Confused about Catholic-Protestant Relationship

[basilisk]

LaBailey, you are being really immature. The Church has rules, and many have pointed that out. If that’s being “mean” well then, I guess we’ll have to continue.

When you went to school, and the rules were explained to you, did you complain to the administration that they were “mean?”

The Church has rules because it is trying to guide souls to Heaven. The Church believes, with good reason, and with bibilical exegesis, that certain things are unacceptable for Christians. Also, that some things are required beliefs for Christians. That is where the “rules” come from.

If you can’t accept that the Catholic Church teaches what it does based on Christ’s commission and commands, then you should not marry a Catholic. Because he will have to follow the rules to remain a Catholic in good standing. You claim to be fine with him being Catholic, but that doesn’t seem true.

I really think marrying him would cause you both pain and regret, and end up with a home in religious warfare, and children with no religion. If neither church really matters, if neither church has the truth, then what is the point of any church? That is what they will learn from your plan.

Love is not enough to make a marriage work. Though, if this is truly your opinion of Catholics, if he is arrogant and mindless, bowing to a wafer and unbiblical… if that is really your opinion of HIM… do you even love him? How could you if you think that of him?

 

[sanctamaria17]

I am a Catholic. I made the decision on my own to become a Catholic and I try my best to live out my Christian faith. I respect people’s choices to follow their own faith and I encourage them in that. I have friends of every Christian denomination (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox), friends who are Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, whatever and I consider them all amazing people. However, I would not date or marry someone who isn’t Catholic, unless they truly didn’t care what religious tradition their child was brought up under and supported me completely in doing so.

Why? Because anyone who is intellectually honest can’t honestly bring up a child in another faith. I find it would be unfair of me to ask that of someone who is devoutly Protestant (of whatever denomination) or Jewish or whatever background. To me, dating is not about romance, though romance is nice and should be a component of a marital relationship. Dating to me is about choosing a future spouse. When it comes to a future spouse, I want someone who shares the same faith and values so that we could bring up our children as such.

You really have to think if this is the man for you. You may love him. But what about getting married and fighting over what church to marry into? What about when your babies are born and he wants them baptized as Catholics? What about the Church ban on contraception? Sure, there may be allowances for the unconvinced spouse, but that’s something spouses have to be on the same page about! What about CCD/religious ed? What about things like First Confession/Communion/Confirmation? Even if you can work through things NOW, when kids come, that’s a whole different ball game.

And we don’t want to get into a whose Church is better debate. But this is a Catholic forum and you are talking to Catholics. So please be conscious of the fact that we do believe in things like transubstantiation and that we actually do hold Biblical basis for these claims. And remember, we would give the same advice no matter what denomination your BF is. Trust me, I was in an interfaith relationship (me as a Catholic, him as an evangelical turned atheist) and faith was a reason we could no longer see each other.

 

[1ke]

1ke: I do believe what my PROTESTANT religion teaches and I am the same stubborn way and don’t want my children being raised any other way. So then I’m stuck again…

1ke: And in my opinion there is still plenty wrong with my children being raised as Catholics. Still stuck… Can’t you give me more sincere and less-biased advice? Your comments do not help me any.

You misunderstand me. I am not being “biased.” I said that if you believe what your church teaches to be true, why would you want your children to learn something you think is false? That goes for the Protestant and the Catholic. If you as a protestant think Catholicism is untrue, then why would you marry a Catholic, have children with a Catholic, and raise your children as Catholics? Or as “both”? There is no “both”. If I was Baptist I would want to raise my children Baptist. Solomon wisely observed that one cannot cut the baby in half.

This is something that I think people underestimate. In your other post you stated that the Eucharist is “just a wafer.” I explained that it is NOT. It is Jesus-- body, blood, soul, and divinity. You do not believe that. It is a central tenet of Catholicism. It either is or isn’t. No in between.

So, when you and your boyfriend marry and have children, which will it be? Jesus or a wafer. How will you explain this. When the kids are totally confused who will be “right” and who will be “wrong” in the household?

It simply doesn’t work.

1ke: That’s why I’m doing this. The ONLY reason I can see to not be with this man I love is because he’s Catholic. I’m trying to see if that single thing is so incredibly important that it will just never work. Every other aspect seems perfect. If there IS a way (and I’m trying to find this out) to get around the difficulty of a mixed-marriage, then I want to know.

