Confused about Gen 1:26

  • Thread starter Thread starter jojojojo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jojojojo

Guest
GEN 1:26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

When it says ‘Let us’ who or what does the ‘us’ refer to?

Jo
 
40.png
jojojojo:
When it says ‘Let us’ who or what does the ‘us’ refer to?
Click to expand...
The word used for “God” in this section is “elohim,” which is plural in form but used as a singular to refer to the One True God. Rabbinic commentators have likened it to the royal we. Christian commentators note that it is one early clue pointing toward God’s Triune nature.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Only God alone can create, and this is made clear in Genesis 1:1-4 that there is only one God, one Creator.

On the other hand, the “us” referred to in Gen. 1:26 indicates that one Person is talking to another Person/s, and “let us create…” indicates that the “us” are co-creators. Hence, since only God can create, then we are left with the conclusion that the “us” refers to the Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity, each of whom is co-equal and co-eternal with the other.

Gerry 🙂
 
40.png
mlchance:
The word used for “God” in this section is “elohim,” which is plural in form but used as a singular to refer to the One True God. Rabbinic commentators have likened it to the royal we. Christian commentators note that it is one early clue pointing toward God’s Triune nature.

– Mark L. Chance.
Click to expand...
great post, you are exactly correct. royalty often refers to itself in the first person plural, and since He is the King of Kings… 🙂 . i also think it could be God giving us an early hint and His triune nature but the writer (moses) probably would have interpreted it as royalty addressing itself.
 
Those are the Holy Trinity speaking to each other since only God is the Creator. That verse in Genesis bolsters our belief about the Trinity-3 Persons, One God.

Pio
 
Hi all!

Mlchance, you posted:
Rabbinic commentators have likened it to the royal we.
Click to expand...
Correct. Actually, I’ve heard 3 explanations.

First, there is the Majesticatus Pluralis (i.e. the “Royal We”).

Our Sages also teach that by saying “Let us…” God was speaking to/consulting the angelic host (see I Kings 22:20-23, Isaiah 6:8, note the use of “us”, Job 1:6-12). God certainly does not need the angels’ help or advice but He speaks to them out of courtesy and modesty. (Our Sages deduce from this that a great person should always act humbly and consult those lower than him/her.) One of our Sages says that God thus “consulted” the angels at this stage because they were jealous of man, that man and not they would be the pinnacle of creation.

Our Sages offer another explanation. They note that in 1:11, God said, “Let the earth put forth grass…” and in 1:24, He said “Let the earth bring forth the living creature…” Thus, in 1:26, our Sages suggest that God was speaking to the earth when He said, “Let us make man…” In effect, He said to the earth: Let us be partners in making man. I will provide the soul and you will provide the body. When the man dies, we will each reclaim our respective parts. (See Ecclesiastes 12:7, “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns unto God who gave it.”) (Note: Our Sages are offering homilies & parables here, the value of which is in the ideas that they teach.)

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
40.png
stillsmallvoice:
Our Sages also teach that by saying “Let us…” God was speaking to/consulting the angelic host (see I Kings 22:20-23, Isaiah 6:8, note the use of “us”, Job 1:6-12). God certainly does not need the angels’ help or advice but He speaks to them out of courtesy and modesty. (Our Sages deduce from this that a great person should always act humbly and consult those lower than him/her.) One of our Sages says that God thus “consulted” the angels at this stage because they were jealous of man, that man and not they would be the pinnacle of creation.
Click to expand...
What if the angels said no! Would that mean God’s plan can be “vetoed” by lower beings?

The term “consult” implies that the one who “consults” is tacitly admitting that His knowledge and wisdom is imperfect, and needs the opinion/s of another being/s, who are just His creations. This simply goes against God’s omniscience.

Another problem with this explanation is that it would give the impression that man was created in the image of both God and angels, and that angels can in fact co-create, when as God, being essentially omnipotent, He doesn’t need the assistance of another, especially of lower beings. How then can man be the image of both?

Gerry 🙂
 
Quote by RobedwitheLight:
…This simply goes against God’s omniscience.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Gerry; it also goes against the Word of God.
Nowhere in Genesis Creation does it mention angels. In fact it says explicitly how God created everything. He simply spoke it into existence!
And God SAID, “Let there be light…and there was light”.

And God** SAID**, " Let there be firmament…and it was so" .!!

As the psalmist has said concerning creation, …" He commanded and it stood fast".

Faithful One
 
Quote by RobedWithLight:
…This simply goes against God’s omniscience.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Gerry; it also goes against the Word of God.
Nowhere in Genesis Creation does it mention angels. In fact it says explicitly how God created everything. He simply spoke it into existence!
And God SAID, “Let there be light…and there was light”.

And God** SAID**, " Let there be firmament…and it was so" .!!

As the psalmist has said concerning creation, …
" BY the Word of the Lord were the heavens created and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth,… for He SPAKE and it was done; He commanded and it stood fast".

However, it appears God took a little more time with man in that he 'formed’ him from the dust of the earth.

Faithful One
 
Well it could also be God’s way of narrating the story to Moses, inspiring Moses to write and possibly inspiring the same images in Moses as if Moses was right alongside Him watching it happen. Through such inspiration Moses then wrote the Book of Genesis.

