Confused and uncertain about some actions I thought was proper: Over Liturgy Abuse in the Military

[Mannyfit75]

To All,

As you all know I served in Iraq and I am deployed. I like to share the follow experience I had this pass Sunday. During the First Advent Sunday, we had a Non-Catholic, a Seven Day Adventist come to Church. She went to the Catholic services because she missed the Saturday service. She claim that our faith are no different.

In the military chapel, it was custom before the Liturgy begin that new comers introduce themselves before the congregation. This non-Catholic introduced herself as a SDA. She is also an Iraqi national.

Anyways, from my understand I had assumed she would not take communion. However, as it turn out she did go up and received. I wasn’t sure if the priest remember her since he is rather old and plus he was handing more than one parisher who were receiving Holy Communion.

I was shock that she went up and received any the Blessed Host anyways. I decided to confront her after Mass that she shouldn’t be allowed to received Communion. Unfortunately, she was gone but her fellow Iraqi who are Catholic were there. I told them that they need to inform her that as a Non-Catholic, she cannot received Communion.

I didn’t confront the priest about it since he was at the time busy. The priest by the way is an Army field grade officer. LT Col.

I decided to email to two senior NCO who take charge of the ministry concerning the incident. I quoted the Canon Law, and a passage from 1 Corinthians. A meeting was held today, and one of the senior NCO who had taken seminary and had knowledge of canonical law say, that I was taken it out of context and it was not meant for the laity.

I say listened to him but I still could not grasp why we would allow a Non-Catholic received the Body and Blood of the Lord? He said my intension was good because I felt it needed to be corrected. He told me I got about it the wrong way.

I don’t think I had taken the Code of Canon Law out of context. The Church have made it clear Non-Catholics cannot partake in Holy Communion. This has left me completely out of confused and puzzled. He also put that since it was an officer who taken the option to have the a Non-Catholic received Communion, he had the right to over ride, canonical law.

With ranks aside, I think God is place above military rank structure. It seem to me that the military Catholic community has allowed itself to liturgical abuses. I don’t know how much this has really damage my view in Catholicism inside the US military as a whole. The more I look at it, I find myself going East than remain Roman Rite. At least Eastern Rite Catholics have a set standard on this. This really bothers me.

 

[Mannyfit75]

No takers… eh?

 

[Phemie]

No takers… eh?

The Lt. Col was wrong and nobody wants to admit it because of his rank and probably because of yours. As a Catholic I think it behooves you to talk to him personally and express your concern. You’re right and the rest of them are wrong.

Funny things happen in the military. I’m familiar with a case where the padre was ordered not to bring wine to the camp for a Mass with the Cadets because it was an alcohol-free camp. He said “I’m sorry, I can’t celebrate Mass without wine.” They insisted and he finally replied “Within a short time it will have become the Blood of Christ.” With a resigned shake of the head, they let him go ahead.

 

[japhy]

I decided to email to two senior NCO who take charge of the ministry concerning the incident. I quoted the Canon Law, and a passage from 1 Corinthians. A meeting was held today, and one of the senior NCO who had taken seminary and had knowledge of canonical law say, that I was taken it out of context and it was not meant for the laity.

First, wait more than 20 minutes before you think your thread is abandoned. Second, the idea that the particular Canon Law on the matter is not meant for the laity is entirely wrong. You were correct, the other officers were wrong. Non-Catholics are not permitted to receive Holy Communion.

 

[Mannyfit75]

First, wait more than 20 minutes before you think your thread is abandoned. Second, the idea that the particular Canon Law on the matter is not meant for the laity is entirely wrong. You were correct, the other officers were wrong. Non-Catholics are not permitted to receive Holy Communion.

Let me get this straight the LTC is the chaplain. I don’t think he was to blame here. I think he rather forgotten the woman who received Communion was a Non-Catholic. Her Iraqi friends were shocked she received communion even though she was not Catholic. I didn’t brought the issue to the LTC (aka Catholic Chaplain) I brought it over to the Non-Commission Officers (Enlisted) who work as assistance to the Chaplain. The chaplain was wrong to allow this to happen but I don’t blame him because there were other 50 plus Catholics receiving the Holy Communion. It is hard to track all of them. However, I am always aware of my surroundings and took note of the SDA and just hope she doesn’t go and received. She did.

The Sergeant First Class, a senior NCO, took Canonical Course and was a former seminarian and it was he who said that Canonical Law is not meant for the laity to interpret. I still very much disagree with his opinion because Canon Law does deal a lot with Laity, and the Clergy.

 

[tn4lee]

As a retired USAF officer (and my wife as well) I would suggest that the Chaplain’s military rank is NOT a relevant component of the discussion. All Chaplains (I’ve never witnessed an enlisted chaplain in my 33 year career) are officers, as far as I know. The Chaplain is there to serve God and YOU.