I think the only way mixed marriages work is when one of the two is basically not devout in their own faith. We have several couples in our parish where the woman is Catholic and the husband is not. But, the kids are raised as Catholics and the fathers either don’t practice any religion or goes to mass with the family.

When both are devout-- true believers-- in their own faith traditions… trouble is waiting.

Of course I want it “my way.” Who doesn’t want it “their way”? But I’m still willing to take the time and effort to educate myself and make some sacrifices. Most of you brought up the fact that you don’t really know me, but for those of you who didn’t, quit making assumptions! I’ve come as far as to bring this all to the table haven’t I? Now I can continue learning and hopefully find more nice Catholics … Thanks again to all of you!

I’m sure you are not lumping me in with the “nice” Catholics and that’s Ok. I am a perfectly nice person IRL, and I am not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings.

But you are already getting the “true love conquers all” scenario from your boyfriend. You didn’t come here for that. I hope I’ve pointed out to you why I think mixed marriages of any kind are a bad idea. That includes practicing Catholics married to nominal/lukewarm/non-practicing Catholics.

Personally, I hope you continue to investigate the Catholic faith and find the beauty of it for yourself. But, not to make your boyfriend happy, or to get married, or for any other reason than because it’s true.

 

[sanctamaria17]

OK, we don’t believe incense is required, we believe it’s a symbol. Otherwise, I’d be in big trouble because as a college student, I can’t have candles or incense in my dorm

But seriously, we believe that children do not need to make an intellectual choice to belong to God, that we are all saved by His grace (which allows us to have faith and to do good works). We believe in the Sacraments as being a way for Him to manifest that (though we believe that God certainly can work outside of them, they’re more for us than for God). That’s why we’re so “gung ho” about raising them Catholic. They can make the choice when they grow up but we believe they should have their faith formed when they’re younger, so they have it to fall back on.

And our statements are mean? We’re trained rats? OUCH! That really hurts for those of us who had to make mistakes and do A LOT of soul searching in order to come to Catholicism. I certainly don’t bash anyone else’s Christianity or faith. If anything, I encourage people to follow their path to God and pray for everyone, no matter what. Just let me follow mine. Just like I would help others and be friends with others no matter their faith background. It’s just that dating and marriage are different. You have to spend the rest of your life with this person and raise a family based on SHARED values. The whole “love will keep us alive” is good for the music and movies but marriage is based more on practical love than on romance. And I wouldn’t choose a lapsed Catholic guy over a serious Protestant guy just because the “Catholic” label is important. I would set my sights on a serious Catholic guy or just not marry at all because I don’t compromise. That’s not snobbery, that’s just practical and sage advice.

 

[LaBailey]

basilisk, do not talk about me as if you know me. I don’t think I’m being really immature while I’m sitting back and reading that you’ve picked apart everything I’ve said. I did NOT say, however, that the rules themselves were mean. Don’t be putting words in my mouth. I said that the way you are going about what you’re saying is very insensitive.

The stupid rat comment was said jokingly. I love my boyfriend and his family very dearly and they are certainly not rats. So forget the rat thing.

Some of the info you’ve given me has been very helpful. But my personal relationship is just that, my PERSONAL relationship. I should not have, regret, and I’m very sorry to have dragged any of you into it. I’m not going to let strangers make me feel uneasy about my relationship when there are many examples I’ve already seen of mixed-marriages that have worked well. This is something that is between me and my boyfriend. I appreciate any and all of your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Also- There has still been no one to show me where in the bible it says for the priest or anyone else to sing what they say?

 

[1ke]

Well since reading all of your posts I have already learned a lot. I will continue to read and try to make the most of it. I would, however, like for some of you to quit trying to prove me wrong. That’s not why I’m here.

If by “prove you wrong” you mean give you bible passages supporting the Catholic position on incense, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and Papal authority-- well, you asked.

All I’m asking for is your advice on how to help this situation.

Um, no, in your original post you asked a number of questions about Catholic doctrine and made untrue statements regarding other aspects of Catholic teaching and practice.

I don’t care about your comments that are only making things worse.

It seems that by “making it worse” you mean “telling me things I don’t want to hear.”

