confused about Transubstantiation...

[distracted]

Yeah. For one thing, this was written 44 years ago, in German. The website NovusOrdoWatch (hardly a friend of the Holy Father) has what purports to be a translation of much of the surrounding context, illustrating what he is really getting at (underlining is mine):
What in fact – in this manner we can now ask again – does the man do who celebrates the divine service of the Church, the sacraments of Jesus Christ? He does not abandon himself to the naive idea that God, the Omnipresent One, lives only at this place in space which is designated by the tabernacle in the church. This would already contradict the most superficial understanding of the dogmatic statement content , because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general * but the presence of the man Jesus Christ*, which refers to * the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man. He who goes to church and celebrates her sacraments does not do so, either, if he understands everything correctly, because he thinks the spiritual God is in need of material * media in order to touch the spirit of man**.
. . .
Eucharistic adoration or quiet visiting in church can, reasonably, not simply be thought of as conversation with the God who is thought present in a locally-circumscriptive manner. Statements such as “God lives here” and conversation with the locally-thought God based on such [thinking] express a mistake [misjudgment] of the christological event as well as the idea of God, which necessarily repels the thinking man who knows about the omnipresence of God. If one were to justify going to church on the grounds that one must visit the God who is only present there, this would indeed be a justification which would make no sense and would rightfully be rejected by modern man.

i don’t like the w ording…

when i got to the Real Presence, i am with God…, I am with Jesus Christ and i am with Him There in a way i am NOT with Him anywhere else that i have ever been… and if i say this, other Catholics say it as well… those who have been There, of course… Those who have not… have no place in this conversation…

just like those who have never been to the moon have no place speaking about what the moon is like… as though they had been there…

 

[distracted]

i think the point of it is that God is not limited to the physical form of the Eucharist. while we know that the Blessed Sacrament contains the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus, by no means is Jesus contained to that one physical form in that one physical location where the Blessed Sacrament is. the attitude is not to go there and visit God. you cannot visit God, God is everywhere. the point of adoring the Blessed Sacrament is not about visiting God

Jesus Christ is in the Host… and then He is in the Church in the tabernacle when the Hosts are left There…

Post 10… sounds like it is written by someone who does not believe this…

 

[LoyalViews]

then why didnt he SAY that??

he did NOT say that… you are giving the words meaning it wasn’t intended to have…

***when a person is in the Real Presence, s/he is in the presence of Christ, who is GOD ***

Okay, calm down. I do not want to get to bad terms with you.
You are right! Yes, your are CORRECT! The Host is Our Lord, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. It is our Lord, who is God…

MarkAnthony has done a superbe job of answering your question. It is what Ratzinger.
See…

Yeah. For one thing, this was written 44 years ago, in German. The website NovusOrdoWatch (hardly a friend of the Holy Father) has what purports to be a translation of much of the surrounding context, illustrating what he is really getting at (underlining is mine):
What in fact – in this manner we can now ask again – does the man do who celebrates the divine service of the Church, the sacraments of Jesus Christ? He does not abandon himself to the naive idea that God, the Omnipresent One, lives only at this place in space which is designated by the tabernacle in the church. This would already contradict the most superficial understanding of the dogmatic statement content , because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general * but the presence of the man Jesus Christ*, which refers to * the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man. He who goes to church and celebrates her sacraments does not do so, either, if he understands everything correctly, because he thinks the spiritual God is in need of material * media in order to touch the spirit of man**.
. . .
Eucharistic adoration or quiet visiting in church can, reasonably, not simply be thought of as conversation with the God who is thought present in a locally-circumscriptive manner. Statements such as “God lives here” and conversation with the locally-thought God based on such [thinking] express a mistake [misjudgment] of the christological event as well as the idea of God, which necessarily repels the thinking man who knows about the omnipresence of God. If one were to justify going to church on the grounds that one must visit the God who is only present there, this would indeed be a justification which would make no sense and would rightfully be rejected by modern man.

 

[MarkThompson]

i don’t like the w ording…

Then learn German, read his book, and write him a letter, instead of faking an “I’m confused about the Real Presence” post before coming forward with what you really wanted, which was to cut and paste a contextless paraphrase from some anti-Benedict website.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

“eucharistic devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with god"
well, i guess i have been deceived all these years…

not!!!

