Confused Catholic

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I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
 
it seems you are holding onto a few pairs of Protestant glasses…

And trying to unconsciously fit everything into a Protestant box.

In addition to calling the Catholic Answers Apologist line…etc

Contact: chnetwork.org/

chnetwork.org/contact-us/

There are many things that have been revealed or related to Revelation that one may simply not grasp yet…and there are things one may not grasp until Heaven.

Can a person profess the Faith even if one does not understand everything? Yes…for one knows in Whom one has believed. One trusts him and his Church. “Credo!”
“I believe!”

As a convert myself …let me offer my affirmation that Church is the Church that Jesus founded and her teachings are truth…in Jesus of Nazareth (and thus in his Church) is true life!
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
Shawn,

Sorry for your distress. Can I ask what it is about the Marian doctrines that trouble you? Surely it’s not that it’s impossible to be born sinless – through God, after all, all things are possible. (And I think there is a good case to be made that Mary, to be the mother of God, had to be a kind of tabernacle, and thus totally ritually pure). Is it just that it isn’t in the Bible? Well, sure, but as you point out, plenty of things aren’t in the Bible. The Bible is not meant to be an instruction manual to Christianity. It’s only a collection of the first principles of Christian (and Jewish) theology. Those principles require development over time by the institutional authority which Christ established in the person of Peter.

I think, if nothing else, you should be able to rest assured in the knowledge that God would not have allowed His Church to persist this long in error, given the assurances He gave to Peter. If we were wrong to believe in Purgatory, confession, papal supremacy, or the immaculate character of Mary, God would have corrected us – or rather He would have ordained events to proceed such that these beliefs would never have come about, or would have been cut away before spreading.
 
Shawn,

Sorry for your distress. Can I ask what it is about the Marian doctrines that trouble you? Surely it’s not that it’s impossible to be born sinless – through God, after all, all things are possible. (And I think there is a good case to be made that Mary, to be the mother of God, had to be a kind of tabernacle, and thus totally ritually pure). Is it just that it isn’t in the Bible? Well, sure, but as you point out, plenty of things aren’t in the Bible. The Bible is not meant to be an instruction manual to Christianity. It’s only a collection of the first principles of Christian (and Jewish) theology. Those principles require development over time by the institutional authority which Christ established in the person of Peter.

I think, if nothing else, you should be able to rest assured in the knowledge that God would not have allowed His Church to persist this long in error, given the assurances He gave to Peter. If we were wrong to believe in Purgatory, confession, papal supremacy, or the immaculate character of Mary, God would have corrected us – or rather He would have ordained events to proceed such that these beliefs would never have come about, or would have been cut away before spreading.
Thank you for this cogent explanation.I am going to have my convert hubby’s read this!👍
 
It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Define “unbiblical teachings”.

Chuck
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
Make a concious decision to believe them. Just say, “Yes, I believe!” and then God will help you understand.

It is a strict axiom in the spiritual life that faith comes before understanding. I think you have that backwards.

You might scoff and complain that one can’t simply believe in something one does not understand but I counter that people do it every day. People choose to believe in the most unbelievable things with hardly any evidence.

Consider the man with the son who is possessed in the Bible.

Then he questioned his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” He replied, “Since childhood. It has often thrown him into fire and into water to kill him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” Jesus said to him, “‘If you can!’ Everything is possible to one who has faith.” Then the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe, help my unbelief!” Jesus, on seeing a crowd rapidly gathering, rebuked the unclean spirit and said to it, “Mute and deaf spirit, I command you: come out of him and never enter him again!” Shouting and throwing the boy into convulsions, it came out. (Mark 9:21-26)

Be like the man in the Bible. Make a concsious decision to believe, then cry out to Jesus to help that part of you which still struggles.

We have faith not because we understand things, but because God has revealed truth to us not only through the Bible, but through his Holy Church. Faith and understanding are not the same thing. Faith comes first.

-Tim-
 
On another thought… If you have researched then you know that Mary is a Queen. It is in the Bible. It is Biblical.

If Jesus is our King and Mary is his Queen, then everything else falls into place and we have only to bow our knee to our King and his Queen.

There is no doubt that Jesus is our King. The whole theme of Matthew’s Gospel is Jesus and his kingdom; the announcement of the kingdom, descriptions of the kingdom, the establishment of the kingdom, the tearing down of the old kingdom. Jesus spends all of Chapter 13 of Matthews Gospel giving parables about what his kingdom will be like.

When the people saw the sign he had done, they said, “This is truly the Prophet, the one who is to come into the world.” Since Jesus knew that they were going to come and carry him off to make him king, he withdrew again to the mountain alone. (John 6:14-15)

The people around Jesus recognized him as thier King. It’s undeniable.

And we must always remember that the Old Testament is the story of God preparing his people to accept their Messiah, preparing Israel and the whole world to accept their King. And when we look at all the Kings of the Old Testament who come before and prefigure Jesus, we find a curious fact about who these Kings appointed to be their Queens.

Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, who sat at his right. (1 Kings 2:19)

Bathsheba was King David’s wife but was the mother of King Solomon. No one in the kingdom was higher than the king, yet Solomon pays homage to his mother and seats her in a throne on his right. This is because Bathsheba is not only Solomon’s mother but she is also the queen.

It makes sense that kings would appoint their mother’s as queen. Wives were often exchanged as part of a military alliance. Each king would give a daughter or a niece to the king with which he was making a military alliance. This was a way for a king to make sure that he had a person in intimate contact with the king with whom he had made an aliiance, someone in his allies inner court. But for a king to make this wife into a queen was to elevate a blood relative of a potential rival to a place of great authority in his kingdom, and this was too great a risk. Kings therefor, did not appoint their wives to be queen but appointed their mother’s to the position of queen instead. That is why we see Solomon bring a throne for and pay homage to his mother Bathsheba. Bathsheba, Solomon’s Mother, is also Solomon’s Queen.

The Hebrew word for queen-mother or literally “Grand lady” is Gebirah. We see references to the Gebirah elswhere in the Old Testament.

Jehu met the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah king of Judah, and he said, “Who are you?” And they answered, "We are the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah, and we came down to visit the royal princes and the sons of the queen mother."
(2 Kings 10:13)

This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem. (Jerimiah 29:2)


In fact, the various kings throught he centuries are listed in the Books of Kings and the Books of Chronicals, and with every king, the king’s mother is also listed.

In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, son of Nebat, Abijam became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Maacah, daughter of Abishalom. (1 Kings 15:1-2)

In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, Abijah became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother was named Micaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah. (2 Chronicals 13:1-2)

Uzziah was sixteen years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-two years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Jecoliah, from Jerusalem. (2 Chronicals 26:3)


There are dozens of verses like this. God is telling us who the mother of the king was because the mother of the king was a queen.

*A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Revelation 12:1) *

We can argue who the woman in Revelation 12 is but the fact that she wears a crown is clear. Only kings and queens wear crowns. The woman is clearly a queen. The woman is described as giving birth to a male child who rules the nations, and this description is consistent with a king and his mother the queen. The fact that the woman’s son in Revelation 12 is “Caught up to God and his throne” leads most Christians to believe that the child is Jesus. The mother can only be Mary, and Mary is Queen.

As Queen of Heaven and earth, Mary has been granted very real power and authority. As a Queen with real authority, we are right to ask her for help, and for protection, and for guidance.

Mary is Queen of Heaven and earth. All the angels in Heaven bow before Mary. All the saints in Heaven bow before Mary.

Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth is in the Bible. It is completely Biblical.

-Tim-
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
Mary was stainless - how could a holy Lord be born out of sin? It just seems logical to me, but then I am probably simple-minded. God knew what he would do before Mary was even born.

You converted and you don’t believe in the succession of Bishops??? :eek: Or confession? Confession is completely Biblical!

If you really are a Catholic, how can you recite the Creed every week when you don’t believe it? On what basis do you receive the Eucharist? Do you think it is merely a symbol?

Why did you convert in the first place, if I may ask?

:confused:
 
Tim Staples of Catholic Answers(an apologist and convert) has plenty of material to help you through this. Check out the Shop button at the top of the page. You can also go to the archives for Radio shows on this topic. Don’t be discouraged, many converts have trouble with this. Trust that God will see you through. 🙂

The Bible is a catholic book, written by and for catholics, so it will never lead you away from the Church.
 
its ok to be honest about difficulties with some doctrine but use your struggles to study and further explore with an open mind. About the assumption of Mary, remember that the OT does record to incidences of assumption, Enoch and Elijah as well as Moses. It would make perfect sense considering who Mary is, that she would be assumed into heaven. About the immaculate conception of Mary, the angel greeted her with “Hail full of Grace”, The angel Gabriel did not use her name Mary but her position in being full of grace Ie: without sin. It seems like she would have to be “full of Grace” in order to give birth to the holy Son of God.
If she did have sin or even original sin, it would seems like she could not give birth to the Son of God. His holiness would probably result in her destruction. There can be no sin before God. About her perpetual virginity, remember that when the Bible mentioned Jesus “brothers” that the language of that time did not have a term for cousins. Also if Mary and Joseph had other children, they are not mentioned in the Luke’s passage about Jesus in the Temple.
Also, at the foot of the cross, Jesus entrusted John in taking care of Mary. That would have be unheard and unnecessary if Jesus had true half brothers. It seems to make sense that Jesus would be raised by two committed virgins in Mary and Joseph. While you might think some of the teaching of Mary may be unbiblical, they are not and have basis and roots in the Bible. keep an open mind and keep studying.
God will enlighten you.
 
