Confused about what my priest said

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Monica4316

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Hi šŸ™‚ I’m sorry I’m not sure where to ask this question…

I’m becoming Catholic and I was baptized and chrismated in the Eastern Orthodox church. I attend a Roman Catholic parish and that’s the one I’m becoming Catholic in. I don’t live near any Eastern rite parishes, and I’d have to say my approach is more ā€˜Western’ anyway. (although I love the Eastern liturgy too and if I ever get the chance I’ll definitely visit :))

I was told that if someone is converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, they’d automatically belong to the corresponding Eastern rite, not the Latin rite, but can still take Communion at a Roman Catholic parish. But my priest said that’s only true if you become Catholic in an Eastern rite parish, but as it is, you have a choice in the matter. Now I’m sort of confused… cause I don’t know who is right here…? the priest said I’ll be Roman Catholic once I convert, and I wouldn’t have to switch rites… but I was told that I would?

if this is not the canon law,
can someone please provide me with a source?
I think at my parish most people who become Catholic were Protestants or non Christians and go through RCIA. Maybe my priest just doesn’t know very much about the Eastern rites cause it never came up before. But maybe I’ve just misunderstood everything (quite probably!)

thanks šŸ™‚
 
Don’t quote me on this - but I have a sneaking suspicion that if you are received into the Church in the Latin Rite, ordinarily you’d be considered to belong to that Rite for canonical purposes.

Whatever the case may be, you can certianly transfer from the Latin Rite to an Eastern Rite (if you wish to belong) even many years after your reception into the Church.

So your priest is right in that you do have a choice, which you can exercise at any time (as long as both your Latin Rite bishop and the relevant Eastern Rite approve).
 
I was told that if someone is converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, they’d automatically belong to the corresponding Eastern rite, not the Latin rite, but can still take Communion at a Roman Catholic parish. But my priest said that’s only true if you become Catholic in an Eastern rite parish, but as it is, you have a choice in the matter. Now I’m sort of confused… cause I don’t know who is right here…? the priest said I’ll be Roman Catholic once I convert, and I wouldn’t have to switch rites… but I was told that I would?
Well, you don’t ā€œhaveā€ to switch rites. All Eastern Catholics may receive Communion in a Latin parish, and vice versa. I don’t know for a fact which rite you would belong to, but I suspect that it would be the rite of the parish into which you were accepted into the Catholic Church.
 
According to Canon Law you would be a Catholic of the Church that corresponds to the Orthodox one you are leaving, unless you specifically apply for transfer to the Latin Church.

From the Eastern Code:

intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PZ.HTM

Peace and God bless!
 
. . .
I was told that if someone is converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, they’d automatically belong to the corresponding Eastern rite, not the Latin rite, but can still take Communion at a Roman Catholic parish. . . .
I think that used to be the rule, but it may have changed. If in doubt check with the Canon Lawyers at the Diocesan Tribunal. * While they mostly deal with marriage cases, all of this comes under their jurisdiction.*
 
It is still the rule, Ghosty just posted the relevant canon above.
 
Regarding Canon 35 in the CCEO, what does it mean to be ā€œenrolledā€? The canon states that an individual seeking communion with the Church is ā€œto be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.ā€ It doesn’t state that enrollment in a particular Church is automatically dependent on one’s previous rite, however, i.e. Russian Orthodox = Russian Catholic. Is it not possible, then, that enrollment (one’s canonical ā€œdesignation,ā€ if you will) is dependent upon the Church in which one is confirmed/chrismated?

I was raised Episcopalian and converted, so I would ordinarily be received into the Church as a Latin-rite Catholic. Because I was chrismated in a Byzantine Ruthenian Church, however, I was told that, canonically speaking, I am a member of the Ruthenian Catholic Church.
 
Canon 35 of the CCEO uses the word ā€œshouldā€ and it is, therefore, permissive and not restrictive.

It is the general rule but exceptions are allowed.
 
Here’s the whole canon:

Canon 35

Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Pretty evident that the rite enrollment is separate from the ā€œshouldā€ mentioned by Amadeus.

They are to be enrolled in a church of their own rite. (Not the closest particular church, but a church of their own rite.)
 
Here’s the whole canon:

Canon 35

Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.

Pretty evident that the rite enrollment is separate from the ā€œshouldā€ mentioned by Amadeus.

They are to be enrolled in a church of their own rite. (Not the closest particular church, but a church of their own rite.)
But they don’t have to be enrolled in the Church that corresponds to their previous rite. In effect, the priest mentioned in the original post is right: an individual can choose which Church to be enrolled in by virtue of his confirmation in that particular Church.
 
But they don’t have to be enrolled in the Church that corresponds to their previous rite. In effect, the priest mentioned in the original post is right: an individual can choose which Church to be enrolled in by virtue of his confirmation in that particular Church.
I think it has to be specifically requested. If nothing is put in writing it would be assumed that they remain in the Eastern Church that corresponds to the original.

