Confused about psalm 22 (23)

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The Latin Vulgate generally follows the Greek Septuagint. In this case, where the Hebrew has “The LORD is my shepherd,” the Greek Septuagint has “The Lord tends me.” The implication is that the Lord tends me similar to how a good shepherd tends his flock. In place of the phrase “tends me,” other possible translations of the Greek include: takes care of me, guides me, shepherds me, governs me, rules me, etc.

The same Greek verb is used in the New Testament, in John 21:16, when Jesus said to Peter, “Tend my sheep,” and, in 1 Peter 5:2, when Peter said to church elders, “Tend the flock of God that is in your charge…”
 
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Todd_Easton said:
The Latin Vulgate generally follows the Greek Septuagint. In this case, where the Hebrew has “The LORD is my shepherd,” the Greek Septuagint has “The Lord tends me.” The implication is that the Lord tends me similar to how a good shepherd tends his flock. In place of the phrase “tends me,” other possible translations of the Greek include: takes care of me, guides me, shepherds me, governs me, rules me, etc.

The same Greek verb is used in the New Testament, in John 21:16, when Jesus said to Peter, “Tend my sheep,” and, in 1 Peter 5:2, when Peter said to church elders, “Tend the flock of God that is in your charge
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I remember - as a kid - getting very confused by the words: ‘I shall not want.’ Thinking: 'Why would I not want Him?..‘of course I would!!!’. Not realising that He, as my Shepherd, would provide for my needs. The true meaning of those words.
 
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Instead of trusting in translations, one should go to the original Hebrew, which has “JHWH ro’iy”, “The LORD – my shepherd”.

D
 
Todd_Easton said:
In this case, where the Hebrew has “The LORD is my shepherd,” the Greek Septuagint has “The Lord tends me.”
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Actually, the Greek word for “tend” here is ποιμαίνω (‘poimaino’). It comes from the word ποιμήν (‘poimén’), which means “shepherd.” So, it really does mean “the Lord shepherds me”, even in the Greek. 😉
 
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Well most people neither know Hebrew, nor have access to the text. Nothing wrong with the OP’s question at all, he/she had a question, and they posted it, and a quick reply gave them the answer. That’s why it’s called Catholic Answers.
 
tafan2 said:
Well most people neither know Hebrew, nor have access to the text. Nothing wrong with the OP’s question at all, he/she had a question, and they posted it, and a quick reply gave them the answer. That’s why it’s called Catholic Answers.
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Anyone with a computer that can access CAF can also access an interlinear Hebrew-English Bible. Google is our friend.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/23.htm

D
 
DaveBj said:
Anyone with a computer that can access CAF can also access an interlinear Hebrew-English Bible. Google is our friend.
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Although this is true, it’s not the case that one can do effective translation work with a dictionary and zero knowledge of the source language. 😉
tafan2 said:
So let’s just all quit using the forum.
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You know, there are times when I think exactly the same thing… 🤣
 
Gorgias said:
Although this is true, it’s not the case that one can do effective translation work with a dictionary and zero knowledge of the source language.
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On the interlinear that I accessed, the basic translation work is already done. There is also a complete grammatical analysis of each Hebrew word.

D
 
DaveBj said:
On the interlinear that I accessed, the basic translation work is already done. There is also a complete grammatical analysis of each Hebrew word.
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I’m familiar with the site. I access it often. It’s still no substitute for real knowledge of the language. And, to my experience, that knowledge of the language is critical in order to be able to translate well and accurately. 🤷‍♂️
 
In this case we’re not looking to do a professional-level translation; we’re looking to see if JHVH is associated with a verb “to tend”, or if it is associated with a noun that means “shepherd”. This isn’t doctoral-level linguistics, and it doesn’t need to be treated as such. The OP’s question concerned the word “shepherd”, and my answer showed where that word came from.

D
 
DaveBj said:
The OP’s question concerned the word “shepherd”, and my answer showed where that word came from.
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Actually, the OP’s question wondered why the Latin was deficient. Todd responded that it was the Greek that was deficient. A careful examination of the Greek shows that it wasn’t. 😉
 
The psalter is not Jerome. It predates Jerome. It is a singing translation, older than Jerome and made for use at Mass or by early Christians of Rome, at home. It uses closer.to the Septuagint and other older versions of the Bible.

You could just as easily complain that the Greek and English translations do not carry the kingly connotations of shepherd, or the divine connotations of shepherd, which the word has in most Middle Eastern ancient languages and in Egyptian literature too.

Translations are part of Christian religion. They do not have to be perfect to be sufficient for the purpose.

The verb “regere” does not mean “tend”. It means guide, direct, steer, manage. There is a secondary meaning: to lead, command. (And that is where rex, king, comes from.) But the chief meaning is about physically guiding someone or something, having them walk in a certain path at a certain pace. It comes into Latin poetry about shepherds, other livestock, etc.

The Latin speaker hears, “The Lord steers me physically with his shepherd’s crook.” And there is a rulership connotation. It is a better translation than the Greek. We just do not read (or sing) Latin well enough.

(Ducere is another big word in Latin for leading or guiding, but this is less good for a shepherd in this specific context.)
 
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DaveBj said:
The OP’s question concerned the word “shepherd”, and my answer showed where that word came from.
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Along with the suggestion that the OP should be able to go to the original Hebrew instead of asking a question on the forum.
 
This is the Hebrew
מִזְמֹ֥ור לְדָוִ֑ד יְהוָ֥ה רֹ֝עִ֗י לֹ֣א אֶחְסָֽר׃

and this is how it has been translated
מִזְמֹ֥ור A Psalm
לְדָוִ֑ד Of David (King David)
יְהוָ֥ה YHWH (is) ( note, a name not vocalised as YHWH, instead my LORD or Hashem)
רֹ֝עִ֗י my Shepherd
לֹ֣א not
אֶחְסָֽר׃ I shall want.

https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/23-1.htm

יהוה transliterates to yhvh YHWH . This is the Tetragrammaton, the four letter Biblical name for the God of Israel, His divine name.
The letter ‘yod’ transliterates as y, even though with many words if found as the first consonant of the first word of the sentence, it will sound J.
The Tetragrammaton never sound transliterates yod as J.

The word ‘my shepherd’ comes after the proper noun and is in construct chain. The Bible hub, quite rightly states ‘my shepherd’ is a Qal Perfect verb. Is it functioning as an adjective or a verb?
 
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We have access to Biblical Hebrew text through the BibleHub. We should really understand a little of what we are reading in it though. Or not be afraid to ask. It is such a wonderful resource. Especially for the student.
 
Jerome had the Hebrew, but he translated it as “Dominus pascit me,” which would be “The Lord pastures me”, or “the Lord feeds me.”

The literal would be “Dominus pastor meus”, but excessive hissing stinks for singing and recitation. So that was avoided on purpose, although less by Jerome.
 
Was it Jerome’s translation of Moses shining face as newly acquired horns that led to the Michaelangelo of Moses with horns and various artwork of that era depicting Moses similarity. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Mintaka said:
The Latin speaker hears, “The Lord steers me physically with his shepherd’s crook.” And there is a rulership connotation. It is a better translation than the Greek. We just do not read (or sing) Latin well enough.
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Apparently, we don’t read Greek well enough, either.

The Greek of the Septuagint reads, “κύριος ποιμαίνει με καὶ οὐδέν με ὑστερήσει.”

A literal translation would give, “[The] Lord shepherds me and nothing me will lack.”

The Latin literally replaces the word “shepherds” with “leads”. Not sure how that makes the Latin “better” than the Greek in translating what we see in the Hebrew… 🤔
 
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