I can scream louder than you in pretty colors!!!

The Pope is right. We should not be talking to God casually and conversationally. He is God and deserves more respect than that.

Read the full article for context.

Yelling is fun!!!

 

[choy]

Jesus Christ is in the Host… and then He is in the Church in the tabernacle when the Hosts are left There…

Post 10… sounds like it is written by someone who does not believe this…

yes, the host is the Body of Christ. but what is being said is that God is not limited to the host alone. when you’re married and have kids, you don’t visit your spouse and kids (until your kids move out that is) because you’re all at the same place. thats what is being said, you do not visit God because God is with you everywhere you are.

 

[VetA]

far from funny… i will try to find the site i was at, but someone said that the pope said… .that the host is not changed physically into the body of Christ…

it isnt, it is changed changed in every way but in physical apperence. so that is to say the Body and Blood merely look like bread and wine

 

[VetA]

I can scream louder than you in pretty colors!!!

The Pope is right. We should not be talking to God casually and conversationally. He is God and deserves more respect than that.

Read the full article for context.

Yelling is fun!!!

I CAN SCREAM LOUDER (irl) AND IN A MEENER LOOKING COLOR:banghead: plus i can bang my head on a wall to proove i am tough

 

[CathFaith1]

An article from four years ago well worth reading.

While the pope hardly stands in need of my defense, I find that I must take the opportunity to answer some of the rhetorically-posed questions concerning Benedict XVI’s orthodoxy. Increasingly I have been receiving emails from readers of this site, providing quotes from Benedict XVI (whether as pope or as Cardinal Ratzinger) that are intended to prove his heterodoxy. I have yet to see a quote that wasn’t ripped from its context, squeezed through the filter of deep suspicion, interpreted in the worst possible light, and isolated from other statements within the body of Benedict XVI’s work.

Perhaps most representative of this phenomenon is the quote being bandied about the Internet concerning what Father Ratzinger said with regard to Eucharistic Adoration. The quote, in part, reads as follows:

** Eucharistic adoration or quiet visiting in church can, reasonably, not simply be thought of as conversation with the God who is thought present in a locally-circumscriptive manner. Statements such as “God lives here” and conversation with the locally-thought God based on such [thinking] express a mistake [misjudgment] of the Christological event as well as the idea of God, which necessarily repels the thinking man who knows about the omnipresence of God. If one were to justify going to church on the grounds that one must visit the God who is only present there, this would indeed be a justification which would make no sense and would rightfully be rejected by modern man. (Ratzinger, Die sakramentale Begründung christlicher Existenz, p. 26, source) **

Of course, it has been claimed and will continue to be claimed that Ratzinger is here rejecting the practice of Eucharistic Adoration, and by extension, repudiating the dogma of transubstantiation. But anyone who is more than superficially familiar with his work knows exactly what he is saying here: he speaks of something very similar to this false way of thinking in Introduction to Christianity, when he discusses how pagan religions build shrines and then superstitiously believe that they can only worship their gods at those places. The key ideas in the above quote are expressed in such phrases as “locally-circumscriptive [lokal zirkumskriptiv]” and “one must visit the God who is only [nur] present there.” For those who may be a bit unsure of the meaning of “locally-circumscriptive,” it means “to restrict to a particular location.” In other words, it is false to think of God as being present in the Church in a way that would restrict His presence to that location alone. Not only is this rightly rejected by modern man, it ought to be rejected by any orthodox Catholic who knows his faith.

Rorate Caeli
Thursday, June 08, 2006

 

[distracted]

i . the point of adoring the Blessed Sacrament is not about visiting God

***and i totally, whole-heartedly DISAGREE ***

yes, God is everywhere… but from my best information, most people end up in Hell… so how is it that so many miss the boat if God is “Everywhere”???