Peace and God bless!
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Since you have been baptized and chrismated in an Eastern Orthodox Church you are ascribed to the corresponding Eastern Catholic Church upon making your profession of faith in any Church in communion with Rome, Latin or otherwise. Can 35, as has been cited previously applies as does Canon 32.1-2 of the Eastern Code:

ā€œ1. No one can validly transfer to another Church sui iuris
without the consent of the Apostolic See. 2. In the case of
Christian faithful of an eparchy of a certain Church sui iuris
who petition to transfer to another Church sui iuris which has
its own eparchy in the same territory, this consent of the
Apostolic See is presumed, provided that the eparchial bishops of
both eparchies consent to the transfer in writing.ā€

and this being most important after Vatican II, Canon 31:

Canon 31

ā€œNo one can presume in any way to induce the Christian faithful to
transfer to another Church sui iuris.ā€

In other words because you are already baptized and chrismated the provisions of Canon 30:

ā€œAnyone to be baptized who has completed the fourteenth year of
age can freely select any Church sui iuris in which he or she
then is enrolled by virtue of baptism received in that same
Church, with due regard for particular law established by the
Apostolic See.ā€ --Cannot apply to your case.

If you feel that your conversion to the Catholic Church is rooted in your attachment to the Latin Church and that after investigating the Eastern Catholic Church you would be ascribed or attached to, you definately desire to be a member of the Latin Church, you can in consultation with your pastor write a letter to the Latin bishop closest to your physical residence or domicile requesting that you of your own free will desire to be transfered to the Latin Church and that while respecting the sensitive issues involved with this transfer you feel that the Latin Church is the autonomous Church you desire to belong to at your reception into the Church. Your pastor should also write a letter of recommendation to the bishop. With this documentation should be provided real sacramental records, birth records, and name change forms (if any), and marriage records. This should all be sent to the Judicial Vicar or Chancellor of the Diocese via 1st class mail.

Usually, in order to change ritual Churches from the Byzantine to the Latin Church more than a simple desire to transfer is in order, since the Eastern Catholic Churches are so small in number and in practice it is harder to transfer from the Byzantine to the Latin Church–because of the historical issues of Latin clergy poaching Eastern faithful–that is another off-topic issue. Usually, the transfer is easier if you desire to enter a Latin religious order or in the case of men to enter a Latin seminary and practice as a Latin priest.

You can try your case, but it is most unlikely, that a simple desire to transfer is going to cut it. The bishop will most likely instruct you that you can practice in any Catholic Church you desire, and ritual transfer is unnecessary–which it really is since you can practice in any ritual Church you desire.

Investigate the Byzantine Church you would be ascribed to, contact its chancery and talk to the judicial vicar or chancellor–explain your situation. But, the most important thing is to not get caught up in the legal issues. The bottom line is that you are called to a lifelong conversion and not just a one shot and it’s done kind-of thing. I understand the need to know one’s place in the Church, so if you are meant to be Latin Catholic it will happen and if not be grateful that you have come home to union with the Holy Father. Make sure to contact the Byzantine chancery that would closest match the Orthodox Church you belonged to, whether Greek, Ruthenian, Ukrainian etc. Family heritage will also be another important issue in this transfer process. If you come from a family of Orthodox for example, most likely you will stay Eastern Catholic after being received, but you will be able to practice as a Latin Catholic if that is what you desire, although you should be encouraged to practice your Rite everywhere (Eastern Code, Canon 35). Now if you are Greek Orthodox, there generally are no Hellenistic Greek Catholic Churches to sacramentally participate in, so you can choose any of the Eastern Catholic Churches that hold to the Byzantine Rite and belong to one of them. I believe all you have to do is just settle in to a parish, there is no paperwork to do, but ask a priest or judicial vicar of the eparchy you desire to belong to.

Another reality in your case is that even though the priest may tell you that you will be a member of the Latin Church you will not be as Canon 112.2 of the Latin Code states:

" The custom, however prolonged, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of another Ritual Church sui iuris, does not carry with it enrollment in that Church."

Therefore, automatically upon making a profession of faith you become a Byzantine Catholic, and would need to make a petition to the Latin bishop with the support of your pastor to transfer; after the Byzantine bishop has agreed to the transfer and approved it he will send a letter to the Latin bishop agreeing to the transfer and the Latin bishop after he has agreed will send you a letter stating you are now a member of the Latin Church and the priest will issue a new baptismal certificate with the change of ritual Church in the notation.

Again, consult both the Latin and Byzantine tribunals in this case.

Sorry, it couldn’t be easy for you in regard to this matter.

In Christ,

Robert
 
It does matter which rite you are though since there are different rules for fasting and days of Holy obligation. You are required ro follow the rules of your own rite even if you do not go to it.

For example, I am a Ruthenian Catholic but I only go to a DL once a month since it is a 25 mile drive. Likewise, my Catholic classmates all go to the Latin Rite.

Even so, I have a Ruthenian Calendar which lets me know the requirements for my rite in my eparchy, and I will keep these even if I go to the Latin Rite Church.

For example, in my rite, Lent starts on the Monday before Ash Wednesday and it is a no diary/no meat day. Also, there is no meat on Wednesdays or Fridays in Lent. This is very generous considering what many Eastern Catholics in other countries or the Orthodox are bound to do though.
 
