Confirmation

[Sarahforgiven]

I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant, but attended episcopal schools & was confirmed & married in the episcopal church.
My question relates to the 3 sacraments that cannot be repeated: baptism, confirmation, & holy orders. Now I am a candidate for reception into the Church. Are we repeating confirmation, because the apostolic succession is not recognized unless it is from the Catholic church proper?
I am thrilled to be finishing RCIA, and long for the Easter Vigil to be received, but was just concerned about being " confirmed" twice.
Also, I have made my first confession, but we wait for first communion until the Easter Vigil. I have heard more than one scholar say that a baptized Catholic who has made a first confession & received Instruction, should not be held back from the Eucharist?
I am not upset about these things, just curious?
As the world turns further away from the truth, I am sure there will be more candidates with similar backgrounds.

 

[Maureen1125]

You need to ask your RCIA director these questions.

I do know that not everyone in RCIA is there for the same reasons. Meaning…sacraments. There are some people that are 100% converts, some are baptised but that is all, others are only there for confirmation…each case is individual. Because there is the twist of having received sacraments in another denomination, you need to ask you RCIA Director. You could also try posting your question in the “Ask an apologist” forum and see what they say

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

While different baptisms are allowed…as long as certain requirements are met…its my understanding that confirmation is not universal. You have to be confirmed in the Catholic Church. Also, have you asked about your marriage? How long ago was it? Because in being baptized Catholic that would mean you were/are bound to the marriage laws of the Church.

 

[Maureen1125]

Because in being baptized Catholic that would mean you were/are bound to the marriage laws of the Church.

I could be mistaken, but I do not believe this to be true. You parents chose Catholism for you and had you baptised with the intention of raising you in the Catholic faith.

Confirmation is you choosing for yourself the Catholic Faith. Since you were confirmed and therefore choose a different denomination of faith, I do not think that you had any obligation to be married in a Catholic Church…especially not if you were actively practicing another faith

 

[BlytheSky]

I can’t talk about the sacrament of marriage, but I’m in a similar boat as far as the rest is concerned: I’m a baptised Catholic, but was confirmed as an Anglican.

My Anglican confirmation (and any non-Catholic confirmation) is not valid; when I’m confirmed at Easter, I won’t be confirmed again, I’ll be confirmed for the first time. The same is true for others in the same boat

However, because I was baptised as a Catholic, after I’d made my first confession I was able to take the Eucharist. According to my priest, there’s no reason to wait unless I want to.

Feels good to be back, doesn’t it

 

[MarkThompson]

Confirmation is you choosing for yourself the Catholic Faith.

Actually, no. Confirmation is an act of the Holy Spirit to make you strong (i.e. “firm”); at its sacramental heart, it has nothing to do with the person “confirming” that he wants to be a Catholic. This is why Confirmation can be given to an infant along with baptism, which is strongly urged to be done when the child is in danger of death. As the Catechism remarks, “In the first centuries Confirmation generally comprised one single celebration with Baptism, forming with it a ‘double sacrament,’ according to the expression of St. Cyprian.”

Confirmation is properly performed by the bishop, but he can grant faculties to priests to perform it in his stead and on his authority (as is usually done at the Easter Vigil). Since the Episcopal Church does not have valid bishops, they are, as I understand it, not capable of carrying out sacramental Confirmation, and the OP will be confirmed (notice the phrasing: she “gets confirmed [by God],” she doesn’t “confirm herself [as a Catholic]”) at the appropriate time.

 

[Sarahforgiven]

Yes, it feels good to be home. I have read about the confirmation being given to infants etc., I am really ok with doing this again, but was just curious.
I haven’t pushed the subject of the Eucharist with anyone, it took me 3 confessions to feel like I was in a state of grace enough to receive. It seems like in our parish they want us to wait. All in this years RCIA are candidates.
I was married in 1985 & don’t think the new marriage requirement were in place then, so I believe my marriage is valid. Does anyone know when the rule change was made?
This has been a great discussion, thanks everyone for all the posts

 

[Sarahforgiven]

Actually, no. Confirmation is an act of the Holy Spirit to make you strong (i.e. “firm”); at its sacramental heart, it has nothing to do with the person “confirming” that he wants to be a Catholic. This is why Confirmation can be given to an infant along with baptism, which is strongly urged to be done when the child is in danger of death. As the Catechism remarks, “In the first centuries Confirmation generally comprised one single celebration with Baptism, forming with it a ‘double sacrament,’ according to the expression of St. Cyprian.”

Confirmation is properly performed by the bishop, but he can grant faculties to priests to perform it in his stead and on his authority (as is usually done at the Easter Vigil). Since the Episcopal Church does not have valid bishops, they are, as I understand it, not capable of carrying out sacramental Confirmation, and the OP will be confirmed (notice the phrasing: she “gets confirmed [by God],” she doesn’t “confirm herself [as a Catholic]”) at the appropriate time.