The military rank of the chapel Non Commissioned Officers’ is not relevant, either. **BUT, the fact that you are receiving an ****answer from someone **other than the Chaplain is critical to the discussion. In my experience, I would never accept the opinion of a Chapel NCO or anyone else for that matter on issues of dogma and/or canon law. Why on earth would I do that? Stick by your guns (literally and figuratively) and speak directly to the Chaplain about the issue. Politiely demand an interview.

Thanks for you service. God bless.

 

[japhy]

The Sergeant First Class, a senior NCO, took Canonical Course and was a former seminarian and it was he who said that Canonical Law is not meant for the laity to interpret. I still very much disagree with his opinion because Canon Law does deal a lot with Laity, and the Clergy.

Regardless of who is to interpret it, the Church has taught that the Law regarding the reception of Holy Communion by those not in communion with the Church is forbidden except in some very particular circumstances. If you are not allowed to appeal to Canon Law proper, then refer to these documents (ordered chronologically):

Dans ces derniers temps, n. 6: After giving doctrinal justifications of its norms, it formulates these in the following way: “Celebration of the sacraments is an action of the celebrating community, signifying the oneness in faith, worship and life of the community. Where this unity of sacramental faith is deficient, the participation of the separated with Catholics, especially in the … Eucharist … is forbidden. Nevertheless, since the sacraments are both signs of unity and sources of grace (cf. Decree on Ecumenism, n. 8), the Church can for adequate reasons allow access to those sacraments to a separated brother. This may be permitted in danger of death or in urgent need (during persecution, in prisons) if the separated brother has no access to a minister of his own communion, and spontaneously asks for a Catholic priest for the sacraments-so long as he declares a faith in these sacraments in harmony with that of the Church, and is rightly disposed. …” (Directory concerning Ecumenical Matters, Part One, nn. 55)

In quibus rerum circumstantiis, VI., and its right interpretation as described in Dopo le publicazione: Apart from danger of death, the Directory mentions two examples, people in prison and those suffering persecution, but it then speaks of “other cases of such urgent necessity.” Such cases are not confined to situations of suffering and danger. Christians may find themselves in grave spiritual necessity and with no chance of recourse to their own community.

Redemptionis Sacramentum, n. 85: Catholic ministers licitly administer the Sacraments only to the Catholic faithful, who likewise receive them licitly only from Catholic ministers, except for those situations for which provision is made in can. 844 §§ 2,3, and 4, and can. 861 § 2.

Certain conditions must be met. It does not sound like they were met in the case of the Seventh-Day Adventist. Why an SDA would even accept Holy Communion from a Catholic boggles my mind, but I digress.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

It’s so wonderful that the Lord has appointed you to judge and monitor and expose and correct such abuses. When did He give you this authority?

 

[Phemie]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

It’s so wonderful that the Lord has appointed you to judge and monitor and expose and correct such abuses. When did He give you this authority?

Rome gave him that authority in Redemptionis Sacramentum

**183. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

1. Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

**

 

[Brenda_V]

Let me get this straight the LTC is the chaplain. I don’t think he was to blame here. I think he rather forgotten the woman who received Communion was a Non-Catholic. Her Iraqi friends were shocked she received communion even though she was not Catholic. I didn’t brought the issue to the LTC (aka Catholic Chaplain) I brought it over to the Non-Commission Officers (Enlisted) who work as assistance to the Chaplain. The chaplain was wrong to allow this to happen but I don’t blame him because there were other 50 plus Catholics receiving the Holy Communion. It is hard to track all of them. However, I am always aware of my surroundings and took note of the SDA and just hope she doesn’t go and received. She did.

The Sergeant First Class, a senior NCO, took Canonical Course and was a former seminarian and it was he who said that Canonical Law is not meant for the laity to interpret. I still very much disagree with his opinion because Canon Law does deal a lot with Laity, and the Clergy.

It may not be for a Lay man to interpret Canon law but on this issue, abuse, the law is clear, there is no need for interpretation! Manny, I think you need to speak with the LTC Chaplain, don’t be afraid of him just because he is an Officer and you are Enlsited, he is your Priest and at this point in time you are getting mixed messages. Go directly to him and let him know this, let him know that you understand how he gave the SDA Iraqui woman communion and ask him for advise on how to approach this situation with this woman and her friends - maybe you have already done all you can do about it.

I am sure in my Parish (much larger than 50 people per Mass) there are those who receive who are not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church and they see nothing wrong with it, if they are told otherwise and any who might be handing out Communion are told who they are they might still slip in under the “radar” so to speak. At this point the sin or abuse falls on their shoulders and not yours or those responsible.

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

It’s so wonderful that the Lord has appointed you to judge and monitor and expose and correct such abuses. When did He give you this authority?

Actually, we are all appointed to judge and monitor such abuses if we are aware of them. How we go about doing that will be different depending on the abuse and who we are.

Manny - thank you for your service to the Military and your zeal for protecting the Precious Body of Christ!

Brenda V.

