Conflicted Catholic

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iDdraig

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I wrote something similar to this as a response to a previous thread, but it has been eating at me and I am looking for advice.

In 2013 I chose to become Catholic, but for the last year I have been very conflicted in my dedication to God and to the Church. I spent the majority of my life Agnostic and for me, structured religion seemed to come at a cost of having to conform to beliefs that were not mine and I spent many years being jugged by so-called Christians that looked down upon me for not believing the way they did. However in 2005, I started to feel this calling towards the Church, like a calling to belong to something greater, even though I showed little devotion to following Christ. As more years passed, my wife convinced me to reach out to a local parish and look into RCIA. Even before my conversion, I struggled with both Church teachings and elements in the Bible and although looking back at it, I wasn’t ready to convert to Catholicism.

There are those that say a Catholic must conform to all Church teachings, to accept the Bible as an infallible holy book. For me, the Bible is a collection of stories that tries to explain a particular event, to a particular audience, at a particular time whether divine inspiration was present or not and I have no issues with that, because I believe it serves as a foundation to something greater, something the Church has continued to deliver these past 2000 years. However, I feel that I wear the mask of a Catholic, but I am not a true Catholic, a Christian, a follower of Christ. I don’t praise his name as I should, I don’t love him as I should, I don’t submit to all Church teachings and I don’t like how many Christians, not just Catholics, seem to forget “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” For me its not whether the Church is right or wrong, it’s a religion, a foundation of beliefs that people can choose to follow or not.

I am not sure what to do and I struggle on whether I should remain with the Church. I try to attend mass, I try to accept even though I know that I may never fully embrace Christianity and I know that I will struggle with this for many years. However, I know in my heart that I would rather be a struggling Catholic than belong to any other Christian denomination. This past year I have began to study Buddhism as a philosophy, a way to help me focus on the present and help eliminate unnecessary distractions that I hope will allow me to one day embrace God and fully accept Him and the Church within my heart and my life. Till then, I feel that I will continue to look out from behind the glass and struggle with the possibility that I, not God, will prevent myself from ever walking inside and truly embracing my right to call myself a Catholic.
 
Here’s a question from a homily I heard that made me face my own problems during similar struggles.

Are you living your life for others?

Just a thought.

God bless you in your struggles.
 
iDdraig said:
I wrote something similar to this as a response to a previous thread, but it has been eating at me and I am looking for advice.

In 2013 I chose to become Catholic, but for the last year I have been very conflicted in my dedication to God and to the Church. I spent the majority of my life Agnostic and for me, structured religion seemed to come at a cost of having to conform to beliefs that were not mine and I spent many years being jugged by so-called Christians that looked down upon me for not believing the way they did. However in 2005, I started to feel this calling towards the Church, like a calling to belong to something greater, even though I showed little devotion to following Christ. As more years passed, my wife convinced me to reach out to a local parish and look into RCIA. Even before my conversion, I struggled with both Church teachings and elements in the Bible and although looking back at it, I wasn’t ready to convert to Catholicism.

There are those that say a Catholic must conform to all Church teachings, to accept the Bible as an infallible holy book. For me, the Bible is a collection of stories that tries to explain a particular event, to a particular audience, at a particular time whether divine inspiration was present or not and I have no issues with that, because I believe it serves as a foundation to something greater, something the Church has continued to deliver these past 2000 years. However, I feel that I wear the mask of a Catholic, but I am not a true Catholic, a Christian, a follower of Christ. I don’t praise his name as I should, I don’t love him as I should, I don’t submit to all Church teachings and I don’t like how many Christians, not just Catholics, seem to forget “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” For me its not whether the Church is right or wrong, it’s a religion, a foundation of beliefs that people can choose to follow or not.

