Confused about Reconciliation

[Lost_Sheep]

In his recent general audience, Pope Francis quoted Benedict XVI saying:

As regards these people [Catholics who have divorced and remarried] – as you have said – the Church loves them, but it is important they should see and feel this love. I see here a great task for a parish, a Catholic community, to do whatever is possible to help them to feel loved and accepted, to feel that they are not “excluded” even though they cannot receive absolution or the Eucharist; they should see that, in this state too, they are fully a part of the Church. Perhaps, even if it is not possible to receive absolution in Confession, they can nevertheless have ongoing contact with a priest, with a spiritual guide. This is very important, so that they see that they are accompanied and guided. Then it is also very important that they truly realize they are participating in the Eucharist if they enter into a real communion with the Body of Christ. Even without “corporal” reception of the sacrament, they can be spiritually united to Christ in his Body.

Emphasis mine.

Now, the divorced and remarried are supposedly living in a state of mortal sin. And I’ve always understood it that if a person dies in the state of mortal sin the it is pretty much a done deal that their soul goes to Hell. Yet such people are still to be considered to be part of the church.

How can such people be saved? Is their only option to civilly divorce their new spouse (and possibly break up a new family) in order to be able to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation again?

 

[AKDee]

Perhaps by living as brother and sister?

 

[Casilda]

It’s not just the divorced and remarried, a cradle Catholic who marries outside of the church cannot receive absolution. While awaiting for my status to be determined (cradle baptized Catholic, received first communion, never confirmed, married outside the church with no dispensation) I could not not receive communion, I could not go to confession. I did consider leaving my husband, the source of my mortal sin, to be able to come back into communion.

Got it fixed eventually.

 

[pianistclare]

Hi Lost.
It’s because with the sacrament of Reconciliation, a major component is the desire to never commit the same sin again. Married people certainly will, or at least intend to.
So they would have to go to confession every single week in order to receive on Sunday(or whenever they planned to) and that shows a pattern of not amending their lives. Eventually, the priest would see this and withhold absolution, which is indeed very hurtful. This is why the church offers the annulment process to determine if this can be remedied and the people in question can return to the sacraments.
The process in the future is likely going to be able to be completed more efficiently. Some worry that they will rubber stamp annulments, but I don’t buy into that. I think Pope Francis really understands how people suffer over this…how many people have walked away feeling shame because they can’t receive (even though the Church does not require us to receive communion every Sunday). You know how it is…if something is not available to you, but to everyone else, people feel awkward. I believe he is going to make an effort to make those Tribunals run more efficiently, so people don’t have to wait for years on end for an answer.
It may not sound like a great answer, but there’s one possibility for a good resolution.
Get a prior marriage looked at, and seek the available remedy. If a person’s soul is in need of reconciliation, they should seek the remedy, not hide or run away, and WE the church and people who welcome people into the Church should pray for them, help them in any way we can, and walk the path with them.
This is also another big component of what Pope Francis says. Let’s be kind to one another. We can’t possibly know what people go through or have gone through. But we can be the hands and feet of Christ, and love them in our communities.

 

[TK421]

If you confess your sin in Reconciliation and resolve to sin no more, you will be absolved and can receive Eucharist.

You can’t do this if you want to subscribe to an alternate reality of what the Church teaches on marriage, or anything else. Even if you did go to a priest for Confession, and the priest - not knowing any better - gave Absolution, if you underwent Reconciliation without any intention to amend your life, then you’ve committed sacrilege against the Sacrament of Confession, and then you would receive Eucharist and commit sacrilege again.

The sanctity of marriage is perhaps the most difficult issue the Church will ever have to tackle in her history on Earth, which wouldn’t be surprising, since it is the human reflection of the Trinity itself and by far the most common vocation. It was a nightmarish issue when Jesus was a rabbi, and it’s still a nightmarish issue today. The entire Anglican communion - an entire European kingdom severed from the Church - stems from the issue of the sanctity of marriage.

There are millions of people out there, who aren’t married yet, and maybe never will marry, that honor God with their body in continence. The Church is basically asking the same thing from a divorced and remarried person, at the very least until they settle things with their past through the proper ecclesial channels.

