Confused aboud NFP

[pensmama87]

That depends on a lot of factors, but as a general guideline I’d say at least 3-6 months. You need time to learn your body, plus in your case you’re coming off hormones that could be making things even more wacky. If your charts are staying really weird, that could be a sign of an underlying health issue.

If you really, really, really shouldn’t get pregnant, then you need to abstain. That doesn’t make abstinence easier, but when you’re starting out it’s often recommended to abstain completely - unless, of course, you’re willing to get pregnant.

 

[Kelfa28]

That depends on a lot of factors, but as a general guideline I’d say at least 3-6 months. You need time to learn your body, plus in your case you’re coming off hormones that could be making things even more wacky. If your charts are staying really weird, that could be a sign of an underlying health issue.

If you really, really, really shouldn’t get pregnant, then you need to abstain. That doesn’t make abstinence easier, but when you’re starting out it’s often recommended to abstain completely - unless, of course, you’re willing to get pregnant.

Some women can do it in as little as one cycle…but I’m with Pensmama on this.

It generally takes 3-6 months for you to really get a decent grasp on NFP. You need to be able to compare with old charts and see a pattern start to emerge.

After my first baby…I had NFP down fairly well after 2 cycles. Then I had my second baby and nothing made sense…even after 6 months of charting.

You really shouldn’t be having any kind of intimacy if you are trying to figure out your fertility patterns.

For one…seminal fluid can be easily confused with mucus if you aren’t familiar with the difference and for two…you really don’t have any concrete idea when you ovulate.

 

[maryjk]

Some women can do it in as little as one cycle…but I’m with Pensmama on this.

It generally takes 3-6 months for you to really get a decent grasp on NFP. You need to be able to compare with old charts and see a pattern start to emerge.

I came off of the pill to chart.

And my cycles settled down pretty quickly.

But it took a couple of full months.

Starbelle, you started this thread less than a month ago. I would be very surprised that your cycle straightened out enough at this point to be able to read your signs. Especially if you are continuing to have relations.

 

[misspriss]

I used to be on the pill, it took me probably about 6 months to be to a predictable pattern after quitting. I was having cycles after 1-2 months, but they were not reliably predictable.

 

[Starbelle]

I somehow thought that a pattern would be visible from the first month. But if it took a few months for you ladies, then there is probably nothing wrong with me, and I just have to give it some time. Thanks. Hopefully I’ll figure it out in a couple of months.

 

[misspriss]

I somehow thought that a pattern would be visible from the first month. But if it took a few months for you ladies, then there is probably nothing wrong with me, and I just have to give it some time. Thanks. Hopefully I’ll figure it out in a couple of months.

Hormonal contraceptives trick the body into not working as it is supposed to, hormones can be fickle things about getting back to “normal”. Then again, some people have no issues and just go right back to normal.

 

[Kelfa28]

Hormonal contraceptives trick the body into not working as it is supposed to, hormones can be fickle things about getting back to “normal”. Then again, some people have no issues and just go right back to normal.

It’s truly amazing how much Birth Control can really mess with your body.

Most women I talk to absolutely hate the pill but see it as a necessary evil they have to put up with.

I hated the pill and I’m glad I won’t be using it again.

 

[maryjk]

It’s truly amazing how much Birth Control can really mess with your body.

Most women I talk to absolutely hate the pill but see it as a necessary evil they have to put up with.

I hated the pill and I’m glad I won’t be using it again.

I so totally agree with your last statement.

I truly hated it.

 

[pensmama87]

I so totally agree with your last statement.

I truly hated it.

Add me to that list, too. I only used it a few years but that was more than enough.

 

[TheFraggle]

Hello everyone!!!

My husband and I are both catholics. However, I have been taking pills for quite some time because of the fact that we really can’t have a baby right now. I know that is not a method approved by the church, therefore I have decided to stop taking them and give NFP a chance. Besides the usual tracking of the symptoms I will also use ovulation tests to be more accurate. But I must admit I am very nervous about it… I’ve read a lot and seems that many people experienced “accidents” with this method. How safe is it really?
I plan on using it to my best of knowledge and extend the abstinence period from the usual 10-14 days to 20-25, just to be on the safe side. What do you think, could this work? Or is it total abstinence a more realistic aproach?

To make everything clear and avoid misunderstandings or any advice that would not suit our situation: We don’t have any kids, I have never been pregnant, I’m 29. It’s not that we wouldn’t want a baby, it’s just that our financial situation is hard, we barely sustain ourselves from month to month. We live in a poor country in Eastern Europe, so any suggestion that would apply to couples living in well-developed countries is not applicable to us. We are trying to improve our situation, but I really don’t know if and when will thing change.

Thanks.
(I hope I have made myself understood since I am not a native speaker)

The pill actually causes abortions. That and all hormonal contraceptives. So technically, you were a mother. The baby (or babies) were just aborted.