The will of God is accomplished through Jesus - (Isaiah 50 or 60-somthing)…

and Jesus is tangibly present only in the Catholic Church

 

[distracted]

I CAN SCREAM LOUDER (irl) AND IN A MEENER LOOKING COLOR:banghead: plus i can bang my head on a wall to proove i am tough

scream all you want… i disagree w/ both JP II and this pope… so far … i am still reading and researching cuz what i’ve read could have been taken out of context… but so far… doesn’t look good…

i never used to follow JP II… wasn’t into spiritual matters like i am now whne i was younger… so i have a lot of catching up to do… but one thing we all know is that he kissed the Koran… and apparently he said that all religions are great… also said something about how salvation can be achieved through other religions… thro means other than Christ… This is NOT biblical, to say the least…

 

[distracted]

Okay, calm down. I do not want to get to bad terms with you…

nobody needs to be calmed down… i just believe (know) certain things… dont presume i am upset… Truth doesn’t change by “yelling it” or not yelling it… so i have no need of being upset… and wasnt …

You are right! Yes, your are CORRECT! The Host is Our Lord, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. It is our Lord, who is God…

MarkAnthony has done a superbe job of answering your question. It is what Ratzinger.
See…

what you quote Ratzinger as saying doesn’t show up on this Quote box…

so i kinda forgot the other point i was going to make… see ya later…

 

[distracted]

“…because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general * but the presence of the man Jesus Christ, which refers to * the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man.” - Ratzinger

In reference to Post 32:

so… are we to believe that we are only in touch with the MAN Jesus Christ - not His divinity???

as if the 2 can be separated? this was a heresy centuries ago… Arianism? Nesotrianism? Both?*

i just dont like it… the sounds of it…*

 

[distracted]

i just read this again… and was blown away again…

“…because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general * but the presence of the man Jesus Christ, which refers to * the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man.” - Ratzinger

its not the presence of God in general???

doesn’t this pretty much say the same thing as “its not the presence of God [PERIOD]”?

what does he mean its not the presence of God in general?

***I’m sorry but its either the presence of God or it is NOT *****

 

[MarkThompson]

i just read this again… and was blown away again…

“…because the species of the Eucharist is not the presence of God in general * but the presence of the man Jesus Christ, which refers to * the horizontal historically-bound character of the divine encounter of man.” - Ratzinger

its not the presence of God in general???

doesn’t this pretty much say the same thing as “its not the presence of God [PERIOD]”?

what does he mean its not the presence of God in general?
**

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are not present in the Eucharist. It is the body of Christ. Welcome to the mystery of the Trinity; I suggest you read up on it. In the meantime, maybe you can stop putting things in large font, it’s obnoxious.

 

[distracted]

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are not present in the Eucharist. It is the body of Christ. Welcome to the mystery of the Trinity; I suggest you read up on it. In the meantime, maybe you can stop putting things in large font, it’s obnoxious.

are you out of the loop, Dude? :hypno:

Jesus said that if you have seen Him you have seen the Father… that He and the Father are one…

and at some council of the Church hundreds of yrs ago… cant recall which one… it was expounded upon that the Holy Spirit comes from Christ… filioque… i believe they call it…

Jesus is God…

 

[MarkThompson]

are you out of the loop, Dude? :hypno:

Jesus said that if you have seen Him you have seen the Father… that He and the Father are one…

and at some council of the Church hundreds of yrs ago… cant recall which one… it was expounded upon that the Holy Spirit comes from Christ… filioque… i believe they call it…

Jesus is God…

Sorry, that’s a pile of anti-Trinitarian -]heresies/-] mistakes you need to learn more about. The Father and the Son are not the same. This is why you (hopefully?) agree that Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. They are both God, but they are not the same as each other.

 

[LoyalViews]

***and i totally, whole-heartedly DISAGREE ***

yes, God is everywhere… but from my best information, most people end up in Hell… so how is it that so many miss the boat if God is “Everywhere”???

The will of God is accomplished through Jesus - (Isaiah 50 or 60-somthing)…

and Jesus is tangibly present only in the Catholic Church

You are right, but…what Ratzinger is saying is that when visiting Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, (must I say this againone must no talk to him as if he was a visitor in your house. You should not ttalk to him like you do your friends, for he is God. See, I can scream in colours too.

The Holy Eucharist is OUR LORD, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Me must not talk to him as “Hey, whats up Jesus”

 

[distracted]

Sorry, that’s a pile of anti-Trinitarian -]heresies/-] mistakes you need to learn more about. The Father and the Son are not the same. This is why you (hopefully?) agree that Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. They are both God, but they are not the same as each other.

whatever…

 

[Oneofthewomen]

whatever…

No, not whatever.

Mark Thompson is correct, the Trinity is a mystery- God in 3 persons.
We, as Catholics, worship a “triune God”.
See the CCC 232, 234, 237