who has not yet been received into the Church, and a non-Catholic. Candidates entering the Church are already, in a sense, “Catholic,” even though they have not yet received the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion. (Indeed, their status is similar to that of Catholic children under the age of seven, since they are baptized, and are being instructed in the faith, without yet being permitted to receive the Sacraments.)

 

[diggerdomer]

The Roman Ritual revised by the decree of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council and published by the authority of Pope Paul VI, the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, #528-530 (English translation of 1987) says,

The Sacrament of Penance

528: In the early Church, the Sacrament of Penance was regarded as a “second baptism.” St. Ambrose remarked that “the Church possesses both water and tears: the water of baptism and the tears of penance.” In the case of the baptized who have completed a period of formation and are ready to complete their initiation, the sacrament of penance may occupy a place similar to the sacrament of baptism for the elect.

Candidates are encouraged, according to their individual consciences, to make a confession of sins before being received into full communion or completing their initiation.

529: The sacrament of penance may be celebrated according to the Rite of Reconciliation of Several Penitents with Individual Confessions and Absolution, or according to the Rite for Reconciliation of Individual Penitents. (A helpful outline for the reconciliation of an individual person is given in Sunday Mass Book, pages 1114-1115. Other prayers and suggestions are contained on pages 1107, 1117, and 1309-1316.)

530: Is is appropriate for the candidates to recite the creed before or after the sacrament of penance. Likewise, it is appropriate for the candidates to be presented with the lighted baptismal candle after the sacrament of penance. Any other rites associated with baptism (ephetha rite, anointings, and the reception of the white garment) are to be omitted.

This is an authoritative document of the Church; it is not merely someone’s “opinion.”

Further, there is a distinction between someone who has undergone a period of formation for Initiation into the Church who has not yet been received into the Church, and a non-Catholic. Candidates entering the Church are already, in a sense, “Catholic,” even though they have not yet received the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion. (Indeed, their status is similar to that of Catholic children under the age of seven, since they are baptized, and are being instructed in the faith, without yet being permitted to receive the Sacraments.)

I understand the document. My point, as you highlighted yourself, is:

Candidates are encouraged, according to their individual consciences, to make a confession of sins before being received into full communion or completing their initiation.

This is not an absolute requirement. This is an encouragement, based on one’s individual conscience.

Does that help clarify my point?

I’m not questioning Church teaching.

 

[Avery77]

Just to clear things up for a couple of posters who inquired:

I’m a baptized non-Catholic, and yep, I’ve made my first confession (never felt better than I did after that), divorced, but not re-married.

Maybe I’m being “scrupulous”… but there was confusion over what impact divorce had on my being received into the Church, and although it’s been cleared up, I’m paranoid that someone got something wrong somewhere and I’ll be confirmed, receive first communion, and then find out that I wasn’t supposed to after all and there ya go, mortal sin (unworthily receiving the Eucharist).

I’ve been assured that divorce itself isn’t an issue, but elsewhere (in the Cathechism, I believe) I read that even without re-marriage, divorce is a sin. Am I wrong?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I understand the document. My point, as you highlighted yourself, is:

Candidates are encouraged, according to their individual consciences, to make a confession of sins before being received into full communion or completing their initiation.

This is not an absolute requirement. This is an encouragement, based on one’s individual conscience.

Does that help clarify my point?

I’m not questioning Church teaching.

I don’t understand why this is such an issue for you. If someone has committed a mortal sin at any point in their life after baptism and before First Eucharist, they must confess it and receive absolution. This is “according to their individual consciences” – they examine their conscience to determine if they have sinned. The Church teaches that it is wrong to receive communion in a state of mortal sin.

I’ve been assured that divorce itself isn’t an issue, but elsewhere (in the Cathechism, I believe) I read that even without re-marriage, divorce is a sin. Am I wrong?

That’s what confession is for. Or more precisely, that’s what absolution is for.

 

[jmcrae]

I understand the document. My point, as you highlighted yourself, is:

Candidates are encouraged, according to their individual consciences, to make a confession of sins before being received into full communion or completing their initiation.

This is not an absolute requirement. This is an encouragement, based on one’s individual conscience.

Yes - just exactly as it is for a Catholic child who is receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation or First Holy Communion, and for any Catholic who is preparing to receive Holy Communion at any Mass. No one can be forced to go to Confession against their will, and no one can be required to make a Confession, if they are not conscious of having committed any sins.

Does that help clarify my point?

It seems like you are still perceiving a difference between Candidates (baptized non-Catholics who have received formation in the Catholic faith) and persons born into Catholic families who are receiving the Sacraments of Initiation.

In reality, there is no difference, with regard to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Seven year olds receiving First Holy Communion and 11 year olds receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation are “strongly encouraged” (but not “required”) to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation shortly beforehand. Just as Candidates entering the Church for the first time are “strongly encouraged” (but not “required”) to do the same.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve been assured that divorce itself isn’t an issue, but elsewhere (in the Cathechism, I believe) I read that even without re-marriage, divorce is a sin. Am I wrong?