All that your harsh comments are doing is reinforcing my beliefs about some Catholics being poor “Christians.” (Your statements are so mean.) Shouldn’t you rather be trying to draw me in and proving to me how wonderful Catholicism is? All you’re doing is just pushing me away. Anyway, thanks (to most of you) for all of your advice.

harsh = not what I want to hear

 

[LaBailey]

1ke, you have truly shown me no compassion and I would much rather hear what I “don’t want to hear” from someone else who has been much more understanding of my situation and lack of knowledge in this department. I’m still learning. There’s no need for you to pick me apart. I’d think you’d want to show me what a wonderful Christian you are instead of showing me what a bully you can be.

 

[sanctamaria17]

LaBailey, you do have a point. We are strangers. But here’s something. Many of these people aren’t blind Catholics. I’ve read a number of their stories and a lot of them had to do a lot of soul searching. Many of them are married. Many have children. They KNOW how hard it is, especially those who did have mixed marriages, with the same intentions as you have right now.

Also, this is a Catholic forum. Expect Catholic responses. As for the priest singing, well, in Judaism (which our religion is based off of), it is a tradition to chant prayers. And who said it was sinful to sing to praise God.

If you have serious questions about Catholicism, I’d like to direct you to Ask an Apologist on the forums. They can help you and direct you to far more resources than I can.

As for mixed marriages, I have this question for you: Are these couples equally serious in their faiths? Do they agree? Is one not so serious and just allows the other spouse to raise their children in the faith?

And if you really believe in your faith, why would you want your kids raised in something else? Or in “both”? Wouldn’t you be fighting the urge to say, “No, this is how it is”?

You have to pray about this, you have to do soul searching and maybe some studying about Catholicism wouldn’t hurt either. And ultimately, you have to decide whether you want to marry this man or not.

 

[1ke]

Also- There has still been no one to show me where in the bible it says for the priest or anyone else to sing what they say?

Can you show us where in the bible it tells priests **not **to sing or chant?

Here is where the bible instructs us that priests do chant in worship:

1 Chronicles 15:

14 Accordingly, the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD, the God of Israel.

15 The Levites bore the ark of God on their shoulders with poles, as Moses had ordained according to the word of the LORD.

16 David commanded the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their brethren as chanters, to play on musical instruments, harps, lyres, and cymbals, to make a loud sound of rejoicing.

17 Therefore the Levites appointed Heman, son of Joel, and, among his brethren, Asaph, son of Berechiah; and among the sons of Merari, their brethren, Ethan, son of Kushaiah;

18 and, together with these, their brethren of the second rank: the gatekeepers Zechariah, Uzziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom, and Jeiel.

19 The chanters, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, sounded brass cymbals.

20 Zechariah, Uzziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Maaseiah, and Benaiah played on harps set to “Alamoth.”

21 But Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom, and Jeiel led the chant on lyres set to “the eighth.”

22 Chenaniah was the chief of the Levites in the chanting; he directed the chanting, for he was skillful.

David wrote the psalms, which are sung prayers to this day in the Jewish faith. That is why we sing them in Mass.

 

[1ke]

There’s no need for you to pick me apart. I’d think you’d want to show me what a wonderful Christian you are instead of showing me what a bully you can be.

I don’t understand what you think is picking you apart.

You asked a LOT of questions in your first post. I answered them honestly even though you came on here with multiple insults to Catholics. The things you said were offensive. And, I answered each of them. I showed you in the bible where offering prayers with incense was located. I showed you where in the bible we get the basis of papal authority. I have now shown you in the bible where Catholics get chant in worship. Another poster showed you where in the bible Jesus talks about the Real Presence.

I answered your questions about mixed marriage. To me it seems an impass.

What is it you are looking for if not people’s opinions on mixed marriages? Did you want everyone to tell you it was a great idea and would all work out “somehow”?

What, exactly, is it that you want from us?

 

[NonCatholic]

In addition to the other book suggestions, I will suggest “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”. Heck…I suggest we all read it; it will make you cry and appreciate Christ in ways no other book can; except the Bible. For me, it is one of those books that I can only take a little at a time because it is so heart-breaking.:coffeeread:

Here is a link for the book:
christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=0786645&kw=foxes_book_of_martyrs&event=PPCSRC&p=1018818&cm_mmc=Google--Academic--general-_-foxes%20book%20of%20martyrs&gclid=CIDIjfTT_ZcCFQRhswodYlU-Dw

 

[1ke]

In addition to the other book suggestions, I will suggest “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”. Heck…I suggest we all read it; it will make you cry and appreciate Christ in ways no other book; except the Bible can. For me, it is one of those books that I can only take a little at a time because it is so heart-breaking.:coffeeread:

Except for the part where Fox’s book of martyrs is made up anti-Catholic tripe.