 

[Bookcat]

Now, the divorced and remarried are supposedly living in a state of mortal sin. And I’ve always understood it that if a person dies in the state of mortal sin the it is pretty much a done deal that their soul goes to Hell. Yet such people are still to be considered to be part of the church.

How can such people be saved? Is their only option to civilly divorce their new spouse (and possibly break up a new family) in order to be able to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation again?

Catechism:

1648 It can seem difficult, even impossible, to bind oneself for life to another human being. This makes it all the more important to proclaim the Good News that God loves us with a definitive and irrevocable love, that married couples share in this love, that it supports and sustains them, and that by their own faithfulness they can be witnesses to God’s faithful love. Spouses who with God’s grace give this witness, often in very difficult conditions, deserve the gratitude and support of the ecclesial community.158

1649 Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble.159

1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:

They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace.161

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#V

Read the whole there.

I think one can say that hope is that if they are not able to repent and be returned to the Sacraments that by the time they reach the end of their journey on earth they will be able to be reconciled to God…

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Funny thing is if I can’t confess to living in sin because I was divorced and unable to qualify for annulment for some technical reason, unless I intend to live as “brother and sister” – then how come I can confess to getting angry and going off about something, or masturbating, or other things I can make money betting I will do again within the next week, and that’s OK?

I guess it’s ok to say, “I’m sorry and I’ll try never to do it again” and know within 99% predictability it’ll happen again within a few days, but not “I’m sorry I’m in this situation but I intend to continue to having relationship with my wife.”

Seems like the second one is more honest, but it is never acceptable.

 

[Bookcat]

Funny thing is if I can’t confess to living in sin because I was divorced and unable to qualify for annulment for some technical reason, unless I intend to live as “brother and sister” – then how come I can confess to getting angry and going off about something, or masturbating, or other things I can make money betting I will do again within the next week, and that’s OK?

I guess it’s ok to say, “I’m sorry and I’ll try never to do it again” and know within 99% predictability it’ll happen again within a few days, but not “I’m sorry I’m in this situation but I intend to continue to having relationship with my wife.”

Seems like the second one is more honest, but it is never acceptable.

Because one must* repent* of all mortal sins (adultery, masturbation, grave anger, serious acts of injustice etc) and thus resolve not to commit mortal sins and one is be amended to avoid the near occasions of such.

The resolution then and there in the Sacrament is not a prediction of if one will not fall ever again. One may even know that is very likely that one will fall. But the resolution is not to fall. There is the complete rejection of mortal sin.

If one does not renounce the grave sins one is not repenting and thus cannot be absolved. Be it grave injustice or adultery or masturbation etc.

To continue say possession of pornography, to intend to continue the same acts of injustice to make money, to intend to continue committing adultery, to continue in ones job as a hit man for the mob…etc is not repenting. And the confession is invalid.

One can repent and know ones weakness. Resolving to avoid mortal sin and the near occasion - but know that one is weak and one may fall or even likely to fall. That is very different. One is repenting - turning ones back to the sin and ones face to God. Completely. I renounce mortal sin (I renounce the devil and all his works as the baptismal promises have had it) and I turn to Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd who can give me the grace to avoid sin and who gives me true life.

The honest right response would be *“repent and believe the Gospel” *to really repent. And honesty admit too that one is weak and may fall again in the future though you resolve here and now not to and take all the necessary actions to remove the near occasion. One can seek advice too in doing this. Living out ones sincere confession and repentance. Living now in the grace and life of Christ.

 

[christofirst]

Perhaps it is also important now to reemphasize the idea and value of making a spiritual communion when we are not able to receive our Lord in Holy Eucharist for whatever reason.

dolr.org/article/those-unable-receive-eucharist-can-have-spiritual-communion

“The opportunities for receiving spiritual communion are limitless, but particular circumstances make it appealing in our time. Today there are many Catholics who may not be able to receive Communion because of a marriage not recognized by the Church. Often they are in the process of getting their marital status rectified, but until that is done, they cannot participate. But they are not prohibited from receiving Communion spiritually and receiving strength from the grace of the sacrament during the waiting period which is often painful.”