I am not sure what to do and I struggle on whether I should remain with the Church. I try to attend mass, I try to accept even though I know that I may never fully embrace Christianity and I know that I will struggle with this for many years. However, I know in my heart that I would rather be a struggling Catholic than belong to any other Christian denomination. This past year I have began to study Buddhism as a philosophy, a way to help me focus on the present and help eliminate unnecessary distractions that I hope will allow me to one day embrace God and fully accept Him and the Church within my heart and my life. Till then, I feel that I will continue to look out from behind the glass and struggle with the possibility that I, not God, will prevent myself from ever walking inside and truly embracing my right to call myself a Catholic.
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Everyone has some struggles to pass through.

As for me, it helped me that I Remembered, that it was not me who “chose to be catholic”. And neither did You “choose to be catholic”! It was the Holy Spirit Who really chose You! That is inexplicable desire, attraction to the Truth, although I are not yet ready to embrace it with reason. For many converts, St. Augustine included, it was a matter of will, not that of reason, to become true Christian! Remember this! And may Our Mother help You overcome all this! :heaven:
 
My friend you have a lot going on so the best suggestion that I can think to give you is for you to make an appointment with a priest and explore getting a spiritual director in your life. I think it will be very beneficial to you and in the mean time I would avoid the Buddhism study and focus on the Holy Scriptures.
 
iDdraig said:
However, I feel that I wear the mask of a Catholic, but I am not a true Catholic, a Christian, a follower of Christ. I don’t praise his name as I should, I don’t love him as I should, I don’t submit to all Church teachings and I don’t like how many Christians, not just Catholics, seem to forget “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” For me its not whether the Church is right or wrong, it’s a religion, a foundation of beliefs that people can choose to follow or not.
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Hey iDdraig

I understand your concerns and that you are not “feeling” the love for the church or for Jesus as you should (your words). When I came to faith I wasn’t sure about “loving” the church and the love for Jesus. I remember watching people on TBN (Christian network) or EWTN (Catholic TV) and these people would talk about how in love they were with Christ.
At first I thought that “in love with Christ” was to be in love with the physically boundary form of the man Jesus. But as I grew in knowledge of the Catholic Faith and practicing it (even when I struggled with it). I found HOW to love Jesus and the church.

You had it pegged with the “thou shalt love thy neighbor……” because to be in love with Jesus means to do HIS commands especially “love one another as I loved you”. Most people think of the Love for Others as the emotional action but that’s not exactly what the LOVE God wants from us. When we are upset at some point in our daily lives we will lash out at another or be (name removed by moderator)atient because of how we feel (our own feelings). When we obey God and LOVE thy neighbor we are to do more than just the emotional happy face love; we are to set aside OUR own feelings, our own thoughts, and our own wants. We are to do this to know and understand the person(s) around us and think about their feelings, thoughts, and wants. We are to do this when we are happy, sad, upset, rushed, nervous, etc…

When we obey this command (even if we fail at times we must continue) one does begin to understand the true love for one another and thus one begins TRULY loving Jesus and His Church. Then you will begin to understand the fruits (teachings) of the Church as the teachings of the church are not to impose a personal agenda of one Pope, Bishop, or Priest but to reinforce the true wants of God for His people.

I would suggest you join some groups within your local church and meet some more Catholics in social settings because you will find there are more Catholics out there that do have a great understanding, and love (as described above) for Jesus and His Church.

God Bless!
 
mark_a said:
Are you living your life for others?
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In some capability or another I believe we all have lived our lives for others. However, the one thing I am sure of is that I am living my life they way I want to except for the struggles I have with Catholicism. I worry that the reason I struggle with this, is because to embrace it, I would not be true to myself.
JurisPrudens said:
As for me, it helped me that I Remembered, that it was not me who “chose to be catholic”. And neither did You “choose to be catholic”! It was the Holy Spirit Who really chose You!
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I do agree. For me to go from being Agnostic to Catholic must have had been by divine inspiration. What are the odds that I would have chosen this path without it?
WT1 said:
make an appointment with a priest and explore getting a spiritual director in your life.
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I have tried this in the past and was placed in contact with a Deacon. Although helpful, it didn’t make much of a difference with the struggles I have been experiencing. Not sure how to find a spiritual director.
 