 

[NonCatholic]

Except for the part where Fox’s book of martyrs is made up anti-Catholic tripe.

I assume you have read it? I doubt it. It is factual, but what is truth?

 

[1ke]

I assume you have read it? I doubt it. It is factual, but what is truth?

I have read a wide variety of things. Foxes, the book of Mormon, Jack Chick tracts.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Also- There has still been no one to show me where in the bible it says for the priest or anyone else to sing what they say?

Here are a few Bible passages that refer to singing: Ephesians 5:19, Col 3:16, James 5:13, Matt 26:30, Rev 15:3, plus there are others. The book of Psalms is something of a Bible song book, (note that James wrote to “sing psalms”).

We don’t have to sing the prayers at Mass–in fact, at most weekday Masses the prayers are not sung. But singing prayers and praises to God is certainly a Biblical thing to do. I assumed from your other posts your church also sings, (and if your church really sings in four part harmony it probably sounds quite lovely.)

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

OP- You asked us, after insulting us. Sorry you didn’t get the answer you wanted.

But you’ve been told what marrying a Catholic would be like. If you don’t want to believe it, fine. But please- don’t come in here, insult us, question our integrity, and then tell us you don’t like the answer. Whatever did you expect? We don’t have to prove anything to you. We have given you our best. You don’t seem to appreciate it unless we placate you.

The Catholic Church is not run soley by the Bible. Happy? But we still compiled the Bible. And we still have our rules.

You might be able to get your fiance to convert to your religion. It would be sad if he did that, but he is a grown man capable of free will.

If he does not, though, your stomping your digital feet and carrying on like we have somehow hurt you by following the rules of our Church, the Church we Catholics believe to be the One, True Church, and explaining those rules- that is NOT going to change the way things work in the Church.

Truly- If you cannot get him to convert, and I hope you can’t, and you cannot live with the rules of the Catholic Church the way they are, then you need to break off your relationship with this man, and find somebody more suited to your lifestyle and religious beliefs.

 

[KristinM]

Also- There has still been no one to show me where in the bible it says for the priest or anyone else to sing what they say?

Simple: tradition

The books of the Bible as we know it today were decided during the early 300s AD, (Protestant Bibles are younger still, Martin Luther took seven books out in the 1500’s, that’ a different post). Monks didn’t start copying them until the late 300s. My dates may be a lttle off, but the point is:

For 300 hundred years the Catholic Church had to operate without the Bible, so a lot of traditions emerged. But why singing? Because the Jews sang. Also, think about songs you hear on the radio. The tune helps you learn the words. Which really helped believers learn the words since, for most of the past 2000 years the words weren’t printed. And today, it helps the congregation have an active role in the mass. Though my Baptist husband does a better job responding than my Catholic children, go figure.

This link gives a “Catholic Church” answer:
newadvent.org/cathen/04241a.htm

But I end by quoting a song written by a Protestan minister:
No storm can shake my inmost calm
while to that Rock I’m clinging.
Since love is Lord of heaven and earth,
how can I keep from singing?

BTW: Not all churches sing at all masses.

 

[1ke]

Gotta go teach some middle schoolers about Jesus now… have a nice evening.

 

[LaBailey]

But I end by quoting a song written by a Protestan minister:
No storm can shake my inmost calm
while to that Rock I’m clinging.
Since love is Lord of heaven and earth,
how can I keep from singing?

Thanks, you’re sweet. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I wish more of the posters would be as sincere as some of the others.

 

[KristinM]

This post will not give you any answers to your original question. I apologize in advance if this offends you. I just need to get it off my chest…

The stupid rat comment was said jokingly. I love my boyfriend and his family very dearly and they are certainly not rats. So forget the rat thing.

I don’t care what you call us. I can see the jest. If we were trained like rats then the order of service would not have in bold print when we are to stand, sit, kneel. And the rat thing doesn’t come close to being told by others I’m going to hell because I’m Catholic.

My point, I feel that some on this board would have preferred an “I apologize for calling you rats” rather than “So forget the rat thing”