Confirmation - What Exactly Does it Mean??

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Perhaps you could understand the different perspective on this if I asked you to read about Islam, the miracles of Islam, its history, and pray to Allah to understand his existence, then be open to his answer. There’s probably no way you’d do this. And just the same there’s no way I would pray to something I do not believe in.
I would have to say that you’d have a much better chance at asking me to pray to the God of Islam than to deny His existence. Moving around different beliefs about God is in a different realm than denying His very existence. But, I know what your analogy was getting at and I respect your freedom of choice.

It does interest me how those who claim to deny the existence of God can still hang on to “Quick Questions” about the faith. That is what I interpret as hope and I hope that your answer concerning Confirmation is given in a way that the very Spirit that is received is also at work.

You mentioned that Catholics are tolerant of others beliefs. Tolerance, by its very definition, means to put up with what one does not believe himself. Jesus was very tolerant of those who opposed Him but He never undermined the truth. Thank you for coming here and I pray that you will see that spark that you keep trying to extinguish.

I’ll wish you a Merry Christmas even though for atheists there is no basis for such a celebration… In my prayers and love… teachccd
 
Dear QuickQuestion:
Well you certainly have had the proper environment in which to learn and understand the Catholic Faith, and perhaps at some time in the future an experience in life may bring you back, but if your conscience is unable to grasp or believe, then let it be your guide. I will keep you in my prayers.
And as a sidebar, I am studying the Mulsim Faith. As you recoginize, it is important to know what all peoples believe because we are all in this world together until we all stand before Jesus.
Explain to me what this “proper enviornment” really was. The guy has parents that insist on him to commit a sin to look good.

With all due respect, you are a catholic and should admonish this man to go to a priest.

He can study Islam all he wants to, and even “revert” to it, but right now he has family he lives with that loves him, and he loves them. Think beyond your position, and think of his.
 
OP is spot on with their comments, it goes further into regular school as well. Think of both of them as supplements, not all inclusive, and if you are doing your job as a parent right, they will be a side note along your childs understanding and education. I was raised in a family that absolutely never, not even once, discussed anything Catholic outside of the total and absolute basics of Christianity. It was the mother church itself, the Holy Spirit, and his presence through others I know and knew that helped me dramatically through my understanding of what it means to be a Catholic. Yet, understand this, ask this same question to the average protestant and they will be less so in the same boat on the simple level of faith, less so along the full understanding of their denomination.
 
I would have to say that you’d have a much better chance at asking me to pray to the God of Islam than to deny His existence. Moving around different beliefs about God is in a different realm than denying His very existence. But, I know what your analogy was getting at and I respect your freedom of choice.

It does interest me how those who claim to deny the existence of God can still hang on to “Quick Questions” about the faith. That is what I interpret as hope and I hope that your answer concerning Confirmation is given in a way that the very Spirit that is received is also at work.
I would just like to make a quick clarification to all reading this about atheism. Atheism is not to deny the existence of god. By denying the existence of something, you must first admit that it exists. For example, I see a computer screen in front of me. I know it exists (let’s not get into any very serious philosophical debates about how we attain knowledge, please). By denying the existence of the screen, I have to admit it does exist. Therefore it would be completely ridiculous of me to deny the existence of something.
Atheism, by definition means, “without god”. Atheists simply believe there is no god. We are only atheists on one further level than you are, if you are Catholic. You do not believe in Thor, Zeus, or Poseidon. Therefore, you are an atheist in regard to hundreds of thousands of deities. Atheists go one step further by saying they believe in zero gods. They are not denying any existence. We simply make a statement that we do not believe in any god, gods, goddesses, or supernatural beings of the like.
Yes, it is true there are some very radical atheists that will claim that they need to disprove god, or even say that they have done so. The majority of atheists do not believe that god can be proved or disproved.
So again, I am not denying the existence of god, and the reason I have a quick question about confirmation is because Catholicism is such a big part of my family’s life, I thought it best to ask other Catholics their opinion on the matter. I am not trying to search for faith, and I’m sorry if that is disheartening to you.
I hope you all are having a wonderful Christmas day.
 
