Confirmation question.

[Fox]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc." Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

 

[1ke]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc."

Why does it matter? It is what the Catholic Church requires.

Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

She is incorrect regarding what is required to become Methodist and Lutheran as well as Episcopalian or Orthodox.

The “non-denominational” and “evangelicals” may not have classes, but that would be because they are thin on theology and do not have a sacramental understanding.

Hoop jumping? No. Giving someone a solid understanding of the teachings of the Church so they (a) understand it and (b) can make a knowledgeable decicion is, IMHO, normal. Who would show up at a church and become a member without knowing what they even believe? Duh.

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

If she’s a fundamentalist you probably can’t. But suggest she call up the local Lutheran church and ask if she can just join up and get confirmed without classes.

 

[Trishie]

We prefer to understand the depth of meaning. It is in reverence for the greatness of this gift from God.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a2.htm

Even reading this page from the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding Confirmation, do you not obtain a clearer understanding of the Sacrament and the gift God is actually making to you? Can you not therefore live the Sacrament more fully in your life?

Why study anything in depth? Thank goodness that doctors and nurses go into their learning with detail and depth!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc." Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

I presume that you are saying that if say a Baptist wants to become a Catholic why can’t he just be confirmed rather than having to receive instruction.

The reason is to ensure that the person entering the Church fully understands what the Church believes. There are a lot of falsely held misconceptions about the Catholic Church and it helps to debunk these myths. It helps the person to discern the calling to the Church. A person may start the journey and decide that this isn’t for me and choose not to continue down the road home to the Catholic Church.

I don’t know if other Churches have similar requirements. I would anticipate that the Eastern Orthodox Church would have similar requirements.

 

[mark_a]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc." Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

Ask her if it would then be ok if you held onto your Marian beliefs after joining her Church.

No biblical references would even be necessary.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc." Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

I don’t know if such a situation is covered in Acts or addressed by St. Paul or the other Apostels in their Epistles. But this is where Church Tradition comes in. All Christians were instructed before being received. This has been the way it was done from the beginning. In the first centure and the few centuries that follow, Catechumens were instructed for three years before being baptized.

 

[RyanBlack]

I don’t know if such a situation is covered in Acts or addressed by St. Paul or the other Apostels in their Epistles. But this is where Church Tradition comes in. All Christians were instructed before being received. This has been the way it was done from the beginning. In the first centure and the few centuries that follow, Catechumens were instructed for three years before being baptized.

It certainly isn’t my intent to dispute the importance of properly instucting people in the faith, but I don’t think there is historical evidence justifying your claim about 3 years of instruction as far as the first century is concerned. Indeed, there is biblical evidence (think of the jailer at Philippi) that contradicts that.

 

[thomas_jd]

My sister in law posed this question to me

“What church other than the Catholic requires you to attend a class to be accepted by the church " Confirmation” etc." Hoop Jumping". Why cant you just go to church and say I’m catholic like in in any other Christian based church such as the baptist, lutheran, methodists etc?"

How can I give her a straight and to the point answer with biblical ref. She is a fundamentalist. Thanks.

There is only one Church! The rest are places to offer prayers to God.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It certainly isn’t my intent to dispute the importance of properly instucting people in the faith, but I don’t think there is historical evidence justifying your claim about 3 years of instruction as far as the first century is concerned. Indeed, there is biblical evidence (think of the jailer at Philippi) that contradicts that.

Not to say that its a solid rule back then but Catechumens were normally instructed for a period of time. Maybe 3 years is not accurate or a common rule but certainly Catechumens were not accepted in the Church through the Sacraments of Initiation soon after they expressed their desire. They would indeed go through instruction before Baptism.

 

[RyanBlack]

Not to say that its a solid rule back then but Catechumens were normally instructed for a period of time. Maybe 3 years is not accurate or a common rule but certainly Catechumens were not accepted in the Church through the Sacraments of Initiation soon after they expressed their desire. They would indeed go through instruction before Baptism.

My remarks were referring to the 1st century, about which there is relatively little we can say with certainty. In the early Church, a lengthy catechumenate (in some places as long as three years) did develop in response to very real concerns that catechumens might might lapse into heresy or apostasize (especially during the periods of persecution) without a lengthy period of preparation to prove their seriousness about the Christian faith. Once the Church gained legitimacy under Constantine, there would arise the added concern that some people were seeking conversion in response to social pressures. These concerns about heresy, apostacy, and social pressures are have relevance today (especially the former two); therefore the task of catechising those seeking to convert should be taken very seriously (though I would be opposed to requiring 3 years of instruction).

 

[ConstantineTG]

My remarks were referring to the 1st century, about which there is relatively little we can say with certainty. In the early Church, a lengthy catechumenate (in some places as long as three years) did develop in response to very real concerns that catechumens might might lapse into heresy or apostasize (especially during the periods of persecution) without a lengthy period of preparation to prove their seriousness about the Christian faith. Once the Church gained legitimacy under Constantine, there would arise the added concern that some people were seeking conversion in response to social pressures. These concerns about heresy, apostacy, and social pressures are have relevance today (especially the former two); therefore the task of catechising those seeking to convert should be taken very seriously (though I would be opposed to requiring 3 years of instruction).

From what I read, the lengthy time for Catechumens were far more regular in the first to fourth centuries because of persecution. Not only were baptisms not carried out regularly because of the situation, Catechumens were made to discern for a while their desire to join the Church knowing that it could result in martyrdom.

 

[Fox]

Thanks fellas!

 

[RyanBlack]

From what I read, the lengthy time for Catechumens were far more regular in the first to fourth centuries because of persecution. Not only were baptisms not carried out regularly because of the situation, Catechumens were made to discern for a while their desire to join the Church knowing that it could result in martyrdom.

During the periods of persecutions, the need for catechumens to be aware of the possibility of martyrdom is tied to the concern about the possibility of apostacy. Some chose to deny the faith rather than face martyrdom.

 

[ConstantineTG]

During the periods of persecutions, the need for catechumens to be aware of the possibility of martyrdom is tied to the concern about the possibility of apostacy. Some chose to deny the faith rather than face martyrdom.

Right, that is an offshoot of what I said. They either have to accept the fact that they could die, or if they are afraid to die then apostatize from the faith. Worse, they could even reveal where the Christians are in hiding.

Of course this time is also used for them to learn the faith as well, as they are instructed in it. As is today, not everyone has to go through RCIA, although that is the normal way to enter the Church as an adult.

 

[Bluegoat]

I’ve actually heard of a lot of fundamentalist churches where you have to sign something to become a member outlining the groups beliefs. So I’m surprised she thinks that.

But what I would say is this: from the perspective of the Catholic Church, once you become a member, you have a responsibility to be obedient to the Church and it’s teachings. Some of them are hard, and even obscure. People who join and then don’t try to live up to the teachings are culpable more than those who have never joined. Therefore you believe it is really important that adults know what they are agreeing to before they join.

I would also ask how they deal with people who disagree with the teachings in her church, or how do people know they want to be a member - it might open up some interesting discussion on the issue.

 

[joandarc2008]

Here is the reasoning broken down:

1. Certain Sacraments -for point of this discussion Sacraments of Initiation- leave an indellible mark on your soul
2. Once one has had these Sacraments they are Catholic - they have certain duties to follow the precepts of the Church - all five of them
3. Changing one’s mind does not negate the duty to the precepts therefore deciding one wants to go to the Baptist service instead of the Catholic service on Sunday puts the soul in a dangerous state.
4. Due to all of the above instruction is given so the candidate/catuchumen/cofirmant can make an informed/educated/prayerful decision before receiving the Sacraments of Initiation

Does that help?