 

[pensmama87]

The pill actually causes abortions. That and all hormonal contraceptives. So technically, you were a mother. The baby (or babies) were just aborted.

This is not accurate. It is a possibility that it may occur, but the primary mechanism is suppressing ovulation. No ovulation → no baby → no abortion.

There is the possibility of breakthrough ovulation, in which the baby could fail to implant into the uterine wall because the hormones in the Pill prevent thickening of the uterine lining, and that would be abortifacent, but it’s not known how frequently it occurs. (But even if it never occurred, use of hormonal contraceptives would still be immoral.)

 

[Kelfa28]

The pill actually causes abortions. That and all hormonal contraceptives. So technically, you were a mother. The baby (or babies) were just aborted.

What an uncharitable comment to make.

Especially since plenty of Catholic women take the pill for medical purposes and are still morally able to have intimate relationships with there husbands.

Plus…that isn’t how the pill works…please do your research properly before posting such awful things to women who are trying to make changes and live their faith the way God intended them to.

I was on the pill for several years before I converted…hearing this is seriously upsetting and triggering for me and probably for a number of women on this board who are trying to live holy lives but made mistakes in their past.

Why do we need to be attacked for mistakes we might have made but repented?

 

[TheFraggle]

This is not accurate. It is a possibility that it may occur, but the primary mechanism is suppressing ovulation. No ovulation → no baby → no abortion.

There is the possibility of breakthrough ovulation, in which the baby could fail to implant into the uterine wall because the hormones in the Pill prevent thickening of the uterine lining, and that would be abortifacent, but it’s not known how frequently it occurs. (But even if it never occurred, use of hormonal contraceptives would still be immoral.)

The Physician’s Desk Reference says it operates as an abortifacient (to prevent implantation) sometimes. The representatives of Ortho McNiel says it works that way. You are contradicting yourself. You are saying it could act as an abortifacient, but it doesn’t happen often.

Dr. Brian Cowles from the book, The Facts of Life says, “Some researchers (using very conservative figures)have calculated that the birth prevention pill directly causes between 1.53 and 4.15 million chemical abortions per year in the United States - up to two and half times the total number of surgical abortions committed every year.”

You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth with your argument. If you are indeed Catholic, why wouldn’t you care about this genocide?

 

[jmjZelie]

What an uncharitable comment to make.

Especially since plenty of Catholic women take the pill for medical purposes and are still morally able to have intimate relationships with there husbands.

Plus…that isn’t how the pill works…please do your research properly before posting such awful things to women who are trying to make changes and live their faith the way God intended them to.

I was on the pill for several years before I converted…hearing this is seriously upsetting and triggering for me and probably for a number of women on this board who are trying to live holy lives but made mistakes in their past.

Why do we need to be attacked for mistakes we might have made but repented?

This is true. I was raised outside the Church. I am a convert. My parents taught me that using the birth control pill was a requirement, not an option. I was taught that a woman has to do so, until her husband gives her permission to stop using it. (Yes, that is seriously messed up, which is why I am now happy to be Catholic.) It was horrifying to me to find out that it was possible that I might have conceived and miscarried while on the Pill. That was something I found out that made me determined never to use it again, and eventually led to my conversion. But, if I had been accused of aborting my babies, as if I made them die on purpose, well, that is hard to bear. I would never had killed my babies on purpose. I was simply never informed those years that I used the Pill (which by the way, seriously messed up my health, too) that my babies would likely be unable to implant and would die if conception had occurred. When you know better, you do better. But accusing a woman, and making her feel like a murderer, is not going to help them be able to seek God’s mercy.

 

[jmjZelie]

The Physician’s Desk Reference says it operates as an abortifacient (to prevent implantation) sometimes. The representatives of Ortho McNiel says it works that way. You are contradicting yourself. You are saying it could act as an abortifacient, but it doesn’t happen often.

Dr. Brian Cowles from the book, The Facts of Life says, “Some researchers (using very conservative figures)have calculated that the birth prevention pill directly causes between 1.53 and 4.15 million chemical abortions per year in the United States - up to two and half times the total number of surgical abortions committed every year.”

You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth with your argument. If you are indeed Catholic, why wouldn’t you care about this genocide?

You are fortune telling in your original comment to the OP. You have no way of knowing if she ever conceived and miscarried her baby, due to the contraceptive. Direct abortion is different from a woman being unaware that her baby is not being allowed to implant due to a medication she is using. So there are two things that are objectionable in your original comment.
First, you have no way of knowing that she ever conceived.
Second, losing her newly conceived baby due to an unknown side effect is morally different than willful direct abortion.

 

[pensmama87]

The Physician’s Desk Reference says it operates as an abortifacient (to prevent implantation) sometimes. The representatives of Ortho McNiel says it works that way. You are contradicting yourself. You are saying it could act as an abortifacient, but it doesn’t happen often.

