confirmation undo

[jstpeter]

Its not to spite my parents.

I just think that Catholic Church should know that members are leaving.

I was shocked at the sexual abuse scandals, and shocked when my priest told me how to vote to protect the sanctity of marriage. I am also disenchanted with the ability for believers to safeguard their faith even against all the evidence in the world.

Don’t get me wrong. People need the church. The universe is big and its nice to think the creator loves us. Eternity is a long time and its nice to think that we’ll be happily ever after in heaven. But there is no evidence for this, and this belief in the absence of evidence is not a decent way to establish moral laws. I suppose there are people that need to be told what to do what to believe and how to live their life, and given extrinsic motivation about how to live, and I’m thankful that these people are in the Catholic Church instead of Scientology. However, its not for me, and I was unable to make the decision until after Confirmation.

I don’t want to generalize about everyone in the Catholic Church, but I’ve seen enough sermons, studied enough Church history, and studied enough epistemology to think that there isn’t enough evidence to persuade a rationale person to devote their lives to the church.

The fact that people are saying that the Confirmation leaves an eternal mark on my soul and I can’t undo it, is a severely incredible claim.

 

[jmcrae]

Its not to spite my parents.

I just think that Catholic Church should know that members are leaving.

I was shocked at the sexual abuse scandals,

I was, too. Then I looked to see whether there is a law in the Canon Law that says, “Go forth and molest teenagers,” and it isn’t actually in there. Those guys were not following the Church when they did those things.

and shocked when my priest told me how to vote to protect the sanctity of marriage.

Do you ever wish that someone had told the Germans to vote against Hitler because of his Arianist philosophy? “Well, he’s a good manager and he’s in favour of law and order, so let’s just overlook the fact that he wants to kill everyone who is not Arian. After all, we are Arian, so we’re safe enough.”

When we overlook the basic philosophical principles that inform our politicians, we end up voting in some very dangerous people. Already, abortion has wiped out more people world-wide than were killed in all the wars of Europe throughout the 2,000 years of Christendom.

But people keep voting for pro-abortion politicians, because they seem to be good at other things, and since we are already born, it doesn’t affect us, so we keep on voting for them, and more and more children are killed every day.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Its not to spite my parents.

I just think that Catholic Church should know that members are leaving.

I was shocked at the sexual abuse scandals, and shocked when my priest told me how to vote to protect the sanctity of marriage. I am also disenchanted with the ability for believers to safeguard their faith even against all the evidence in the world.

Don’t get me wrong. People need the church. The universe is big and its nice to think the creator loves us. Eternity is a long time and its nice to think that we’ll be happily ever after in heaven. But there is no evidence for this, and this belief in the absence of evidence is not a decent way to establish moral laws. I suppose there are people that need to be told what to do what to believe and how to live their life, and given extrinsic motivation about how to live, and I’m thankful that these people are in the Catholic Church instead of Scientology. However, its not for me, and I was unable to make the decision until after Confirmation.

I don’t want to generalize about everyone in the Catholic Church, but I’ve seen enough sermons, studied enough Church history, and studied enough epistemology to think that there isn’t enough evidence to persuade a rationale person to devote their lives to the church.

The fact that people are saying that the Confirmation leaves an eternal mark on my soul and I can’t undo it, is a severely incredible claim.

The Catholic Church knows that there are fewer people in the pews, it is a sad thing. But
they may not know that you in particular are no longer attending mass or receiving the
eucharist. (The door is always open for you to return.) But, be assured, the Lord does
know.
Who wasn’t appalled at the scandal? But did you know that the problem was with fewer
than 3% of the priests? The problem of child abuse is actually greater in our schools,
sports and in protestant churches, they just are not “united” in one institution.
Please continue to do your study of the church, especially of the early church fathers.
I doubt you have had time to do that. We have 2000 plus years of history after all.

I will keep you in my prayers that you will discover the “pearl of great price” beneath the
layers of bad information, unholy witnesses, etc. Keep in touch.

 

[JButky]

Its not to spite my parents.

I was shocked at the sexual abuse scandals, and shocked when my priest told me how to vote to protect the sanctity of marriage. I am also disenchanted with the ability for believers to safeguard their faith even against all the evidence in the world.
.
.
.
I don’t want to generalize about everyone in the Catholic Church, but I’ve seen enough sermons, studied enough Church history, and studied enough epistemology to think that there isn’t enough evidence to persuade a rationale person to devote their lives to the church.

Evidence…Yes, that is the atheist’s/agnostic’s claim. Fortunately it is, at best, lacking in reason. May I suggest Aquinas, particularly the Summa con Gentiles. No Atheist has ever been able to successfully dispute the reasoning there. Not even closely. The actions of some Christians acting outside of the teachings of the Church is not the fault of the Church. It is the fault of the individual failing to respect those teachings.