 

[Phemie]

I am sure in my Parish (much larger than 50 people per Mass) there are those who receive who are not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church and they see nothing wrong with it, if they are told otherwise and any who might be handing out Communion are told who they are they might still slip in under the “radar” so to speak. At this point the sin or abuse falls on their shoulders and not yours or those responsible.

Brenda V.

Unfortunately, not everyone believes in and listens to what Rome says. At a funeral at my parish a few years ago the aide to a local dignitary came to ask if his boss, an Anglican IIRC, could receive communion. The bishop, who was the celebrant, replied “Pretend you didn’t ask the question.” I thought the young deacon was going to have a stroke.

 

[japhy]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

Here’s a document from the USCCB on the matter. It includes standard guidelines for reception of Holy Communion, part of which is:
For our fellow Christians
We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).

 

[Brenda_V]

Here’s a document from the USCCB on the matter. It includes standard guidelines for reception of Holy Communion, part of which is:For our fellow Christians
We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).

Well worth repeating! I totally forgot that this existed. It is posted in the front of my Parishes missals and is read aloud at every funeral and Wedding.

Brenda V.

 

[bluerose]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

Whoa, let’s not paint the ENTIRE Catholic military community with the same brush! I happen to “belong” to a military hospital Catholic community (can’t call it a parish, but it may as well be–same group of folks for years!) that is FAR more orthodox than most parishes I’ve encountered. We have to share the hospital chapel with the Protestant community, but we have daily Mass, not to mention 3 weekend Masses, while they only have one service weekly. Not only that, the Catholic community includes a few couples who were NOT married in the Church and attend Mass there faithfully every week, but do NOT receive communion (although their children do). Apparently this military chapel is doing SOMETHING right, since this is a day and age where it seems everyone–even non-Catholics, as stated by the OP–goes to communion!

So let’s not get carried away with the generalizations. There are a few good military Catholic communities out there!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think the Catholic military community has been tainted with Ecumenism and the desire to allow Non-Catholic received Holy Communion, which I don’t think can justify it.

It’s so wonderful that the Lord has appointed you to judge and monitor and expose and correct such abuses. When did He give you this authority?

The Church provides documents which made it very clear this type of abuse cannot be tolerated. I don’t speak for myself, I speak for behalf of the Church, which I humbly serve.

 

[BlestOne]

Personally I think you handled it entirely wrong…
First, you should remember that being confrontive is going to get you nowhere. You should have inquired in a non formal way by asking the chaplain directly. It is not yours to make judgments or tell others how to do their job.

I know you mean well, but you totally came off like a know it all here. You made this a public condemnation instead of merely inquiring why the event happened.

Also, I have to agree with the previous poster about making generalizations… I was in the military and my civilian pastor is a AF chaplain as well. None of my experiences…good or bad had anything to do with being less orthodox or liberal ecumenism.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Personally I think you handled it entirely wrong…
First, you should remember that being confrontive is going to get you nowhere. You should have inquired in a non formal way by asking the chaplain directly. It is not yours to make judgments or tell others how to do their job.

I know you mean well, but you totally came off like a know it all here. You made this a public condemnation instead of merely inquiring why the event happened.

Also, I have to agree with the previous poster about making generalizations… I was in the military and my civilian pastor is a AF chaplain as well. None of my experiences…good or bad had anything to do with being less orthodox or liberal ecumenism.

I did say I went wrong about it rather than confront the priest. But I think the NCO also went wrong about that I misinterpret the Canon Law. It has been consistent in Church Law that Non-Catholics cannot received Communion. I think the Didache even states that those who are not baptized and are not members of the Church cannot partake. I have an issue with his interpretation of the Canon.

1. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs (Didache, Chapter 9 verse 5)

 

[BlestOne]

I did say I went wrong about it rather than confront the priest. But I think the NCO also went wrong about that I misinterpret the Canon Law. It has been consistent in Church Law that Non-Catholics cannot received Communion. I think the Didache even states that those who are not baptized and are not members of the Church cannot partake. I have an issue with his interpretation of the Canon.

1. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs (Didache, Chapter 9 verse 5)

Manny,
There is no question that what was done was incorrect. Whether it was a simple mistake or a misinterpretation is a moot point at this point. You cannot control the actions of others only your own. Take it as a lesson learned… if you have questions go to the priest not the Chaplains assistant.

Now, realize that you can only point out the problem, but you cannot fix it. You have no authority in the Chapel Services unless you work there.

Try asking the priest directly this time about what you saw without any accusations about the assistant interpreting canon. If the priest tells you the same… you have done what you could… if not, just realize that the assistant is not an authority and now that the priest knows… it will be better. BTW… who is your priest there? I have a cousin that is serving in Iraq that is a priest.

 

[bear06]

Write the bishop who oversees the military and tell him what happened (name names) and ask for a clarification in the matter. If you like, you can always CC the priest in question. Of course, be very nice and use phrases like “I was under the assumption that… Am I misunderstanding…”, etc.