hiramross said:
Hey iDdraig

I understand your concerns and that you are not “feeling” the love for the church or for Jesus as you should (your words). When I came to faith I wasn’t sure about “loving” the church and the love for Jesus. I remember watching people on TBN (Christian network) or EWTN (Catholic TV) and these people would talk about how in love they were with Christ.
At first I thought that “in love with Christ” was to be in love with the physically boundary form of the man Jesus. But as I grew in knowledge of the Catholic Faith and practicing it (even when I struggled with it). I found HOW to love Jesus and the church.

You had it pegged with the “thou shalt love thy neighbor……” because to be in love with Jesus means to do HIS commands especially “love one another as I loved you”. Most people think of the Love for Others as the emotional action but that’s not exactly what the LOVE God wants from us. When we are upset at some point in our daily lives we will lash out at another or be (name removed by moderator)atient because of how we feel (our own feelings). When we obey God and LOVE thy neighbor we are to do more than just the emotional happy face love; we are to set aside OUR own feelings, our own thoughts, and our own wants. We are to do this to know and understand the person(s) around us and think about their feelings, thoughts, and wants. We are to do this when we are happy, sad, upset, rushed, nervous, etc…

When we obey this command (even if we fail at times we must continue) one does begin to understand the true love for one another and thus one begins TRULY loving Jesus and His Church. Then you will begin to understand the fruits (teachings) of the Church as the teachings of the church are not to impose a personal agenda of one Pope, Bishop, or Priest but to reinforce the true wants of God for His people.

I would suggest you join some groups within your local church and meet some more Catholics in social settings because you will find there are more Catholics out there that do have a great understanding, and love (as described above) for Jesus and His Church.

God Bless!
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I still struggle with this, both with loving Christ and will reaching out within the Parish. I’m not sure if it is because of a lack of commit or something more sinister that is preventing me. I have never seen that explanation before and it will help me better understand how to love God a different way. I thank you!
 
Dorothy said:
Some good spiritual books, and books on the lives of the saints would be very good.

I highly recommend “The Fulfillment of all Desire” by Ralph Martin. It contains the wisdom of the saints.

You can read reviews here:

amazon.com/Fulfillment-All-Desire-Ralph-Martin/dp/1931018367/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437963218&sr=1-1&ppl=fresh&keywords=the+fulfillment+of+all+desire+by+ralph+martin#customerReviews
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Thank you for your recommendation. I’ll take a look.
 
I was agnostic too and God guided me to the Catholic church. It is hard, I totally hear what you are saying.

Something that is very important to me to keep in mind is that there is no other love like God’s love. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. No other religion teaches love like God’s love. This is the love that “love they neighbor as your self” is also derived.

In addition to reading the Bible daily and going to mass at least a couple times a week, I have learned a lot from a few other sources…EWTN, Father Robert Barron bible studies, contemplative prayer.

Agnosticism came with a need for healing from being agnostic such as skepticism, lack of knowledge of the faith, little faith, lack of prayer, having to trust despite my temptation to judge or do things based on my own understanding, asking and listening for the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Agnostics don’t always come with a lot of fertile soil, so we have to pray and dive deep into educating ourselves in the faith so that we may be fertile soil where the seeds are sown, otherwise our own skepticism and doubt may come in like birds picking the seeds that have been sown. Pray over God’s word that it may take deep root in your spirit. Pray often, daily, many times a day and let your heart not be hardened.

God bless!
 
tifischer said:
I was agnostic too and God guided me to the Catholic church. It is hard, I totally hear what you are saying.

Something that is very important to me to keep in mind is that there is no other love like God’s love. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. No other religion teaches love like God’s love. This is the love that “love they neighbor as your self” is also derived.

In addition to reading the Bible daily and going to mass at least a couple times a week, I have learned a lot from a few other sources…EWTN, Father Robert Barron bible studies, contemplative prayer.