You made note of this point but completely scooted by the fact that you feel bad about taking communion. Why is it an issue with you? If you don’t believe in God, it should not bother you to go eat a piece of bread in a ceremony that means nothing to you. I, along with many in this forum, do believe that that bread is the true presence of Christ with us each and every time we go to mass.
Actually the reason this is an issue with me is not simply out of love for my mother, but out of respect for the faith of others. I know that Catholics revere communion as Jesus - your god. A very important figure in your life. I also know that if I do not believe this as well, the Church teaches I should not take communion. I think I should respect that. There is no special difference between this and me going into a Buddhist temple and keeping silence during meditation. While I believe it is just a piece of bread, you have your beliefs and I should keep that in mind and respect that.
Is it the respect and love for Mother? More likely, right? This later reason is why I believe there is still God in you (I will explain this more below). You feel that natural law and it makes you uncomfortable when you receive communion while you are not in communion with Him.
Again, mistaken. I do not feel uncomfortable taking communion, but I think if the Church does not wish for me to take communion, I should not do so.
This country was founded by individuals who believed in Jesus Christ. It was a law then to teach children about God and Jesus. Education took second place in the survival of those times.
Here I am not quite sure if you are referring to the original English colonies or the United States. Perhaps in certain English colonies, it was law that people were to be educated in faith, and most likely education did not take second place, but fifth, or sixth, or not at all. Education was for the wealthy, and few had this opportunity.
In the United States, however, there was NEVER been a law to teach people about Jesus. Perhaps about god (since atheism barred many from participating in government and/or even holding a job, but even that is a bit of a stretch), and maybe in some more conservative areas, it was quite blasphemous and would be social suicide not to be Christian.
There is also a common misconception that America was founded by Christians. Don’t know how this one came about. :confused:
Anyways if you read some history, you’ll find that the majority of the men who founded the United States were Deists. They did not believe in Jesus. In fact, Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration, rewrote the gospels, removing any supernatural aspects (i.e. claims to divinity, miracles). He went even further than this and took out anything he believed to be a misinterpretation. The book is called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, in case you wanted to look it up or read it.
Good deeds don’t always have good outcomes, and bad deeds sometimes are not brought to justice.
As for the good sows good and evil sows evil, I will not argue that. It is a religious and philosophical viewpoint that all do not share, and that is quite all right. I was pointing out something I try to live by. 👍
Your individual decision to turn away from God may not be “seriously detrimental to society,” but it is a problem when people see themselves as individuals. “What can I do, I am just one person?” You are part of a group, and groups of people have much more power with responsibility, and as more and more turn away from God, the fabric unravels more. I was part of that group, but now I praise the Lord for my salvation, and I try to give it back to others as I have had it done to me.
I don’t see myself as “turning away from god”. I see myself as breaking away the chains of god and religion. I see atheism as a liberating part of my life. Not because I can do what I want without fear of hell, or because I don’t (well, someday won’t) have to go to church on Sundays, or because I don’t pray; because I realize I have even more responsibility to do good to my fellow man. If all we have is now, I’m certainly not going to waste my time on this earth. I’m going to do all I can to make it a better place, not just for myself or my family, but for everyone else.
I agree, as a group of people grows so does their responsibility. Like when Republicans were voted to office in 2000 and 2004, they had a great duty and responsibility to their country and their people. Like the Democrats in office today, they too have the same huge responsibility, if not a bigger one considering the worsening state of the world and our country.
Atheists are aware of their growing weight and influence on society. While it can be difficult to be an outspoken atheist due to the amount of negative connotation the word and person has been given by religions, we continue to raise awareness and do good in society. Such organizations as the American Humanist Association are doing good in our world.
Atheism, or “turning away from god” as you see it, is not a bad thing.
 
To christianlove -
The original post I had was too long; here’s the rest:
LOVE: And then it we come to the greatest of the theological values and virtues, not unique to the Godly or godless: Love (1 Cor 13:13). It is with tender love that I have seen other tell you how they will pray for you, how they want to give you advice as to how to get around receiving communion and not hurting your family, how they care for you, a brother in Christ though not a believer. That is enough for us, to know that God is love and in some way we want to be part of that. How you call your God (or not) may not be relevant from His standpoint, but God is Love. If you live in love (for your mother as an example) then God lives in you. Your respect for your mother and her beliefs stems from love, it is the basis of natural law, written on our hearts by God himself. The beautiful thing is that you don’t have to see Him now, or later, but one day before it is too late; I hope you do see him again.
While I disagree with much of what you say, where you believe love comes from, and your views of natural law, I just had to say that was quite beautiful. I have nothing more to say on that matter.
I hope you’re having a great Christmas. 🙂
 