The fact that people are saying that the Confirmation leaves an eternal mark on my soul and I can’t undo it, is a severely incredible claim.

Think of it this way. You took a swim in the lake. Later on you can’t go back and undo that you took a swim in the lake. It’s not like cancelling a credit card or closing an account with a bank.

But whatever caused you to stumble into irrational thought, we shall pray for your understanding.

Joe B

 

[CatholicFireman]

Leaving the church to “show them” is like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Your confirmation must have incredibly affected you somehow if you want to “undo” it so badly.

I suggest in stead of throwing your hands up and leaving, take a breather, spend time with Our Lord in Adoration, then undo…undo the legitimate injustices you see going on by being a good imitator of Christ in His Church and by defending her; not joining the “other side” so to speak.

Just a thought.

We need good people to stay and support, not give up and leave.

 

[Phemie]

While I think you are wrong in your thinking and know that you can’t undo either Baptism or Confirmation, if you truly want to separate yourself from the Church you can officially notify your bishop that you are leaving the Church. It will be noted in your baptismal records. Include your name, address, date of birth, name of parents, parish of baptism, etc. It won’t make you any less Catholic (you’re that by virtue of your baptism in the Church) or remove any obligation that you have as a Catholic (eg. marrying according to the laws of the Church) but it will formally recognize that you tried to throw God’s gifts back in His face.

I have only seen this happen once, from a German who didn’t want to pay Church tax, but I hear that it is not uncommon over there, where taxes are collected by the Gov’t on behalf of the Church(es). Some people formally renounce membership in any Church to avoid paying taxes.

 

[joanofarc2008]

While I think you are wrong in your thinking and know that you can’t undo either Baptism or Confirmation, if you truly want to separate yourself from the Church you can officially notify your bishop that you are leaving the Church. It will be noted in your baptismal records. Include your name, address, date of birth, name of parents, parish of baptism, etc. It won’t make you any less Catholic (you’re that by virtue of your baptism in the Church) or remove any obligation that you have as a Catholic (eg. marrying according to the laws of the Church) but it will formally recognize that you tried to throw God’s gifts back in His face.

I have only seen this happen once, from a German who didn’t want to pay Church tax, but I hear that it is not uncommon over there, where taxes are collected by the Gov’t on behalf of the Church(es). Some people formally renounce membership in any Church to avoid paying taxes.

Actually this option was closed.

 

[Phemie]

Actually this option was closed.

The option of formal resignation wasn’t closed, what changed is that formal resignation no longer releases you from the obligation to follow canon law when contracting a marriage.

 

[FullOfThought]

Is it possible to “undo” the sacrament of confirmation. Looking back, I realize I may have been naïve or influenced by my parents to truly make a decision for myself. Now, I am confident I will never stray back to the church. I’d feel better if I was no longer associated with the church. I know this might be an odd request, but it is sincere. Marriages can be annulled; can confirmations?

We had a lady in our RCIA class who felt this way too, so she sat in on all of our classes and helped our confirmations at the Easter Vigil… she says this opened her eyes to the gift that she had already been given!

Perhaps this is something you would be interested in?

 

[Orogeny]

The fact that people are saying that the Confirmation leaves an eternal mark on my soul and I can’t undo it, is a severely incredible claim.

More incredible than the fact that you have a soul in the first place?

Peace

Tim

 

[joanofarc2008]

The option of formal resignation wasn’t closed, what changed is that formal resignation no longer releases you from the obligation to follow canon law when contracting a marriage.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[dconklin]

I just think that Catholic Church should know that members are leaving.

I can say that our parish gains about 20 times as many people as it looses. Not people moving here or moving away, but people joining the Church for the first time versus ‘officially’ denouncing the Church.

I was shocked at the sexual abuse scandals, and shocked when my priest told me how to vote to protect the sanctity of marriage. I am also disenchanted with the ability for believers to safeguard their faith even against all the evidence in the world.

As bad and wide-spread as the priest abuse crimes are. I see far more news stories about female teachers sexually ‘preying’ upon their students. People are not leaving the school systems over this.

 

[Michael1978]

Lord Jesus Christ, most merciful Savior of the world, we humbly beseech You, by Your most Sacred Heart, that all the sheep who stray out of Your fold may one day be converted to You, the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls, who lives and reigns with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit, world without end.
Amen.

 

[jstpeter]

More incredible than the fact that you have a soul in the first place?

That’s not a fact…also unbelievable.