It’s definitely matter for the Confessional, but it is not something that can bar you from the Sacraments, once you’ve been absolved of it - the divorce is over, and once you’ve Confessed it and been Absolved of it, so is the sin aspect of it.

Obviously, you will be living with the material consequences of the sin for the rest of your life, but the actual “sin” part will be gone.

 

[diggerdomer]

I don’t understand why this is such an issue for you. If someone has committed a mortal sin at any point in their life after baptism and before First Eucharist, they must confess it and receive absolution. This is “according to their individual consciences” – they examine their conscience to determine if they have sinned. The Church teaches that it is wrong to receive communion in a state of mortal sin.

Yes, of course. No question there.

My question arose because I got the impression that some were being told they HAD to go celebrate Reconciliation prior to Initiation…with no mention of whether or not serious (grave, mortal) sin was involved.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, of course. No question there.

My question arose because I got the impression that some were being told they HAD to go celebrate Reconciliation prior to Initiation…with no mention of whether or not serious (grave, mortal) sin was involved.

Perhaps the person was referring to him- or herself as “having” to go, because he or she was conscious of sins that needed to be confessed. In such a case “have to” is, in fact, the proper term.

I’m finding it difficult to imagine arriving at adulthood, and then examining one’s life in a serious way, and finding nothing to confess - but I suppose it could happen.

 

[diggerdomer]

. No one can be forced to go to Confession against their will, and no one can be required to make a Confession, if they are not conscious of having committed any sins. .

This is my concern.

I think many dioceses REQUIRE people to celebrate Reconciliation prior to “first communion” as a blanket policy. No mention of if the individual is conscious of any (grave) sin. Refer to this letter from the Vatican:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_19770331_penance-communion_en.html

All the dioceses I’ve lived in during the past 20 years have followed this policy, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

This is my concern.

I think many dioceses REQUIRE people to celebrate Reconciliation prior to “first communion” as a blanket policy. No mention of if the individual is conscious of any (grave) sin. Refer to this letter from the Vatican:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_19770331_penance-communion_en.html

All the dioceses I’ve lived in during the past 20 years have followed this policy, to the best of my knowledge.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You are citing a Vatican document saying that children must go to confession prior to their First Communion. What is your point? Do you think the Vatican decision was wrong? Or that what applies to children shouldn’t also apply to adults? Or that it should? Or what?

I’m getting the impression that you think Confirmation forgives sins the way Baptism does. It doesn’t.

 

[jmcrae]

This is my concern.

I think many dioceses REQUIRE people to celebrate Reconciliation prior to “first communion” as a blanket policy. No mention of if the individual is conscious of any (grave) sin. Refer to this letter from the Vatican:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_19770331_penance-communion_en.html

All the dioceses I’ve lived in during the past 20 years have followed this policy, to the best of my knowledge.

Which policy?

The policy laid out in the document? (that First Reconciliation ought to precede First Holy Communion in children who have reached the age of discretion - and that both should occur in the same age-year?

Or that people are not being encouraged to seek out the Sacrament of Reconciliation before receiving First Holy Communion?

In the document, it notes that,

Moreover, St. Paul’s admonition (cf. I Cor. 11, 28) truly establishes a directing norm which regards even children. Therefore these also, before receiving the holy eucharist, should examine themselves. But often the child is not able to examine his conscience clearly and surely by himself. This will be done more easily and safely if he avails himself of the help of a priest confessor. In fact there are many children who feel troubled by small and unimportant things while there are others who ignore and pass over more serious faults.

Children are not the only ones who find themselves unable to make a good Examination of Conscience by themselves - anyone who is not experienced in doing so can easily, without the help of a good Father Confessor, fall into either the ditch of scrupulosity, or the ditch of rationalization - children are not the only ones who encounter these problems.

This is why it’s always a good idea to have everyone in the whole group go into the Confessional with the priest.

Some will make a Confession, and others will just have a conversation with the priest about where they are at - but no one outside the Confessional will know who is who - and many of those who go in intending merely to have a chat, will find that they do indeed have something to confess, and will celebrate the Sacrament of Reconciliation, anyway.

 

[diggerdomer]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You are citing a Vatican document saying that children must go to confession prior to their First Communion. What is your point? Do you think the Vatican decision was wrong? Or that what applies to children shouldn’t also apply to adults? Or that it should? Or what?

I’m getting the impression that you think Confirmation forgives sins the way Baptism does. It doesn’t.

I’ve never said or implied Confirmation forgives sins. Sorry for any misimpression you got.

I am questioning whether someone is REQUIRED to celebrate Reconciliation prior to first Communion, with no qualification or exception or particular judgment. Regardless of their actual state of sin, seriousness of sin, conscience, etc. My impression is that the answer is yes, though I am not sure I understand why that is a universal norm (if in fact it is). Seems to me that it would only make sense to REQUIRE Reconciliation prior to first Communion for cases of grave/mortal sin.