Confirmation TEST?

[Dimmers]

Heh yesterday we had to take a test for on the subject of Confirmation. It was pretty easy. But I was worried about others in my class who looked as if they were having troubles. I myself was having troubles in the first 3 months of these classes since I don’t know SPANISH too well. One of the biggest problems was the handouts. They don’t seem to be all in tune with each other. That caused a lot of confusion in this test.

For instance in some of the handouts that spoke on the sacraments. The sacraments of Holy Communion were sometimes called Eucharist. Okay that isnt that bad. But remember this is all in Spanish and I can’t speak spanish or read it too well. Especially when it came to the Gifts and the Fruits of the Holy Spirit there was 4 handouts in total covering the Gifts and Fruits. Now, the problem was that some of these Gifts and fruits were worded differently in each of the handouts. I never put any thought into it until I took the test. There are others in that class like myself that recently just moved here to Puerto Rico and don’t comprehend spanish too well.

Oh well. I just feel they need to organize these classes better and get information that won’t confuse people (in spanish and english). I for one will be donating to them some printouts I made myself in Spanish with English translation so that if there are people like myself in the next group won’t have these problems.

 

[BlestOne]

At our parish the test is a very important part of the preparation for confirmation. We do it all in English, probably because we only have about 20 families in our parish that speak Spanish and we have a nun to interpret for them. I have seen kids fail the test and are given one more chance to pass to be accepted to receive confirmation. I know the year my son took the test, 6 kids failed and the teacher couldn’t believe that my son scored better than his daughter. His daughter is an “A” student and my son likes to do the minimum amount of work to get by so when he got an 88 and she got an 83 we were all surprized! Our bishop, God Bless him! mandates that they all be prepared for adulthood in their faith.

 

[frommi]

There should be no “test” given for confirmation. That’s a canonical violation if ever there was one.

You don’t need to show knowledge to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit…that’s a misguided view of the sacrament.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

frommi:

There should be no “test” given for confirmation. That’s a canonical violation if ever there was one.

You don’t need to show knowledge to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit…that’s a misguided view of the sacrament.

On the contrary, here’s what canon law says:

Can. 890 The faithful are bound to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially parish priests, are to see that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the opportune time.

If the pastor determines that a test is appropriate to validate the fact that the recipients are “proprly instructed” then he is certainly within his rights to do so.

Deacon Ed

 

[slewi]

Deacon Ed:

On the contrary, here’s what canon law says:If the pastor determines that a test is appropriate to validate the fact that the recipients are “proprly instructed” then he is certainly within his rights to do so.

Deacon Ed

Okay,

Honestly, after having just gone through improperly taught “RCIA”, I can say that a test is not what is needed. We need the priests and deacons to get off their butts and teach the classes! And teach proper doctrine. And teach people how to be catholics. Having some layperson with their own agenda spewing nonsense is not proper instruction.

And I don’t see where Canon 890 says there should be a test. Can someone point it out to me?

Stephen

 

[frommi]

Deacon Ed:

On the contrary, here’s what canon law says:If the pastor determines that a test is appropriate to validate the fact that the recipients are “proprly instructed” then he is certainly within his rights to do so.

Deacon Ed

No, he really isn’t.

It’s a misbegotten understanding of what the sacrament is. It sounds to me like Peoria is still treating it like a ‘graduation’ from cathecism class.

 

[Timidity]

slewi:

We need the priests and deacons to get off their butts and teach the classes!

Do you really think priests sit around all day except when they’re saying Mass?

 

[kage_ar]

Well, our teens have amazing instructors, led by a solid DRE and the world’s best Priest They have had “tests” all year long, over each area of study - for the past 2 years as we have a 2 year prep for Confirmation. The Confirmation students have also completed essay questions of a personal/spiritual nature, a researched report on their Patron Saint, have one-on-one interviews, 2 retreats coming up… These kids are being PREPARED.

 

[frommi]

kage_ar:

Well, our teens have amazing instructors, led by a solid DRE and the world’s best Priest They have had “tests” all year long, over each area of study - for the past 2 years as we have a 2 year prep for Confirmation. The Confirmation students have also completed essay questions of a personal/spiritual nature, a researched report on their Patron Saint, have one-on-one interviews, 2 retreats coming up… These kids are being PREPARED.

This presumes that knowledge on the part of the recipient is essential. And for some sacraments it certainly is: marriage and holy orders, for example. If we made confirmation into a “ritual of becoming an adult,” then knowledge of it would be central. But, like infant baptism, the church says that the life we receive from God is an absolutely free gift. We don’t earn it or buy it or become “good enough” to receive it.

 

[johnnykins]

frommi:

This presumes that knowledge on the part of the recipient is essential. And for some sacraments it certainly is: marriage and holy orders, for example. If we made confirmation into a “ritual of becoming an adult,” then knowledge of it would be central. But, like infant baptism, the church says that the life we receive from God is an absolutely free gift. We don’t earn it or buy it or become “good enough” to receive it.

You are generally right, but overplaying your hand, so to speak. In the eastern rites confirmation takes place with baptism - infant baptism. So knowledge is not “essential.” That being said the canon quoted above, by reason of the development of confirmation in the Latin rite, does provide for preparation - and the Bishop is actually required to inquire of the confirmands about the faith. So while not “essential” the family, community and parish priest is obligated to provide instruction and preparation. As a practical matter, I have no per se problem with tests - though I would think something less “academic” would be more appropriate.