I would just like to make a quick clarification to all reading this about atheism. Atheism is not to deny the existence of god. By denying the existence of something, you must first admit that it exists. For example, I see a computer screen in front of me. I know it exists (let’s not get into any very serious philosophical debates about how we attain knowledge, please). By denying the existence of the screen, I have to admit it does exist. Therefore it would be completely ridiculous of me to deny the existence of something.
Atheism, by definition means, “without god”. Atheists simply believe there is no god. We are only atheists on one further level than you are, if you are Catholic. You do not believe in Thor, Zeus, or Poseidon. Therefore, you are an atheist in regard to hundreds of thousands of deities. Atheists go one step further by saying they believe in zero gods. They are not denying any existence. We simply make a statement that we do not believe in any god, gods, goddesses, or supernatural beings of the like.
Yes, it is true there are some very radical atheists that will claim that they need to disprove god, or even say that they have done so. The majority of atheists do not believe that god can be proved or disproved.
So again, I am not denying the existence of god, and the reason I have a quick question about confirmation is because Catholicism is such a big part of my family’s life, I thought it best to ask other Catholics their opinion on the matter. I am not trying to search for faith, and I’m sorry if that is disheartening to you.
I hope you all are having a wonderful Christmas day.
I am having a wonderful Christmas day, thank you. Your post is all about semantics and if that is what pleases you then so be it. What is disheartening is your willingness to come to a Catholic forum and flaunt your disbelief in God and your seemingly casual attempt to get information on Confirmation that you could easily get from non- interactive sources. You are either reaching out or you are doing exactly what you intended by “casually” sharing your drastic decision to leave your faith. I thought that you mentioned that you were Catholic once and then left. If you think that this forum is a game then you win… for now…teachccd :confused:
 
Actually the reason this is an issue with me is not simply out of love for my mother, but out of respect for the faith of others. I know that Catholics revere communion as Jesus - your god. A very important figure in your life. I also know that if I do not believe this as well, the Church teaches I should not take communion. I think I should respect that. There is no special difference between this and me going into a Buddhist temple and keeping silence during meditation. While I believe it is just a piece of bread, you have your beliefs and I should keep that in mind and respect that.
I would not be as “kind” to disregard God for your unbelief so you are one up on me with your going to Mass and observing our practices.
Again, mistaken. I do not feel uncomfortable taking communion, but I think if the Church does not wish for me to take communion, I should not do so.
It is nice of you to be so considerate toward a group of folks who can entertain you for an hour… Again, I doubt that I would attend an atheist meeting just to appease realatives. You are up on me once again…
Here I am not quite sure if you are referring to the original English colonies or the United States. Perhaps in certain English colonies, it was law that people were to be educated in faith, and most likely education did not take second place, but fifth, or sixth, or not at all. Education was for the wealthy, and few had this opportunity.
In the United States, however, there was NEVER been a law to teach people about Jesus. Perhaps about god (since atheism barred many from participating in government and/or even holding a job, but even that is a bit of a stretch), and maybe in some more conservative areas, it was quite blasphemous and would be social suicide not to be Christian.
There is also a common misconception that America was founded by Christians. Don’t know how this one came about. :confused:
Anyways if you read some history, you’ll find that the majority of the men who founded the United States were Deists. They did not believe in Jesus. In fact, Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration, rewrote the gospels, removing any supernatural aspects (i.e. claims to divinity, miracles). He went even further than this and took out anything he believed to be a misinterpretation. The book is called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, in case you wanted to look it up or read it.
It’s funny how are laws and the ten commandments parallel so nicely. But then that is what you would expect from Deists. So Thomas Jefferson is the fifth author the the gospels? Great, now I have to add another Bible translation to my collection. When will it end??
I don’t see myself as “turning away from god”. I see myself as breaking away the chains of god and religion. I see atheism as a liberating part of my life…
…Atheism, or “turning away from god” as you see it, is not a bad thing.
Without an objective moral truth, a bad thing is only relative to an individuals belief. It may not be a bad thing to you but you could never prove that it is not a bad thing for me. You have no authority to base your moral decisions. It is purely subjective and each person can have their own view on what constitutes bad and what constitutes good. With God there is an objective moral truth and all things can find their basis in Him regarding absolute truth as opposed to relativism.