For example, in my rite, Lent starts on the Monday before Ash Wednesday and it is a no diary/no meat day.
Don’t forget, no eggs tooo…:tsktsk:

Also don’t forget that if you have medical conidition, you are NOT to fast if it puts your health in question…
 
Well I know there is no dairy allowed on the Monday and Good Friday, but other than that, dairy is still allowed. I didn’t think there was a fast requirement at all and that it just involved abstaining from dairy and meat or just meat depending on the day.
 
Glory to Jesus Christ! Blessings on your coming into the Catholic Church. Do you have a date set for when you’ll be welcomed in?

I hope as has been suggested by several folks here, you will follow the Canon Law of the Eastern Catholic Churches. You’re blessed with your heritage by virtue of your Baptism and Chrismation in an Eastern Orthodox Church and by the culture of your ancestors.

We currently have a person in my Latin Rite parish who is in a situation similar to yours. His background is Antiochian Orthodox. Because his family came from Lebanon he is going to be brought in as a Maronite Catholic. Our RCIA director was planning on him coming is as do other baptized adults who receive Confirmation when they are received in. I mentioned that if he was brought up Orthodox he was already Confirmed/Chrismated. The ensuing explorations were enlightening for our DRE and for the person coming into the Catholic Church.

Being an Eastern Catholic in the Latin Rite parish you are active in can be a wonderful chance to bring an awareness to your parish of ā€œthe other lungā€ of the Church. There is such a lot you can gain in claiming this part of your Christian birthright for yourself and for the community you worship with.

I hope you’ll put aside the idea of ā€œswitching ritesā€ at least for now, and allow yourself the opportunity to deepen your roots in the sui iuris church you’d be coming into by following the CCEO canon. Pope John Paul II of blessed memory in his Apostolic Letter ā€œOrientale Lumenā€ makes the point again and again of the importance of cherishing the two lungs of the Church. The Second Vatican Council spoke forcefully about the importance of preserving these Churches and not allowing the slippery slope of the larger numbers of Latin Rite communities to erode the Eastern Churches and the great need for Latin Rite priests and laity to become familiar with the Eastern Churches so as to not participate in Latinization of these communities. Chances are good indeed that your priest ā€œjust doesn’t know very much about the Eastern rites cause it never came up beforeā€ as you say.

I encourage you to read ā€œOrientale Lumenā€ if you haven’t already. tinyurl.com/hftfy

As you can see I have strong feelings about this šŸ™‚ There is nothing to prevent you from being active in the Latin Rite parish as an Eastern Rite Catholic. As wjp984 mentions you would do well to enrich your spiritual life by following the feasts and fasts of your Eastern Church, although doing so is preferably done under the direction of a spiritual father.

If you aren’t already familiar with The Byzantine Forum - Forums powered by UBB.threads you might surf over there also.

Peace and blessings
 
We currently have a person in my Latin Rite parish who is in a situation similar to yours. His background is Antiochian Orthodox. Because his family came from Lebanon he is going to be brought in as a Maronite Catholic.
Seems to me that since he was baptised and chrismated Antiochian Orthodox, this fellow should normally translate to the Melkite Greek Catholic Church.
 
It does matter which rite you are though since there are different rules for fasting and days of Holy obligation. You are required ro follow the rules of your own rite even if you do not go to it.
So how does this work when Latin Catholics are told to ā€œlive likeā€ an Eastern Catholic for a couple years before switching?
 
Thanks everyone for your replies!

I’m soo confused though 😦

does ā€œenrolledā€ mean where you become Catholic?
I don’t really have a choice in the matter, I can only become Catholic in a Latin rite church cause I don’t live near any Eastern rite churches and I don’t have a car. I wouldn’t be able to travel there, unless I move someday.

So does that mean I’ll actually be an Eastern Catholic when I convert (which will be on Easter, btw :))

I wouldn’t be able to go to an Eastern rite parish though!

So where does that leave me…

when I enter the Church the priest will give me a certificate saying that I’m now Roman Catholic, but… I won’t be, really?

Sure I can switch rites too, I guess… but I don’t know if they’ll let me, and more importantly - I don’t have a baptism certificate from the Orthodox church cause in that parish they don’t give certificates. The priest said if I won’t be able to obtain one, I can just get some sort of written evidence like a signature. But now i hear that to switch rites you need certificates for the Sacraments…

I just kind of feel overwhelmed by all this 😦
I wish it was more simple…
I like the Eastern rites too but I think it might be a little much for me to practice both Eastern and Latin rite Catholicism…

but thanks for all your replies,
God bless šŸ™‚
 
Thanks everyone for your replies! …

I’m soo confused though : …
I just kind of feel overwhelmed by all this 😦
I wish it was more simple…
I like the Eastern rites too but I think it might be a little much for me to practice both Eastern and Latin rite Catholicism…
Before making a comment or suggestion, it would be helpful to know a few things:


  1. *] Which Orthodox Church were you baptised and chrismated in?
    *] Were you a practicing member in that Church?
    *] If yes to (2), and irrespective of the accessibility of an Eastern CC, are you still interested in practicing in the Eastern Church?
    *] If no to (3), is there a particular reason why?
 
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