Agnosticism came with a need for healing from being agnostic such as skepticism, lack of knowledge of the faith, little faith, lack of prayer, having to trust despite my temptation to judge or do things based on my own understanding, asking and listening for the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Agnostics don’t always come with a lot of fertile soil, so we have to pray and dive deep into educating ourselves in the faith so that we may be fertile soil where the seeds are sown, otherwise our own skepticism and doubt may come in like birds picking the seeds that have been sown. Pray over God’s word that it may take deep root in your spirit. Pray often, daily, many times a day and let your heart not be hardened.

God bless!
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Thanks be to the Lord for what you shared! You can be helpful to others who thought as you did.
What an awesome God we have.
 
I take the position the Catholic Church is “closest” to the truth. I don’t agree with or have issues with a couple of church teachings, but then I take the view that God’s given me a brain to think with, and He expects me to use it, even if others want to cram down my throat that I have to believe every last bit of church teaching, which I don’t. They can go jump as far as I’m concerned.

But I agree with most of it.

However, to take a step backwards, when I was still a fairly new Protestant (Presbyterian) Christian, over half a lifetime ago, I was at what we call a Scripture Union Beach Mission at a place called Forest Glen Caravan Park in South East Queensland near Nambour. I was supposed to be a “leader”, but I didn’t feel like it.

It was Christmas 1983.

At the same time, I was going through a divorce, had been chewed out by the boss before I left for the mission, the house was up for sale or had been sold due to the divorce, with financial difficulties due to previous unemployment, and I was not in a very good mood.

Anyway one of the outcomes of this was “How do I know this is all real, and not just a psychological prop?!”

After all, if God loved me so much, then why the hell had He given me a disability (moderate to severe hearing loss), destroyed my confidence with a very cruel father over a 20 year period, pretty much torpedoed my chances of studying effectively due to depression, shafted any chance of a career to that point, and generally just been a vindictive martinet, as well as expecting me to perform at this “beach mission” when I felt quite out of my depth?

Even my old pastor admitted (some years later) “All He’s done all your life is humiliate you! What have you done to deserve all this?” I have to admit I don’t like God much at times - He can be very unfair.

Moving back - it was in this frame of mind, although saying nothing to any of the other camp personnel - that I was sitting under a marquis during one of the Bible study sessions we had each afternoon at around 3pm. This was for the “leaders”, like me.

I was actually half dozing off as it was around Christmas in sub-tropical heat, and had not slept very well due to the tension in my mind.

Anyway while I was sitting there in this cranky state of mind, in somnolent surroundings, that the overall camp leader just happened to read a passage from Kings or Samuel, referring to David. The words were “… a man after my own heart…”.

Precisely as he read those words, this “double whammy” hit me - it was like a strong breath going through me in waves from head to foot. I nearly jumped off the chair, I got such a shock.

I’d just been contacted! It was real!

I spoke to my pastor a short time later, after the camp was over. His response was “I think the Lord just wanted to encourage you. He knew you’d been gong through a hard time, and just wanted you to know He’s there.”

So that was that, and ever since then I’ve never been able to deny the reality of God. He knows me, and He even knows my frame of mind. Mind you, I don’t always like Him much, but I’d be kidding myself to deny HIs reality.

That happened 3 times incidentally and each time it was used to emphasise something the speaker was saying. I still remember the 3 phrases years later, and **only because **of the “double whammy” that hit me each time. And there’s been other distinct events as well.

I think you need some sort of divine nudge. I’d suggest you just pray for it. But don’t sit around waiting for it. If it’s going to come,* it will be when you least expect it.*

Just like the Second Coming.
 
iDdraig said:
This past year I have began to study Buddhism as a philosophy, a way to help me focus on the present and help eliminate unnecessary distractions that I hope will allow me to one day embrace God and fully accept Him and the Church within my heart and my life.
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This is a big part of the problem: there is absolutely nothing that you can do on a natural level that will give you Faith. You can study any number of subjects, and you can be the world’s greatest expert on each of them, and you can have absolutely zero faith.