But yes it could also be hinting at the Trinity. And when Angels were created is rather unknown, but I rather prefer to think they were created first, the heavens and then the earth. Perhaps the Angels might have also helped with the Creation, but not because God needed help, rather He gave them some power, and they did as He commanded, the work might get done faster that way 😃 . Doing so might create a sort of bond between the angels and creation. Sort of like an artist who is proud of his work, but the tools and instruction were supplied to him from someone else. Though God would have personally made man, since angels might not be able to create something like themselves, since each is in the image of God, their power is limited. This might also explain why Satan hates the idea that something he (presumably) helped make is instead going to belong to another created thing that did nothing to help and so rebelled and is on a mission to show God how unworthy man is to deserve all this by turning us away from God in order to disobey His rules and so lead to the escalating ruin of God’s created order. Satan knows he can’t win against God in supremacy, but perhaps he wants to prove that the majority of mankind is completely unworthy of anything, whether Satan wins that argument is rather up to us. Sin can simply thus be defined as something that works against the way created things were programmed to work and anything that is destructive to creation as a whole. God’s laws are there for our protection and welbeing!
 
Hi all!

Gerry, you posted:
What if the angels said no! Would that mean God’s plan can be “vetoed” by lower beings?
The term “consult” implies that the one who “consults” is tacitly admitting that His knowledge and wisdom is imperfect, and needs the opinion/s of another being/s, who are just His creations. This simply goes against God’s omniscience.
Click to expand...
I think you’ve misunderstood me. I did say that, “God certainly does not need the angels’ help or advice but He speaks to them out of courtesy and modesty.” No statement against God’s omniscience is either meant or implied.
Another problem with this explanation is that it would give the impression that man was created in the image of both God **and **angels,
Click to expand...
How ya figger?

The angels are also created in His image, i.e. they are sentient & capable of rational thought.

Faithful One, you posted:
As the psalmist has said concerning creation, …
" BY the Word of the Lord…
Click to expand...
Grammatically speaking, why use the uppercase “W”? The (original) Hebrew has no upper or lower case letters.

jdnation, you posted:
God’s laws are there for our protection and welbeing!
Click to expand...
I couldn’t agree more!

Be well!

ssv :sleep: (it’s after 22:00 here, g’night!)
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the** W**ord was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3).

Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stetcheth forth the heavens ALONE; That spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF…" (Isa.44:24)
For those who want to know the truth that ought to settle the matter.

Faithful One
 
Faithful One:
Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stetcheth forth the heavens ALONE; That spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF…" (Isa.44:24)

For those who want to know the truth that ought to settle the matter.

Faithful One
Click to expand...
Those passages alone never says that He “consulted” any created beings out of “modesty”. While Gen. 1:26 suggests the existence of Triune-ness of God, Isa. 44:24 suggests His oneness. The best explanation is still the Trinitarian formula: Three Divine Persons in One God!

Gerry 🙂
 
Hi all!

Lessee…

Faithful One, John is no authority for me since it is not scripture for us.

FO & Robed With Light, I am well aware of Isaiah 44 & do not believe it to be contradictory in any way to what I’ve posted thus far.

See jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq134.html.

Hmm, methinks that we’ll have to (amicably, I hope!) file this one under “Agree-to-disagree.” I certainly acknowledge & respect your views even if I do not share them.

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
'What if the angels said no! Would that mean God’s plan can be “vetoed” by lower beings? ’

errr… no. i remember hundreds of times mom said ‘let’s go clean our rooms, ok?’ and it was most certainly NOT open to veto. ‘let’s’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘is it ok if we…’. it CAN mean ‘we are going to…whether you want to or not.’

so there’s no losing of God’s omniscience if He’s speaking to angels.

but i don’t think He is. i think He’s talking to the other members of Himself - the trinity. it COULD, of course, be all THREE theories in one. maybe He was speaking to Jesus and the HS, the angels, and the earth. not out of the question.

faithful one posted: ‘For those who want to know the truth that ought to settle the matter.’
please don’t presume that people who disagree with you don’t want to know the truth. remember to post in charity - and remember to learn from those who disagree with you.
 
Just one final point.

If God was indeed “consulting” with angels in Genesis 1:26 out of a sense of profound modesty and humility, then, if we are to be consistent, why is it that there was no mention of God “consulting” Adam when God formed Eve out of Adam’s rib (Gen. 2:21-22)?

Is this “sense” of modesty only for angels, not for men, if we are to believe the opinion that Gen. 1:26 was an act of consultation with angels, rather than between co-equal Divine Persons?

Thus we are led to only one reasonable conclusion. Genesis 1:26 tends to support Trinitarianism far more than not.

Peace

Gerry 🙂
 
that’s an argument from silence, though. we don’t know He DIDN’T consult with adam first, just because it isn’t mentioned.

yes, the trinitarian answer seems best, but i don’t think it necessarily rules out the others.
 
Hello and God Bless All

Lets not forget When The Lord Created Adam he was without Sin and Holy like God and the Angels on the side of the lord ,different only by becoming man .It was Adam’s Sin that changed all ,and necessary for all man to have choice ,for Christ to be Born and Gods Grace to be appreciated and sought by man so he would choose good over the others who chose evil ( Satan and his bunch).
Us is not so hard to understand Who can know the way and work of God except the son he sent for us John3-16.

Peace be with you all
:love:
 
Actually the angels may not have been there yet when God was creating man. It says that Satan was in the garden after the fall so that would mean the garden would have had to have been created before the fall. Angels were probably created during the 6 day’s of creation along with everything else and the fall happened sometime during the first hundred years of Adam and Eve’s lives. God couldn’t have asked them for help because they weren’t there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top