So your statement that atheism is not bad refutes itself since it becomes relative to your individual assessment and does not take into account the millions of other opinions out there… teachccd
 
I am having a wonderful Christmas day, thank you. Your post is all about semantics and if that is what pleases you then so be it. What is disheartening is your willingness to come to a Catholic forum and flaunt your disbelief in God and your seemingly casual attempt to get information on Confirmation that you could easily get from non- interactive sources. You are either reaching out or you are doing exactly what you intended by “casually” sharing your drastic decision to leave your faith. I thought that you mentioned that you were Catholic once and then left. If you think that this forum is a game then you win… for now…teachccd :confused:
While the post may be mainly about semantics, semantics in this area is a very important thing. It is a HUGE difference to deny the existence of god, rather than not to believe in god.
I am sorry if my explanations appeared in that manner to you, but that was not my intent. I simply wanted an answer to my question about Catholic teaching and I still feel that I have not gotten it, but in the mean time there were certain clarifications I felt that needed to be made, and certain comments that side tracked the original intent of the conversation. Forgive me, but wouldn’t you feel you needed to clear up something about Catholicism if I made some comment that was blatantly misunderstanding your beliefs?
This forum is not a game to me. I am simply asking a question and trying to receive an answer. No offense meant by this statement, but if I wanted to play a game with theists I would go to a Mormon forum, not a Catholic one.
 
It’s funny how are laws and the ten commandments parallel so nicely. But then that is what you would expect from Deists.
I have to disagree with this. The ten commandments do not parallel with U.S. law. The only commandments that are actual laws are:
Do not kill.
Do not steal.
(And I suppose one could make an argument that Do not bear false witness against your neighbor could cover perjury…)
Perjury besides, most civilizations have figured out without the ten commandments that killing each other and taking what isn’t ours is not a plus for society…
So your statement that atheism is not bad refutes itself since it becomes relative to your individual assessment and does not take into account the millions of other opinions out there… teachccd
And by this argument, you own statement that “with god there is an objective moral truth and all things can find their basis in him regarding absolute truth as opposed to relativism” refutes itself as well. I know you believe these things about god, but since others do not believe this, then you are not taking in account others beliefs. Because when it boils down to it, it is only a belief, not a solid fact…No offense meant towards you or any other believers out there.
 
And by this argument, you own statement that “with god there is an objective moral truth and all things can find their basis in him regarding absolute truth as opposed to relativism” refutes itself as well. I know you believe these things about god, but since others do not believe this, then you are not taking in account others beliefs. Because when it boils down to it, it is only a belief, not a solid fact…No offense meant towards you or any other believers out there.
Objective truth is truth irregardless of anyone’s beliefs. As you needed to clarify your distinction between the denial of an existence in God and an unbelief in God, I need to underline the definition of objective truth. You have to choose between God (objective truth whereby all choices are discerned and either contrast or mirror) or relativism (whereby every choice is a matter of opinion). Gravity exists whether one believes in gravity or not. That is objective truth thats only proof is the effect and not the substance itself. Although one cannot “prove” exactly what gravity is we know its effect is to pull smaller objects towards larger ones.

I cannot and never will be offended by a person who does not believe in God since that person has no basis for his or her non-belief. To say that God is not a solid fact is like saying that love does not exist since you can not empirically prove exactly one love is. Again it is the effects of love that “prove” its existence. And there are many abandoned people in this world who would disagree that love does exist. Love has no substance to view under a microscope and yet you say that you can be an atheist and love as much as a believer. I say that that is true, but what exactly do you mean? Isn’t love just a belief that another’s kindness constitutes a bond with that person? Is it really? Prove it…

Some might say that I am derailing this thread and if they are then so be it. I cannot imagine a more pertinent response to any poster than to uphold the very Essence that created them…
 
Objective truth is truth irregardless of anyone’s beliefs. As you needed to clarify your distinction between the denial of an existence in God and an unbelief in God, I need to underline the definition of objective truth. You have to choose between God (objective truth whereby all choices are discerned and either contrast or mirror) or relativism (whereby every choice is a matter of opinion). Gravity exists whether one believes in gravity or not. That is objective truth thats only proof is the effect and not the substance itself. Although one cannot “prove” exactly what gravity is we know its effect is to pull smaller objects towards larger ones.

I cannot and never will be offended by a person who does not believe in God since that person has no basis for his or her non-belief. To say that God is not a solid fact is like saying that love does not exist since you can not empirically prove exactly one love is. Again it is the effects of love that “prove” its existence. And there are many abandoned people in this world who would disagree that love does exist. Love has no substance to view under a microscope and yet you say that you can be an atheist and love as much as a believer. I say that that is true, but what exactly do you mean? Isn’t love just a belief that another’s kindness constitutes a bond with that person? Is it really? Prove it…
You cannot claim that your god is objective truth. This is entirely based upon belief. While you believe it to be fact, it is not. And I am not claiming that it is a fact that there is no god. No one knows.