The idea behind spiritual communion and the message of Pope Francis is not to exclude those of us who desire full communion with God and the Church, but are not presently able. It takes into account the complicated situations we get ourselves into, acknowledging that the process of conversion and reconciliation often takes more time than we might like.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Because one must* repent* of all mortal sins (adultery, masturbation, grave anger, serious acts of injustice etc) and thus resolve not to commit mortal sins and one is be amended to avoid the near occasions of such.

The resolution then and there in the Sacrament is not a prediction of if one will not fall ever again. One may even know that is very likely that one will fall. But the resolution is not to fall. There is the complete rejection of mortal sin.

Right. I can see that.

If one does not renounce the grave sins one is not repenting and thus cannot be absolved. Be it grave injustice or adultery or masturbation etc.

I’m thinking like if I’m going in it, “yes I’m sorry and yes I wish I could stop by honestly the last five times I confessed I was back into it within a week and I have done nothing tangible except regret doing it – after doing it.”

So this is a difficult topic for me, because I don’t do well at willfully “fighting” myself over things. I kind of have to quit wanting to do it, through whatever means. If I want to do it but just can’t or am forcing myself not to, I may not commit the act itself but in this sort of “fast” it still may be completely distracting.

To continue say possession of pornography, to intend to continue the same acts of injustice to make money, to intend to continue committing adultery, to continue in ones job as a hit man for the mob…etc is not repenting. And the confession is invalid.

One can repent and know ones weakness. Resolving to avoid mortal sin and the near occasion - but know that one is weak and one may fall or even likely to fall. That is very different. One is repenting - turning ones back to the sin and ones face to God. Completely. I renounce mortal sin (I renounce the devil and all his works as the baptismal promises have had it) and I turn to Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd who can give me the grace to avoid sin and who gives me true life.

The honest right response would be *“repent and believe the Gospel” *to really repent. And honesty admit too that one is weak and may fall again in the future though you resolve here and now not to and take all the necessary actions to remove the near occasion. One can seek advice too in doing this. Living out ones sincere confession and repentance. Living now in the grace and life of Christ.

So basically, even if you’ve failed the last 77 times, even if you are weak, if you are sincerely sorry go ahead. Who knows what the Spirit has for the future, so without some omniscience going on, I can’t say whether this behavior is “acceptable” to the Church or God? Therefore I should not concern myself?

I extended it a bit, but is that what you are trying to tell me, pretty much? If so, then thank you because I think I’ve got it.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m thinking like if I’m going in it, “yes I’m sorry and yes I wish I could stop by honestly the last five times I confessed I was back into it within a week and I have done nothing tangible except regret doing it – after doing it.”

We one is to avoid the near occasions- so that can be an example of something “tangible” that one ought to do.

One though yes needs to resolve not to commit mortal sin. This is a choice of the will. Here and now as one is going to confession.

So this is a difficult topic for me, because I don’t do well at willfully “fighting” myself over things. I kind of have to quit wanting to do it, through whatever means. If I want to do it but just can’t or am forcing myself not to, I may not commit the act itself but in this sort of “fast” it still may be completely distracting.

It is not about if you actually in fact do avoid it for the rest of your life - but the “resolution” not to fall into mortal sin. I reject mortal sin. Period.

One may fear that one will fall again despite your rejection of it and avoiding the near occasions - but one still rejects mortal sin. Sincerely resolves not to commit mortal sin.

It may seem like a fast cause one rejects the mortal sin and does well for a while but then falls again. But it is not “fasting” from mortal sin but the renouncing of mortal sin. That is indeed part of the very meaning of our baptismal promises.

So basically, even if you’ve failed the last 77 times, even if you are weak, if you are sincerely sorry go ahead.

