Conflict in Lutheran and Episcopal parishes

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We confessional Lutherans eagerly and prayerfully await our more liberal counterparts return to sanity.
 
This is from the Augustana parish website on what they, as Lutherans, believe. This was the former church of the now Apostles break away parish:
The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the written Word of God. Inspired by God’s Spirit speaking through their authors, they record and announce God’s revelation centering in Jesus Christ. Through them God’s Spirit speaks to us to create and sustain Christian faith and fellowship for service in the world.
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We use the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds as confessions of our faith. In addition we accept the Unaltered Augsburg Confession as a true witness to the Gospel, as well as the other confessional writings in the Book of Concord, namely, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Smalcald Articles and the Treatise, the Small Catechism, the Large Catechism, and the Formula of Concord, as further valid interpretations of the faith of the Church.
augustanaonline.org/
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EvangelCatholic said:
This is from the Augustana parish website on what they, as Lutherans, believe. This was the former church of the now Apostles break away parish:
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Sounds kind of… Lutheran, don’t you think?
Came across this article of another Lutheran parish divided over sexual orientation and biblical inerrancy. Also mentions the local Episcopal parish leaving the diocese. Sad situation that is reeking havoc in the American Church. Will these Lutherans and Episcopalians return?
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The sad situation is the ELCA moving away from the historic doctrine of the Church Catholic and the Book of Concord on these matters, EC.
You ask if they we “return”. It sounds like they just did return… to confessional Lutheran teaching.

Jon
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Came across this article of another Lutheran parish divided over sexual orientation and biblical inerrancy. Also mentions the local Episcopal parish leaving the diocese. Sad situation that is reeking havoc in the American Church. Will these Lutherans and Episcopalians return?

buffalonews.com/city-region/town-of-tonawanda/tonawanda-lutherans-leave-church-after-rift-20131018#
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Conflict in an Episcopal parish could come from Anglo-Catholic minded Episcopalians clash with low church minded ones. That is usually what I see most. Female ordination and the ordination of gay individuals is a very small issue that the media may kind blow a bit out of the water.

SS union blessing does not happen across the entire Church. If it is not legal in a state such as mine…the diocese does not do it. They can actually be brought up on charges within the Church for doing so. Even if it is legal in a state, it is up to the Bishop of the diocese to allow such blessings or not.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Conflict in an Episcopal parish could come from Anglo-Catholic minded Episcopalians clash with low church minded ones. That is usually what I see most. Female ordination and the ordination of gay individuals is a very small issue that the media may kind blow a bit out of the water.

SS union blessing does not happen across the entire Church. If it is not legal in a state such as mine…the diocese does not do it. They can actually be brought up on charges within the Church for doing so. Even if it is legal in a state, it is up to the Bishop of the diocese to allow such blessings or not.
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I can assure you that the issues relating to (for example) the 5 dioceses of TEC that are no longer members of TEC had almost nothing at all to do with high/low/Anglo-Catholic/evangelical issues. Sex/gender issues were the drivers, along with scriptural interpretation in general. This was not a repeat of the Tractarian/Ritualistic arguments of the 19th century, or even the opening moves of the Continuing Anglican departures. .

GKC
 
GKC said:
I can assure you that the issues relating to (for example) the 5 dioceses of TEC that are no longer members of TEC had almost nothing at all to do with high/low/Anglo-Catholic/evangelical issues. Sex/gender issues were the drivers…

GKC
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Maybe a bit
 
aidanbradypop said:
😃

I’m not saying it/was an issue for some but I do not see it as a major issue for the entire Episcopal Church.
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I had misread your post. It is a major issue for the communion. The doctrinal issues (high/low) have not been central to the fight since the early days of the Continuum, say35 years and more.

GKC
 
I hope that some of these unfortunate divisions may result in some of the affected parties seeing the call of God to come into and remain in His Church, the Catholic Church.
 
JonNC said:
Sounds kind of… Lutheran, don’t you think?