Dr. Brian Cowles from the book, The Facts of Life says, “Some researchers (using very conservative figures)have calculated that the birth prevention pill directly causes between 1.53 and 4.15 million chemical abortions per year in the United States - up to two and half times the total number of surgical abortions committed every year.”

You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth with your argument. If you are indeed Catholic, why wouldn’t you care about this genocide?

I do care; but you won’t get far making claims that are easily refuted. As I said, the Pill may act in that way. What you are saying doesn’t contradict that and actually supports it (though I’d like to know how they got their numbers.) Additionally, the immorality of contraception does NOT depend on its potential to act as an abortifacent.

Frankly, you have no idea if the OP lost children through the use of hormonal contraceptives, and it’s cruel to insist upon it as if it were factual.

The OP is trying to align herself with the Church and God’s plan for sexuality.

 

[TheFraggle]

What an uncharitable comment to make.

Especially since plenty of Catholic women take the pill for medical purposes and are still morally able to have intimate relationships with there husbands.

Plus…that isn’t how the pill works…please do your research properly before posting such awful things to women who are trying to make changes and live their faith the way God intended them to.

I was on the pill for several years before I converted…hearing this is seriously upsetting and triggering for me and probably for a number of women on this board who are trying to live holy lives but made mistakes in their past.

Why do we need to be attacked for mistakes we might have made but repented?

We are all on the same page here. We are all trying to save babies. And one should not be made guilty if they have repented.

However, people should know the truth of the roads they have taken, so they do not make the same mistake, or minimize a sinful action that will result in death eventually.

The principle of double effect does not hold in this case. This is so because whatever benefits the pill may boast does not outweigh the eventuality of a child’s death.

If double effect is applicable here, you can take anything during pregnancy, and say it’s medicinal. But prenatal advice of avoiding certain medicines still should be followed by Catholics in spite of the good it may do.

 

[TheFraggle]

You are fortune telling in your original comment to the OP. You have no way of knowing if she ever conceived and miscarried her baby, due to the contraceptive. Direct abortion is different from a woman being unaware that her baby is not being allowed to implant due to a medication she is using. So there are two things that are objectionable in your original comment.
First, you have no way of knowing that she ever conceived.
Second, losing her newly conceived baby due to an unknown side effect is morally different than willful direct abortion.

That is like saying I am going to shoot in the woods with kids around for whatever reason. Your intention isn’t to kill, but there’s a great likelihood someone will die.

The Church states in that case the guilty is still there because of the very real possibility of death.

 

[pensmama87]

That is like saying I am going to shoot in the woods with kids around for whatever reason. Your intention isn’t to kill, but there’s a great likelihood someone will die.

The Church states in that case the guilty is still there because of the very real possibility of death.

What you are saying is not helpful; please stop.

In general, I think this line of argument is much more suited to a general discussion on the topic, rather than specific situations. The OP cannot change the past, but she has committed to following Church teaching and that’s what this thread is about.

 

[UbiCaritas]

We are all on the same page here. We are all trying to save babies. And one should not be made guilty if they have repented.

However, people should know the truth of the roads they have taken, so they do not make the same mistake, or minimize a sinful action that will result in death eventually.

The principle of double effect does not hold in this case. This is so because whatever benefits the pill may boast does not outweigh the eventuality of a child’s death.

If double effect is applicable here, you can take anything during pregnancy, and say it’s medicinal. But prenatal advice of avoiding certain medicines still should be followed by Catholics in spite of the good it may do.

Actually, you’re wrong on this.

Catholic teaching does allow for the principle of double effect when treating pregnant women.

Here’s an example for you: ectopic pregnancy. In an ectopic pregnancy, the baby implants outside of the uterus, usually in a Fallopian tube. The baby can grow there for a time, but that area isn’t designed to hold a baby. The tube will eventually rupture, causing hemorrhage, sepsis, and death in the mom. There is no alternative.

In such cases, a Catholic woman can in good conscience have the baby removed not in order to kill the baby, although that’s sadly inevitable (we’re talking 6-8 weeks gestation, no possibility of survival), but in order to save mom’s life.

Likewise, it is permitted to take medication ordinarily used as contraception in order to treat an illness. Endometriosis, for example, is often treated via birth control pills in order to alleviate the pain and suffering of the woman in question. The intent isn’t to keep her from getting pregnant; it’s to keep her from being in terrible, debilitating pain.

Now, there are grey-er areas than that, of course. A doctor might prescribe the pill to help with acne, for example, and I think that most people would agree that that’s not a sufficient reason to use it.

You can believe to the contrary, of course, but you aren’t in accordance with Church teaching in doing so. Here’s Humanae Vitae on the subject:

15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)