That makes sense Mark, about the apostolic succession. I can tell you they think they have it via a laying on of hands in their history. I haven’t looked at that history & probably won’t. The fullness of truth is all I am interested in at this time:thumbsup:

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I could be mistaken, but I do not believe this to be true. You parents chose Catholism for you and had you baptised with the intention of raising you in the Catholic faith.

Confirmation is you choosing for yourself the Catholic Faith. Since you were confirmed and therefore choose a different denomination of faith, I do not think that you had any obligation to be married in a Catholic Church…especially not if you were actively practicing another faith

It actually is true…any baptized Catholic is bound by the marriage laws of the Church unless they have made a formal defection from the church. It does not matter what you would have chosen for yourself. Anyone who was baptized Catholic is by definition Catholic and therefore bound by the marriage laws of the church.

I was in this boat so I do know. However, the OP stated that they were married in 1985…I was married in 1988. The law had a clarification later on regarding formal defection that was NOT retroactive.

“The 1983 Code of Canon Law was the governing document at the time, and your baptism with intent to join another church while considering yourself no longer Catholic would have constituted a formal defection at the time. If your husband also formally defected then under the law in force in 1988 there would not be an impediment based on lack of form that would keep the marriage from coming into existence. The subsequent modifications to the law in the 2000s are not retroactive and would not affect this.”

I believe the same would apply for the OP.

 

[thomas_jd]

We were taught that Baptism joins you to the Catholic Church and Confirmation makes you a soldier for Christ!

 

[Corki]

I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant, but attended episcopal schools & was confirmed & married in the episcopal church.
My question relates to the 3 sacraments that cannot be repeated: baptism, confirmation, & holy orders. Now I am a candidate for reception into the Church. Are we repeating confirmation, because the apostolic succession is not recognized unless it is from the Catholic church proper?
I am thrilled to be finishing RCIA, and long for the Easter Vigil to be received, but was just concerned about being " confirmed" twice.
As the world turns further away from the truth, I am sure there will be more candidates with similar backgrounds.

First of all, welcome back.

The Confirmation in the non-Catholic Church is not valid. Being Confirmed in the Catholic Church isn’t repeating the Sacrament, it is being done validly for the first time.

Also, I have made my first confession, but we wait for first communion until the Easter Vigil. I have heard more than one scholar say that a baptized Catholic who has made a first confession & received Instruction, should not be held back from the Eucharist?
I am not upset about these things, just curious?

There are two things happening here. First, you “instruction” isn’t complete. So, you aren’t being held back as much as completing the instruction and discernment period first.

Second, as an adult, your Sacraments of initiation are generally given in the Traditional order - Baptism, then Confirmation, then First Communion.

Yes, it feels good to be home. I have read about the confirmation being given to infants etc., I am really ok with doing this again, but was just curious.
I haven’t pushed the subject of the Eucharist with anyone, it took me 3 confessions to feel like I was in a state of grace enough to receive. It seems like in our parish they want us to wait. All in this years RCIA are candidates.
I was married in 1985 & don’t think the new marriage requirement were in place then, so I believe my marriage is valid. Does anyone know when the rule change was made?
This has been a great discussion, thanks everyone for all the posts

It isn’t a new marriage requirement. It’s a change in what happens when someone formally defects from the Church. It doesn’t sound like you did that (defect formally) so there is no change that applies to your situation.

That makes sense Mark, about the apostolic succession. I can tell you they think they have it via a laying on of hands in their history. I haven’t looked at that history & probably won’t. The fullness of truth is all I am interested in at this time:thumbsup:

Apostolic succession is only one element. The Sacrament of Confirmation requires both a validly ordained clergyperson to convey it (usually a Bishop) but also that the person doing the Confirming have the faculties to do so. A non-Catholic clergyperson would not have the faculties to validly confer the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Confirmation is you choosing for yourself the Catholic Faith.

This is a misconception of the Sacrament of Confirmation. Confirmation is the sealing of the Spirit recieved in Baptism. It is not an adult choice in the faith. This misconception has been created by a separation of the Rites of Initiation within the Roman Church.

The Byzantine Catholic Churches Baptize, Chrimate (Confirm). and give First Eucharist to infants. So Confirmation can not be an adult choice.

No where in the Theology of the Sacrament of Confirmation is this idea expressed.

The Sacrament of Marriage is another Sacrament that can not be repeated. People who receive anulments may undergo the Sacrament of Marriage because the Church ruled that they had no valid Sacrmental Marriage.

Episcopal confirmations will are not accepted because the Episcopal Church lacks a valid priesthood, the only Sacrament they can confer then is Baptism.

If you were confirmed in an Orthodox Church it would be valid and would not be “repeated”.

 

[mrose1]

As one baptized in the Catholic Church, you are (as other posters have well noted) bound to the marriage laws of the Church (unless you had made a formal defection from the Church, which it seems you did not). Therefore, you need to either Convalidate your marriage (exchange vows with a cleric witnessing according to the Rite of the Church in order to be validly married), OR receive something called Radical Sanation, a rarer process which uses your original vows to validly establish a marriage. This second process usually only happens when the other spouse is unwilling to cooperate.