The sad situation is the ELCA moving away from the historic doctrine of the Church Catholic and the Book of Concord on these matters, EC.
You ask if they we “return”. It sounds like they just did return… to confessional Lutheran teaching.

Jon
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Yes, Jon, which means that Augustana, the parish the pastor and some members left to form Apostles parish, believes the same Lutheran Confessions. But I must agree that communing non baptized is a concern, as indicated in the article. I have never heard of ELCA parishes knowingly communing non-Christians.

But the real issue is how the Church deals with homosexuality. This is the biggest obstacle in Christianity today, in my opinion.
 
TRH1292 said:
I hope that some of these unfortunate divisions may result in some of the affected parties seeing the call of God to come into and remain in His Church, the Catholic Church.
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I hope we all find peace and love in Christ and then show that to one another. 👍
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, Jon, which means that Augustana, the parish the pastor and some members left to form Apostles parish, believes the same Lutheran Confessions. But I must agree that communing non baptized is a concern, as indicated in the article. I have never heard of ELCA parishes knowingly communing non-Christians.
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You and I have discussed this before, and I’ve even named several churches at your request. Regretfully, this is becoming more and more common in the ELCA; in turn, relations between the ELCA and orthodox church bodies will continue to grow more strained - and we will continue to observe congregations breaking away from the evermore earthly-focused and politicized national body.
EvangelCatholic said:
But the real issue is how the Church deals with homosexuality. This is the biggest obstacle in Christianity today, in my opinion.
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Or, rather, non-marital sex in general.
 
steido01 said:
You and I have discussed this before, and I’ve even named several churches at your request. Regretfully, this is becoming more and more common in the ELCA; in turn, relations between the ELCA and orthodox church bodies will continue to grow more strained - and we will continue to observe congregations breaking away from the evermore earthly-focused and politicized national body.

Or, rather, non-marital sex in general.
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I remember you citing examples of campus churches at universities. I just don’t understand the rationale for offering holy Communion to non-Christians. The ELCA allows baptized infants to receive [at least the host] but communing non-baptized confuses me. I think I need to investigate this practice.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I remember you citing examples of campus churches at universities. I just don’t understand the rationale for offering holy Communion to non-Christians. The ELCA allows baptized infants to receive [at least the host] but communing non-baptized confuses me. I think I need to investigate this practice.
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I believe that thread did name some parishes that are not campus congregations. Though I still do not understand why congregations at universities should be given a free pass on doctrine (after all, they call rostered pastors, number the student-worshipers among their members, and send members to vote at Synod assemblies like any other congregation) ?

Although I don’t agree with it, I can at least understand infant communion (and there may be some precedent for it in the East), but communing non-Christians and/or the unbaptized makes a farce of our Lord’s presence. If you do investigate this malpractice, please let me know what you find. I have yet to hear an explanation outside of the rather worthless “tolerance and inclusion” babble.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Yes, Jon, which means that Augustana, the parish the pastor and some members left to form Apostles parish, believes the same Lutheran Confessions. But I must agree that communing non baptized is a concern, as indicated in the article. I have never heard of ELCA parishes knowingly communing non-Christians.

But the real issue is how the Church deals with homosexuality. This is the biggest obstacle in Christianity today, in my opinion.
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Curiously, the ELCA’s partner, TEC, has been practicing the communing of unbaptized, perhaps not formally, for a while now, AFAIK.

I think Pope Francis has reminded us that, while scripture and the teaching of the Church has not changed regarding sexual activity outside of marriage, we are obligated to treat all sinners with love, and an eye toward grace.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Curiously, the ELCA’s partner, TEC, has been practicing the communing of unbaptized, perhaps not formally, for a while now, AFAIK.

I think Pope Francis has reminded us that, while scripture and the teaching of the Church has not changed regarding sexual activity outside of marriage, we are obligated to treat all sinners with love, and an eye toward grace.

Jon
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Not sure if it is throughout the Church as my parish still says…“And all those that are baptized are welcome to communion” so it may differ from parish to parish and diocese to diocese.
 
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