An objective truth is one that is entirely independent of human thoughts and feelings. One that remains true anywhere and everywhere in the universe. No matter where you go, 2 plus 2 will always equal four. You cannot prove to me that your god is not simply the imagination of desert wanderers that has lived on to this day. What makes your case for your god being the single objective truth in the universe, rather than the god of the Muslims, or the god of the Ancient Egyptians, so much more adequate? Absolutely nothing. Since you cannot prove that a god exists, let alone said god being the Christian god, your god remains a matter of subjective truth.

I have heard this argument that love is objective. It is not. Do I believe love is entirely universal? I cannot make that call. I am not an omniscient being. 🙂 But by definition, an objective truth must be independent of human thoughts and feelings. Since love is a feeling, it cannot go in this category and ergo I must decide until further proof is brought forth that love is a subjective truth.

In addition, I understand that relativism has many negative connotations within the Catholic Church. But it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. For example, I would completely and entirely agree with you that killing another human being is wrong. But, given a certain situation (by definition, something subjective), such as having to kill someone in order to save your family, killing another human being in this situation, I would say, is entirely all right. And I know for a fact that the Church teaches that murder in self defense is acceptable. Is this not relativism? It most certainly is.
 
Let me see, there is only one truth, no matter what you call it, there is only one. By definition, truth is singular. Can not be subjective to feeling. It is what it is, now that is starting to sound secular.

God is Love (1 John 4:16). No matter what you call him, that feeling inside of you, love, is God in you. So God is truth. The philosophical wheel can go round and round.

I pray for you quick, I hope you embrace God’s arms around you. They are there, I hope you feel them one day. When you need him the most, he will be there. He will never forsake you. The one true God. The world may call him “I AM THAT I AM,” Christ, Jesus, Allah, Buddah, but this is all one God…and what I believe is that his son was Jesus. I am happy that my savior came to show me who I am. That God made humanity sacred. I feel that love.

I hope you find love…In my prayers is a special place for you and all atheist like I once was. I know what it is like, but I only knew when I found out the truth!

Peace,

Christian Love

Christian Love
 
Let me see, there is only one truth, no matter what you call it, there is only one. By definition, truth is singular. Can not be subjective to feeling. It is what it is, now that is starting to sound secular.

God is Love (1 John 4:16). No matter what you call him, that feeling inside of you, love, is God in you. So God is truth. The philosophical wheel can go round and round.
Indeed the wheel can go round and round. But now we are entering the realm of a debate between absolute and relative truth. That is a BIG discussion. If you want to get into it we most certainly can, but we are not going to solve it. It’s a debate that has been ongoing since the Greek philosophers (one between Socrates and Aristotle I think).

The Bible, however, is not proof. By quoting scripture, you do not prove any point. It is a religious text. Therefore, your argument contains a logical fallacy.
I pray for you quick, I hope you embrace God’s arms around you. They are there, I hope you feel them one day. When you need him the most, he will be there. He will never forsake you. The one true God. The world may call him “I AM THAT I AM,” Christ, Jesus, Allah, Buddah, but this is all one God…and what I believe is that his son was Jesus. I am happy that my savior came to show me who I am. That God made humanity sacred. I feel that love.
So, according to the you, it does not matter which deity I choose to believe in because they are all the same? Even though the Bible constantly makes mention that those do not believe in Jesus as their savior are doomed to an eternity in hell? This is certainly quite a relief; I can continue my worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in peace, without worry of doom and destruction…

And another side note: Buddhists do not consider Buddha a god. The Buddha refers to an enlightened person, and in this case, “Buddha” (a more proper name is Gautama Buddha) refers to the first enlightened one, Siddhartha Gautama, who founded Buddhism.
Many sects of Buddhism actually make no claim as to whether there is a god or not, because they know that no one can simply claim it is so…
 
quickquestion, your OP seems highly disingenuous at this point.

You can gain an in-depth understanding of Confirmation from the CCC:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt1art2.shtml

But somehow I think you already knew that. :rolleyes:
I am sorry that it has gotten so off topic…
However, I am not simply here to mess with people and argue their beliefs. I would welcome more answers to the original question. I have already read what the CCC has to say, but that neither helps me nor interests me very much.
 
Perhaps you should restate your question.