You desperately need to speak with the Pastor of your Parish about this before receiving the Sacraments.

 

[Sarahforgiven]

Wow, lots to think about here I will mention it to our priest ( the marriage item).
What we read in one of our books for RCIA on marriage did not go into that much detail. A second twist was that my husband was not baptized at the time we married. The materials we reviewed indicated that our marriage was valid, but not sacramental until my husband was baptized in 1991.
The reason I was not raised Catholic, was that my mother left the church. I attended an episcopal school, or might have remained unchurched all together. So I don’t believe there was any deliberate “leaving” the Church. I think the really cool part is that I was baptized RC & God has worked all things for good in bringing me home to the Church

 

[Phemie]

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding from the classes I took on the RCIA process, is that your confirmation in the Episcopal Church constitutes, for the purpose of RCIA, formal defection from the Church and requires that you go through the entire process just like a baptized non-Catholic coming into full communion.

It may also constitute formal defection for the purpose of marriage because of the date of your marriage and the lack of formal guidelines that existed at that time, but you should definitely check that out with your pastor.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant, but attended episcopal schools & was confirmed & married in the episcopal church.
My question relates to the 3 sacraments that cannot be repeated: baptism, confirmation, & holy orders. Now I am a candidate for reception into the Church. Are we repeating confirmation, because the apostolic succession is not recognized unless it is from the Catholic church proper?

welcome home!
you have actually not been confirmed because that rite as performed in the Episcopal Church is not a sacrament. That is because the ordinary minister is the bishop, who by definition must be in union with the Catholic Church and the Pope, so the first ceremony was not a valid Confirmation as the Catholi Church defines that sacrament.

Your situation however is not the same as those in your RCIA class who may have been validly baptized in another Christian denomination, because you are in fact already Catholic. That is why candidates should ask the pastor or RCIA director about their particular situation and not compare themselves or their progress, or timing of sacraments, with others in the class.

For you, once you have been instructed sufficiently to make your confession, and then to understand the nature of the Eucharist and the Real Presence, you should confess and receive first communion. Your confirmation will happen when your instruction has prepared you to make an intelligent profession of faith, and the timing will depend on when the bishop confirms adults in your diocese, or on whether he delegates that authority to the priest.

Those in your class who were baptized into other denominations ordinarily are prepared for and make confession shortly before they are confirmed, make the profession of faith, and receive first communion , the latter 2 sacraments in the same celebration, at EAster or another time designated by the bishop, which is their reception into full communion with the Catholic Church.

The difference in how your own progress toward sacraments may go depends on how your pastor and RCIA director discern and give pastoral care for the circumstance that while having been baptized Catholic, you later received Episcopal sacraments and formally entered that denomination. The fancy way to say it is that they will determine how and when you are to be restored to full communion. A lot of churchy talk which means, the timing will be the timing judged to be the most pastoral for your own situation. Please discuss this with the pastor so you have no surprises. Just don’t compare your own situation with that of others in your class, since their circumstances may differ from your own.

Again, when ever it happens, we will be rejoicing with you.

 

[Sarahforgiven]

Yes, it would seem logical that if I was confirmed in the episcopal church, that would constitute a defection. Not to seem disrespectful, but my husband just got home & I announced to him that we may not be married, we are both laughing quite a bit about this…
Well I am signing off this post, we are off to Friday Stations of the Cross & soup with the parish; & I promise everyone, I will ask our priest if we are really married.
I hope I have not offended anyone admitting we are laughing about this. After 25 years & 3 children it seems quite odd …

 

[puzzleannie]

Yes, it would seem logical that if I was confirmed in the episcopal church, that would constitute a defection.

that is why the pastor should discuss your particular situation with you. If your parents arranged this when you were a child, you did not formally defect. And yes depending on circumstances your marriage may need to be convalidated, generally before communion and confirmation, since you are still canonically bound by Catholic law on marriage, that again requires a personal conversation with the pastor. Yes you can do this. Just think it will mean not another burden, but another opportunity so share the grace of Christ through His sacraments.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Yes, it would seem logical that if I was confirmed in the episcopal church, that would constitute a defection. Not to seem disrespectful, but my husband just got home & I announced to him that we may not be married, we are both laughing quite a bit about this…
Well I am signing off this post, we are off to Friday Stations of the Cross & soup with the parish; & I promise everyone, I will ask our priest if we are really married.
I hope I have not offended anyone admitting we are laughing about this. After 25 years & 3 children it seems quite odd …

Been there…after 22 years of marriage…of course my husband wasn’t laughing…although now I tell him he has to buy me two anniversary gifts.

We are going to the Stations of the Cross tonight too…

 

[puzzleannie]

Been there…after 22 years of marriage…of course my husband wasn’t laughing…although now I tell him he has to buy me two anniversary gifts.
.

IMO you should seriously consider a second honeymoon after convalidation too, which is what I suggest to my confirmation candidates who are preparing for both sacraments. hey, go for it.