Mary was stainless - how could a holy Lord be born out of sin? It just seems logical to me, but then I am probably simple-minded. God knew what he would do before Mary was even born.
It is important to note here that Mary’s Immaculate Conception was not done out of necessity, but rather as an honor. God knew Mary would accept His Will, as God is outside of our time, and so saved Mary from the stain of Original Sin. However, the idea that Mary had to be sinless so Christ can be sinless is flawed logic, as it means the whole succession of Mary’s line would have to have been sinless as well.
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
Hello Shawn,

I don’t know if this will help you but this video I have found to be very helpful when it comes to understanding Mary.
youtube.com/watch?v=bxCBxGmtUos

Purgatory, confession, and papal headship are all very biblical. A good site for questions regarding where things are in the bible are of course this site, and another one I found is Scripture Catholic. scripturecatholic.com/
 
Wow! Thank you all for your responses, it truly means a lot! I did not mention one thing that I should have…I suffer from panic, anxiety, depression, and bipolar-like symptoms. This is something I carry with me as a burden, but I trust that Jesus knows my true intentions, and I see myself kinda like King David, who was after Gods own heart! 🙂

I will continue to understand the teachings better, I converted because I do know this IS the Church Christ started! 🙂 I’m a flawed human sinner who at times doubts (just like the disciples did, “When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.” --Matthew 28:17

Just like I know gravity is real, but I can’t see it or understand it completely… so, if I strive to be open to understand the teachings (though many are hard for me…25 years as a baptist 😉 ) as long as I’m not denying it then I feel that is what God wants me to do, He knows above all my true intentions.
 
We ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it, believing that between Christ our Lord, the Bridegroom, and the Church, His Bride, there is the same Spirit which governs and directs us for the salvation of our souls. Because by the same Spirit and our Lord Who gave the ten Commandments, our holy Mother the Church is directed and governed. - St. Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Society of Jesus.

That seems to help me when I struggle with the Faith, because Christ defends his Church so “the gates of hell will never overcome it” (Matt. 16:18) since he is always with it (Matt. 28:20) and insures through the Holy Spirit that it is the “pillar and foundation of ALL Truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). 🙂
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines. I still am NOT convinced of what the Church teaches about her. I love her, respect her, and view her as the most respected and honored creature God ever created, but as for her Immaculate conception, assumption, etc; I just can’t consciously accept it. I know Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties do not equal 1 doubt”, but I do doubt, it is no longer a difficulty.

So with this said, what do I do? I know you can tell me to continue to pray, ask God or Mary herself to reveal herself better to me, etc;…been there and done that. I truly cannot accept these doctrines in good conscience. Suggestions?
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
Confused,
Shawn
If your concerns center around things being unbiblical, how about looking to the Bible?
John 21:25:
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
Sacred scripture tells clearly that not everything that Christ did and taught made it into the Bible. Heck, for the first few hundred years, there was no Bible and everything was transmitted via oral tradition. If Christ taught it, but no one wrote it down, are we supposed to ignore it and dismiss it? Remember, nowhere in the Old Testament does God or one of His prophets promise us a Bible. In addition, nowhere in the New Testament does Christ or one of His apostles promise us a Bible.

Whenever I experience doubts or speak to someone who does, I always refer to the Church Fathers. What did the first generations of Christians believe? If you take a look at the very first Christians you will find they were Catholic in their beliefs. This is one area where our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters have those of us in the Western Church at a disadvantage. We do not focus on Patristics in the same way that they do. We go back to Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure, etc. but don’t get back to the Fathers enough. Don’t get me wrong, I am not suggesting that we stop focusing on Aquinas, etc. That certainly not be very Dominican of me. 😉 However, it is also important to note that in Aquinas’ commentaries on Sacred Scripture, he referred to the Fathers extensively. We should also.

Remember also that things like the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption were not pulled out of thin air. Those infallible statements merely ratified that which was already widely believed and accepted within the Church.

I think if you take some time with the Church Fathers, you might find some of the answers you are looking for.

I hope you find some peace,

Jason
 
Shawn, if it helps regarding Mary, she was present with the Apostles at the time of Pentacost. She’s everything the Catholic Church teaches. I’ve had a hard time with “Mother of God” for some time, even this is waning.

Take care. I have experienced some of what you mentioned of your ailments. I pray for your continued courage and perseverence.
 
I have been a convert to the Catholic Church for nearly 3 years now… I have read books, tracts, talked to apologetic Catholics, prayed, been to multiple priest and have researched in depth… the Marian doctrines.
Here is where they are in the Bible, and here is an explanation of why they make sense.
  • It’s not always with Mary, it is with unbibical teachings as well…I’ve researched and applied the same energy toward her as other issues(purgatory, confession, papal headship) I just don’t accept these!
All of these are explained here
Wow! Thank you all for your responses, it truly means a lot! I did not mention one thing that I should have…I suffer from panic, anxiety, depression, and bipolar-like symptoms. This is something I carry with me as a burden, but I trust that Jesus knows my true intentions, and I see myself kinda like King David, who was after Gods own heart! 🙂
Here is someone who can help. God bless and keep fighting those doubts and fears. Remember that only the enemy deals in fear.
 
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