Faith is a supernatural virtue that’s infused into a person’s soul by God. It is a grace in the will that disposes us to assent to revealed truths that are present in our intellect. All you can do is dispose yourself to it, and God will freely give it, but dispose yourself you must. Unfortunately for all of us, disposing yourself to grace involves a great deal of true repentance from sin. Perhaps you’re a living Saint, I don’t know. But if I were in your shoes, I would look myself in the mirror and ask what sins are holding me back, and what it is in my life that I refuse to give up that is offensive to God.

Frankly, I get nervous any time I hear a Catholic talking about refusing to assent to certain dogmas. On a spiritual level there’s a problem there, because that communicates a lack of living, supernatural faith in that person’s life. Unfortunately, that lack of faith isn’t due to some sort of lacking on God’s part, and folks need to make some changes in their life. (And they do need to be in a state of grace to make those changes.)

Living, as we do, in a culture that loathes doing anything arduous that will separate it from its own pleasure, working with God to make some serious changes is quite a challenge. Rooting out the vast imperfections of our bodies, and making our passions submit to reason is incredibly difficult.

But before you wander too far, why don’t you take up the challenge. Spend some time getting serious about Confession and developing virtue. You’ll be amazed at the difference this will make, and you’ll be amazed at how richly God will reward you with faith.
 
O_Lumen said:
This is a big part of the problem: there is absolutely nothing that you can do on a natural level that will give you Faith. You can study any number of subjects, and you can be the world’s greatest expert on each of them, and you can have absolutely zero faith.
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Unless I am misunderstanding you, the statement I wrote dealt more with the feelings I have towards the politics of our religion and how it prevents me from celebrating our faith. My studies in Buddhism have nothing to do with obtaining faith. I like most, experience “squirrel moments” and Buddhism helps me focus on the present. So for example when attending Mass, I focus on the Mass and not on the 20 other tasks I have scheduled for the day.
 
iDdraig said:
Unless I am misunderstanding you, the statement I wrote dealt more with the feelings I have towards the politics of our religion and how it prevents me from celebrating our faith. My studies in Buddhism have nothing to do with obtaining faith. I like most, experience “squirrel moments” and Buddhism helps me focus on the present. So for example when attending Mass, I focus on the Mass and not on the 20 other tasks I have scheduled for the day.
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When you say “Buddhism” helps you focus on the present, do you mean the religion itself or the process of meditation?
 
There are some people who have the gift of faith and there are others - like me - who have to struggle and fight with it. Test it. Push it. It’s a question if you are more like “Mary” or more like “Jacob.”

I think that some of what you said has to do more with being a convert, not necessarily being Catholic.

I converted in 2012 and sometimes I still feel like I’m putting on a mask or “trying on” an identity that isn’t completely mine. I think that comes with the territory.

It’s not that I don’t believe, but the lifestyle and culture are different (for serious, practicing Catholics) and there are still some things that I’m working through. However, without a serious community surrounding you, it’s hard to keep growing in the faith.

Questioning doesn’t mean that you are losing faith. It means that you’ve reached a point where you want to go deeper, but you don’t know how to do that.

I really just wanted to say that you aren’t alone. We’ve all got stuff to work through. We don’t leave our old ways (or thought patterns) behind when we join the church. Since I’ve never been an agnostic, I can’t speak to that, but I glad that others on CAF can.

Pray. Find good Catholics to surround yourself with. People can only help if they know there’s a problem.
 
iDdraig said:
I wrote something similar to this as a response to a previous thread, but it has been eating at me and I am looking for advice.