Yes even if one has failed 77 times - and even if one knows one is weak and likely will fall again 77 times - one can yes repent. Sincerely repent - resolving not to commit mortal sin and to follow Jesus. Here and now as one is going to confession one can yes truly repent and reject mortal sin (I will not commit mortal sin - I reject it and believe in you Lord) and intend to avoid the actual near occasions of such. Turn away from sin and to Jesus.

Who knows what the Spirit has for the future, so without some omniscience going on, I can’t say whether this behavior is “acceptable” to the Church or God? Therefore I should not concern myself?

We must in the words of Paul - “put to death” such. And yes the Holy Spirit helps us - and we are to cooperate.

As for the behavior - we do know that what I have discussed is “acceptable” for it is repentance. One can read about such in various spiritual and moral works.

The problem comes in when one is not rejecting the mortal sins - one say plans to commit it again next week or next opportunity - or thinks “oh I will just confess now and can return to this sin next week” or one say does not leave ones job in the mob…etc.

Jesus called us to repent and believe the Gospel. Paul calls us to put to death such things and walk in the Spirit.

I extended it a bit, but is that what you are trying to tell me, pretty much? If so, then thank you because I think I’ve got it.

One can authentically repent - renounce mortal sin - turn away from sin and to Christ - even though one fears ones weakness. Even if one has fallen 77 X 7 times.

 

[Bookcat]

R

I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.[1] The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms. Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost! Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders. No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!

~ Pope Francis

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#I.%E2%80%82A_joy_ever_new,_a_joy_which_is_shared

If we should fall into mortal sin let us remember Jesus of Nazareth: The Lamb and the Good Shepherd (and let us think of such even daily…)…he came for sinners…to give them true life.

"Jesus is called the Lamb: He is the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. Someone might think: but how can a lamb, which is so weak, a weak little lamb, how can it take away so many sins, so much wickedness? With Love. With his meekness. Jesus never ceased being a lamb: meek, good, full of love, close to the little ones, close to the poor. He was there, among the people, healing everyone, teaching, praying. Jesus, so weak, like a lamb. However, he had the strength to take all our sins upon himself, all of them.

“But, Father, you don’t know my life: I have a sin that…, I can’t even carry it with a truck…”.

Many times, when we examine our conscience, we find some there that are truly bad! But he carries them. He came for this: to forgive, to make peace in the world, but first in the heart. Perhaps each one of us feels troubled in his heart, perhaps he experiences darkness in his heart, perhaps he feels a little sad over a fault… He has come to take away all of this, He gives us peace, he forgives everything. “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away sin”: he takes away sin, it’s root and all! This is salvation Jesus brings about by his love and his meekness. And in listening to what John the Baptist says, who bears witness to Jesus as the Saviour, our confidence in Jesus should grow. Many times we trust a doctor: it is good, because the doctor is there to cure us; we trust in a person: brothers and sisters can help us. It is good to have this human trust among ourselves. But we forget about trust in the Lord: this is the key to success in life. Trust in the Lord, let us trust in the Lord! “Lord, look at my life: I’m in the dark, I have this struggle, I have this sin…”; everything we have: “Look at this: I trust in you!”. And this is a risk we must take: to trust in Him, and He never disappoints."

~Pope Francis

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2014/documents/papa-francesco_20140119_omelia-parrocchia-sacro-cuore-gesu_en.html

"Jesus is the “Good Shepherd” who goes in search of lost sheep, who knows his sheep and lays down his life for them (cf. Mt 18:12-14; Lk 15:4-7; Jn 10:2-4, 11-18). He is the way, the right path that leads us to life (cf. Jn 14:6), the light that illuminates the dark valley and overcomes all our fears (cf. Jn 1:9; 8:12; 9:5; 12:46).

He is the generous host who welcomes us and rescues us from our enemies, preparing for us the table of his body and his blood (cf. Mt 26:26-29; Mk 14:22-25); Lk 22:19-20) and the definitive table of the messianic banquet in Heaven (cf. Lk 14:15ff; Rev 3:20; 19:9). He is the Royal Shepherd, king in docility and in forgiveness, enthroned on the glorious wood of the cross (cf. Jn 3:13-15; 12:32; 17:4-5)."

~Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20111005_en.html