In the OP you seemed to be asking 2 things:
  1. I was wondering, what exactly does Confirmation entail?
    I think you have received the answer to this question in previous posts. It is also answered quite fully in the CCC.
  2. is it not my choice of whether or not I wish to continue to be a part of the Church or if I have to attend mass?
    Are you over 18? Are you asking if someone that was Confirmed can later leave the Church? Are you asking permission from strangers on a forum to disobey your mother? What exactly are you asking?
And just as a side note, as a Catholic parent I find it extremely disturbing that an atheist is helping teach CCD classes.
 
I would just like to make a quick clarification to all reading this about atheism. Atheism is not to deny the existence of god. By denying the existence of something, you must first admit that it exists. For example, I see a computer screen in front of me. I know it exists (let’s not get into any very serious philosophical debates about how we attain knowledge, please). By denying the existence of the screen, I have to admit it does exist. Therefore it would be completely ridiculous of me to deny the existence of something.
Atheism, by definition means, “without god”. Atheists simply believe there is no god. We are only atheists on one further level than you are, if you are Catholic. You do not believe in Thor, Zeus, or Poseidon. Therefore, you are an atheist in regard to hundreds of thousands of deities. Atheists go one step further by saying they believe in zero gods. They are not denying any existence. We simply make a statement that we do not believe in any god, gods, goddesses, or supernatural beings of the like.
Yes, it is true there are some very radical atheists that will claim that they need to disprove god, or even say that they have done so. The majority of atheists do not believe that god can be proved or disproved.
So again, I am not denying the existence of god, and the reason I have a quick question about confirmation is because Catholicism is such a big part of my family’s life, I thought it best to ask other Catholics their opinion on the matter. I am not trying to search for faith, and I’m sorry if that is disheartening to you.
I hope you all are having a wonderful Christmas day.
I found this “talk” to be extremely helpful in understanding the Atheists position…it really gives one a lot to think about!

biblechristiansociety.com/download and click on “Was Hitler Right?”.

CC
 
Perhaps you should restate your question.

In the OP you seemed to be asking 2 things:
  1. I was wondering, what exactly does Confirmation entail?
    I think you have received the answer to this question in previous posts. It is also answered quite fully in the CCC.
  2. is it not my choice of whether or not I wish to continue to be a part of the Church or if I have to attend mass?
    Are you over 18? Are you asking if someone that was Confirmed can later leave the Church? Are you asking permission from strangers on a forum to disobey your mother? What exactly are you asking?
And just as a side note, as a Catholic parent I find it extremely disturbing that an atheist is helping teach CCD classes.
My main question at this point is, since I am confirmed, do I have a choice in whether I attend mass or not? I am under eighteen. I am not asking permission to disobey my mother. I am asking what the Church’s view is. Does the Church say that I need to continue to attend mass to please my parents even thought I do not share their beliefs? Or does the Church say that I am old enough to decide for myself?

And although your concern that I teach a CCD class is not dismissible, trust me when I say that I know what I’m teaching when it comes to CCD, and I would never, ever, in a million years teach children that are not my own anything but what their parents intended them to learn when they go into a CCD class. I teach them what they are supposed to learn. Please do not fear for any Catholic children. They do not know my beliefs and I am not going to share my beliefs with them.
 
I found this “talk” to be extremely helpful in understanding the Atheists position…it really gives one a lot to think about!

biblechristiansociety.com/download and click on “Was Hitler Right?”.

CC
I’m glad you found it helpful.
I’m listening to “Was Hitler Right”. Quite interesting but the whole thing is filled with fallacies. For example, I’m listening to the segment on the Declaration of Independence. The whole argument up to this point is that atheists are not endowed by their creator (since they have no creator) with certain unalienable rights so they are not citizens. However, the Declaration created absolutely zero government. That was the Constitution.

The whole argument is pretty ridiculous to me. The speaker is claiming the entire time that atheists have no objective moral value because they have no god. But who is claiming to have the objective moral? The speaker. What makes him right and the atheist wrong? He has a plethora of quotes from the book that makes this claim in the first place.

Compare this to me writing a book that claims there is no god and that there is only subjective truth. I make this point to you and you say “Prove it.” I reference the book that I wrote to make my case. This is ridiculous of course. And yes I realize you believe the Bible was written by god (or inspired by him, or however you wish to put it), but since the ones who claim this are the ones who use said book to back their assertion up, this is just as ridiculous to me.

I’ll have to finish listening later. Quite interesting though that this man doesn’t see any problem with his argument.
 
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