In 2013 I chose to become Catholic, but for the last year I have been very conflicted in my dedication to God and to the Church. I spent the majority of my life Agnostic and for me, structured religion seemed to come at a cost of having to conform to beliefs that were not mine and I spent many years being jugged by so-called Christians that looked down upon me for not believing the way they did. However in 2005, I started to feel this calling towards the Church, like a calling to belong to something greater, even though I showed little devotion to following Christ. As more years passed, my wife convinced me to reach out to a local parish and look into RCIA. Even before my conversion, I struggled with both Church teachings and elements in the Bible and although looking back at it, I wasn’t ready to convert to Catholicism.

There are those that say a Catholic must conform to all Church teachings, to accept the Bible as an infallible holy book. For me, the Bible is a collection of stories that tries to explain a particular event, to a particular audience, at a particular time whether divine inspiration was present or not and I have no issues with that, because I believe it serves as a foundation to something greater, something the Church has continued to deliver these past 2000 years. However, I feel that I wear the mask of a Catholic, but I am not a true Catholic, a Christian, a follower of Christ. I don’t praise his name as I should, I don’t love him as I should, I don’t submit to all Church teachings and I don’t like how many Christians, not just Catholics, seem to forget “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” For me its not whether the Church is right or wrong, it’s a religion, a foundation of beliefs that people can choose to follow or not.

I am not sure what to do and I struggle on whether I should remain with the Church. I try to attend mass, I try to accept even though I know that I may never fully embrace Christianity and I know that I will struggle with this for many years. However, I know in my heart that I would rather be a struggling Catholic than belong to any other Christian denomination. This past year I have began to study Buddhism as a philosophy, a way to help me focus on the present and help eliminate unnecessary distractions that I hope will allow me to one day embrace God and fully accept Him and the Church within my heart and my life. Till then, I feel that I will continue to look out from behind the glass and struggle with the possibility that I, not God, will prevent myself from ever walking inside and truly embracing my right to call myself a Catholic.
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I see a relationship with God as like a marriage, in that it is a loving relationship where you make a commitment in the hope that it is for the long haul, and where if that long haul is to be achieved (with all the rewards that entails) you have to have a realistic approach to how things are going to be.

There will be dry patches, there will be things you don’t agree on - even things you outright dislike about what the other Party in your relationship says. There may even be periods where you aren’t speaking, just as there will be times where the love in your relationship washes over you by surprise some mundane day. The actual moments of emotional fireworks, the real life-changing moments that set your world alight, are likely to be very few and far between.

I think that just like said marriage, a relationship with God can be soured by the wrong expectations. I would first make a conscious effort to stop placing expectations on yourself, and your relationship with your religion, and your relationship with God, and embrace the fact that it isn’t going to be a romantic weekend in Paris very often, or immediately, and you aren’t going to feel every teaching resonating through your soul like thunder and I’m sorry but regardless of what any third party says, your relationship with God is not over because of any of these things.

I think life is mostly dry patches and coping with disagreements and people who don’t love their neighbour as they should and us not being able to tolerate other people quite as well as we should, and observing rules we don’t like as well as ones we do, and none of this really a reason why you need to drop your faith. You have obviously felt called to where you are for a reason, why not allow yourself the possibility of dry patches and let it deepen and grow in its own way, and not worry or over-think. I think in the long run if you don’t place too much pressure on things being a certain way, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Reading that back, I’m almost sure I have reaaaaally clumsily paraphrased C S Lewis here, might be worth checking as I’m sure he would have put it better than I did. 🙂
 
Your story brought to mind a penance I received once in Confession- I was told to say 3 Hail Mary’s and ask Our Lady to lead me to her Divine Son.

Since then I often ask Our Lady to lead me to Christ, to help me to love Him better, etc. Surely as His mother, Our Lady loved Him so very much. Who better to ask to help you to learn to love Him also?

Also, one time in Confession I asked Father if it was a sin to disagree with a Church teaching, provided you did not actively work, teach or act against it. The short answer was no. The long answer was, “I think that when we get to Heaven, we’ll all have 5 or 10 things that we will want to ask God.” That came from a Priest, so I think that everyone struggles with some things.
 
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