 

[frommi]

johnnykins:

You are generally right, but overplaying your hand, so to speak. In the eastern rites confirmation takes place with baptism - infant baptism. So knowledge is not “essential.” That being said the canon quoted above, by reason of the development of confirmation in the Latin rite, does provide for preparation - and the Bishop is actually required to inquire of the confirmands about the faith. So while not “essential” the family, community and parish priest is obligated to provide instruction and preparation. As a practical matter, I have no per se problem with tests - though I would think something less “academic” would be more appropriate.

Paul VI made some significant changes in the confirmation rite…the ‘questions’ are really not part of the rite at all anymore.

A 7 year old who is baptized will be confirmed moments later…baptism is seen as a key to salvation, so if a parent said ‘baptize my child’ the priest would do so, then would be canonically bound to confirm them.

 

[AJV]

frommi:

This presumes that knowledge on the part of the recipient is essential. And for some sacraments it certainly is: marriage and holy orders, for example. If we made confirmation into a “ritual of becoming an adult,” then knowledge of it would be central. But, like infant baptism, the church says that the life we receive from God is an absolutely free gift. We don’t earn it or buy it or become “good enough” to receive it.

I don’t think taking a test for Confirmation qualfies as ‘working’ for a sacrament. Even for infant baptism parents are required to take classes to ensure that the child is brought up in the Christian faith, no?

The way I see it is as follows: the child has received an outpouring of the Spirit and so should live a proper Christian life. That is why the classes and tests are necessary, not for the validity of the sacrament.

For my Confirmation (in two weeks) we were required to learn the Catechism at the back of ‘textbook’ and the usual 15 prayers along with the 10 commandments, the spiritual and corporal works of mercy, etc. And we were quizzed on the textbook lessons as well.

 

[kage_ar]

To follow up on my earlier post, our Parish is making it clear this is NOT graduation. I’ve seen the text book for next years class (post-confirmation students) on the Prohpets and Apostles. I kinda wish I was not teaching another class, because I would LOVE to sit in on that one!

 

[BlestOne]

kage_ar:

Well, our teens have amazing instructors, led by a solid DRE and the world’s best Priest They have had “tests” all year long, over each area of study - for the past 2 years as we have a 2 year prep for Confirmation. The Confirmation students have also completed essay questions of a personal/spiritual nature, a researched report on their Patron Saint, have one-on-one interviews, 2 retreats coming up… These kids are being PREPARED.

Kage
Your program sounds alot like ours… but we do require 25 or 30 hours of community service too. I personally think my kids understand confirmation much better than I did, and for that I am thankful!
As for the test…it had some academic type questions but it also asked about things like what are the duties of an usher or a deacon. The essay part was my favorite part of confirmation prep…it gave me the opportunity to see what the kids picked up as important to their faith.
Afterall, Confirmation is the confirming in your decision to be a part of the Catholic Church. Don’t you think this requires knowing about what you are joining Frommi?

 

[m134e5]

What’s wrong with a test? Granted, accomodations should be made for those who simply are incapable of it (if they are mentally retarded, perhaps), but Catholics should know their faith. This is one way to help them learn it.

 

[frommi]

m134e5:

What’s wrong with a test? Granted, accomodations should be made for those who simply are incapable of it (if they are mentally retarded, perhaps), but Catholics should know their faith. This is one way to help them learn it.

Yes, we should know our faith.

And if one is giving out a ‘certificate of faith’, then this is fine.

It is not, however, an appropriate measure of readiness for the sacrament of confirmation

 

[Dimmers]

Yeah well, I didn’t mind the test at all. What did bother me was what was covered in the test, which became confusing due to the materials our class was handed. That caused a lot of confusion even amongst the spanish kids and adults taking the test. To top it off our teachers were laypersons who pray Rosaries for deceased people (get paid for it, too). On days where they had to pray a Rosary and it coincided with Confirmation class, another instructor would be sent. That instructor would not be notified what was covered by our class. Real big mess. Poorly organized if I must say. But thats going to change for the next group. Being that I am going to be here in Puerto Rico a bit longer than what I thought, I’m going to volunteer to assist the next group. My complaints have been heard and they will supposedly fix the problems.

 

[chicago]

AJV:

For my Confirmation (in two weeks) we were required to learn the Catechism at the back of ‘textbook’ and the usual 15 prayers along with the 10 commandments, the spiritual and corporal works of mercy, etc. And we were quizzed on the textbook lessons as well.

And after taking the test, most kids probably promptly forget most all of it. (Try quizzzing some of the parents and sponsors right before Confirmation Mass and see how well they do! lol)

 

[AJV]

chicago:

And after taking the test, most kids probably promptly forget most all of it. (Try quizzzing some of the parents and sponsors right before Confirmation Mass and see how well they do! lol)

That’s not a really fair thing to say. I don’t know about the majority of those to be confirmed as the clases here are HUGE but the ones I met are extremely sincere and eager to learn about the faith. My teacher (a religious sister) has taken pains to ensure that we are well grounded and understand everything throughly

 

[jbuck919]

I’m all for a written test if the course of instruction has pointed out to the kids that they are not to genuflect upon entering a pew when they attend a protestant wedding.