There are things that separate man from beasts, but what evidence do we have for an eternal soul?

 

[jstpeter]

I was, too. Then I looked to see whether there is a law in the Canon Law that says, “Go forth and molest teenagers,” and it isn’t actually in there. Those guys were not following the Church when they did those things.

Do you ever wish that someone had told the Germans to vote against Hitler because of his Arianist philosophy? “Well, he’s a good manager and he’s in favour of law and order, so let’s just overlook the fact that he wants to kill everyone who is not Arian. After all, we are Arian, so we’re safe enough.”
jmcrae;8583823:

1. The insitution of the Church did a pretty good job of hiding its members from any sort of accountability. It was not just the offenses of a small percentages of priests, but the coverup of many people, including the current pope, of sexual abuses is disgusting.
2. Hitler wasn’t voted into power. Also, I can’t believe you actually equate voting for restricting the rights of gay couples and voting against Hitler.

I suppose I should’ve expected this.

 

[jstpeter]

Leaving the Church is not rejecting God…

Leaving the Church is rejecting the Church which is what I wanted to formally do.

However, it seems like the process is either non-existent, or irrelevant.

It appears that confirmation wasn’t my choice, it was God choosing me and it didn’t matter if I was I a consenting adult or making an informed decision. The mark on my soul is permanent, like my DNA, and I cannot change it.

I think my questions are answered and talking with followers of the Church have confirmed my thinking more than ever.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

jmcrae;8583823:

I was, too. Then I looked to see whether there is a law in the Canon Law that says, “Go forth and molest teenagers,” and it isn’t actually in there. Those guys were not following the Church when they did those things.

Do you ever wish that someone had told the Germans to vote against Hitler because of his Arianist philosophy? “Well, he’s a good manager and he’s in favour of law and order, so let’s just overlook the fact that he wants to kill everyone who is not Arian. After all, we are Arian, so we’re safe enough.”
jmcrae;8583823:

1. The insitution of the Church did a pretty good job of hiding its members from any sort of accountability. It was not just the offenses of a small percentages of priests, but the coverup of many people, including the current pope, of sexual abuses is disgusting.
2. Hitler wasn’t voted into power. Also, I can’t believe you actually equate voting for restricting the rights of gay couples and voting against Hitler.

I suppose I should’ve expected this.

Hold on there, when these offenses occurred and were reported, most of the priests
involved received counselling, or said that they had repented, etc. That was the
way it was done back then. (I know because my brother is a phychiarist and they
believed at that time that it was something that could be corrected.) And you will have
to be specific about the “coverup” by the pope. I have heard of allegations that were
dismissed, but no creditable charges. Sources, please.

 

[CatholicFireman]

I think my questions are answered and talking with followers of the Church have confirmed my thinking more than ever.

Only because this is what you wanted in the first place (I suspect). You didn’t want to be convinced otherwise. Your mind was made up from the start.

Someday the Holy Spirit which you are trying to reject will convince you otherwise. I pray it’s sooner than later.

 

[jstpeter]

jstpeter;8587484:

jmcrae;8583823:

Hold on there, when these offenses occurred and were reported, most of the priests
involved received counselling, or said that they had repented, etc. That was the
way it was done back then. (I know because my brother is a phychiarist and they
believed at that time that it was something that could be corrected.) And you will have
to be specific about the “coverup” by the pope. I have heard of allegations that were
dismissed, but no creditable charges. Sources, please.

Sources:

Pope: boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2010/03/26/german_abuse_scandal_draws_closer_to_pope/

Boston’s Law is now living in the Vatican, his transfer was approved by Pope John Paul.

Also, this story on NPR is evidence that unrelenting obedience to an institution is uncalled for. They make mistakes, and we need to analyse their ultimate purpose.
thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/242/Enemy-Camp?act=1
The priest was involved in quieting the sexual abuse issues until 1998.

And I want to reaffirm, to some folks that are critical, I am not, rejecting God. I reject that the Catholic Church is the best way learn about what God wants. I am not rejecting the Holy Spirit…I reject that the Church is related in any way to the wills and desires of the Holy Spirit.

 

[zz912]

1. The insitution of the Church did a pretty good job of hiding its members from any sort of accountability. It was not just the offenses of a small percentages of priests, but the coverup of many people, including the current pope, of sexual abuses is disgusting.
2. Hitler wasn’t voted into power. Also, I can’t believe you actually equate voting for restricting the rights of gay couples and voting against Hitler.

I suppose I should’ve expected this.

You need a better education in history and current events. You are woefully ignorant.

1. Pope Benedict is the one most responsible for cleaning out the abuse.
2. Hitler was voted into power.