Confused: How will a first marriage impact our future plans?

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I must amend my original question (I guess “add something” would be the more appropriate phrase) because some important information, previously unknown to me, came to light last night. After reading the responses on here, I managed to talk to a group of very nice people at the St. Louis Cathedral office. They directed us towards a deacon who handles annulments and other marital situations for the Archdiocese of New Orleans. We spoke on the phone with him and after hearing our information , the deacon said it seemed like my fiancé would indeed need an annulment. He also referred us to a 4wk annulment writing workshop, held every Tues night, which we attended as a couple for the first time last night.

As to be expected, it was mainly geared towards Catholics seeking annulments from other Catholics; however, when we raised the question of our slightly different situation, the man in charge asked us to stay afterwards for a more private discussion. We described in detail our histories and additionally, our future desires. He then asked a very important question, a question no one had asked us until now; **“Was your ex wife married prior to marrying you?” **and my fiancé said “Yes she was”(meaning she’s on her 3rd marriage now). Well this was news to me, since he rarely, if ever, mentions anything about his ex. Upon hearing that, the man in charge said, “You don’t even need to be here because you don’t need an annulment, provided she was indeed married to someone else before you.”

Apparently, this means she was never “free” to marry my fiancé in the first place because she was still married to her first husband in the eyes of the Church. He said all we need to do now, in order to clear up any prior marriage concerns, is to provide the necessary documentation.

Sorry that was so long, I just wanted to describe what happened in detail so I could ask for thoughts on the matter as it stands now. The men who run the workshop only deal with annulments for the Church, so it would seem that they are experts in their field, but everyone else we talked to said he would need to have his prior marriage annulled in order for us to be married in the Catholic Church. He just neglected to mention his ex’s prior marriage to everyone we’ve discussed this with before last night. He didn’t think it would matter and no one ever asked, so he never brought it up.

Does this seem correct to you? Does his former wife’s previous marriage really resolve the need for an annulment , in order for us to be married, the eyes of the Catholic Church? :confused:
 
Yes, the person you spoke to was correct. Because his wife was previously married she was not free to marry the marriage was not valid unless she or her ex had an annulment. The question now is what proof will the Church require, if any. I’d call the Tribunal and ask what to do from here.
 
Apparently, this means she was never “free” to marry my fiancé in the first place because she was still married to her first husband in the eyes of the Church. He said all we need to do now, in order to clear up any prior marriage concerns, is to provide the necessary documentation.
this is the Ligamen case I referred to in an earlier post. If his ex wife was married to someone else before him, then she may indeed have had an impediment of prior bond resulting in an invalid marriage between the two of them.
but everyone else we talked to said he would need to have his prior marriage annulled in order for us to be married in the Catholic Church.
A Ligamen case is a decree of nullity. It simply requires different kinds of proof to establish a prior bond than other types of nullity cases.
Does this seem correct to you?
Yes, but I think the deacon overstated the case.
Does his former wife’s previous marriage really resolve the need for an annulment , in order for us to be married, the eyes of the Catholic Church?
A Ligamen case is typically more streamlined, but it is still a decree of nullity.

Ligamen must be researched and proven. There are many variables, such as whether or not the first marriage was to a Catholic and if so whether it was in or outside the Church, whether the person she was married to ever applied for convalidation or a decree of nullity, whether the spouse was deceased when your fiancé married her or prior to their split, whether her spouse had been married before, etc.

So, paperwork and testimony must still be gathered, but if all is gathered and in order a Ligamen case goes much more quickly because there is no trial.

Please take it one step at a time, and don’t get your hopes up until you know more about the first wife.

Here are some links that explain Ligamen:

arlingtondiocese.org/tribunal/documents/cases_ligamen.pdf

archgh.org/Personnel/Tribunal/English/Types-of-Petition-Forms/Download-Forms/Prior-Bond-Ligamen-Petition/

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108518

Here us the Ligamen petition form for your archdiocese:

arch-no.org/system/documents/assets/000/000/194/original/ligamen_-_respondent_fill.pdf?1403212824
 
this is the Ligamen case I referred to in an earlier post. If his ex wife was married to someone else before him, then she may indeed have had an impediment of prior bond resulting in an invalid marriage between the two of them.

A Ligamen case is a decree of nullity. It simply requires different kinds of proof to establish a prior bond than other types of nullity cases.

Here are some links that explain Ligamen:

arlingtondiocese.org/tribunal/documents/cases_ligamen.pdf

archgh.org/Personnel/Tribunal/English/Types-of-Petition-Forms/Download-Forms/Prior-Bond-Ligamen-Petition/

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108518

Here us the Ligamen petition form for your archdiocese:

arch-no.org/system/documents/assets/000/000/194/original/ligamen_-_respondent_fill.pdf?1403212824
Oh Wow! Thank you SO much for the information, especially these links. I was just starting to wrap my head around the traditional annulment process and now it’s changed (it seems) to this type of case. I still can’t believe my fiancé never mentioned his ex-wife’s prior marriage to me, or to anyone else associated with this undertaking. Then again, why would he? He’s told me on numerous occasions that he’d much prefer to focus on our happy and fruitful future instead of his painful past. I should have realized something myself though. When I looked her up at the start of all this, she came back with 4 different last names and I shrugged it off as it was someone else who had been accidentally associated with her.

Anyway, as far as documentation goes, the man running the annulment workshop (a lay person), who seems to know his stuff and offered to help us through this process personally, said we will need the following:

Fiancé-
Lutheran Baptismal certificate
His marriage certificate and divorce decree from ex-wife

Ex-Wife-
Her marriage certificate and divorce decree from husband #1, showing when and where they were married and when they were divorced.

It’s going to cost a bit of $ but the State of Washington’s vital statistics office has a pretty easy process for getting these vital records.

What I do know about the first marriage between my Fiancé’s ex-wife and husband #1 is: It was done as a civil ceremony only, not associated with any church or religion. Both parties were unbaptized and consider themselves atheists. There was no later convalidation, and neither parties were baptized afterwards. A civil divorced followed and she later civilly married my Lutheran fiancé, followed by another civil divorce.

One thing that has me concerned…If they ask, I’m not sure what kind of documented proof we could provide to show that neither my fiancé’s ex-wife nor her first ex-husband were ever baptized. That would be, essentially, asking us to prove a negative.

Thanks again for all the help and information. Your knowledge and honesty, as well as other PPs , on this matter is greatly appreciated. 👍
 
One thing that has me concerned…If they ask, I’m not sure what kind of documented proof we could provide to show that neither my fiancé’s ex-wife nor her first ex-husband were ever baptized. That would be, essentially, asking us to prove a negative.
it’s usually an affidavit of the parties involved or people who knew them at the time, etc. The archdiocese will tell you what they need.

If everything is as you state, and there are no wrinkles that come up regarding the first wife and her first marriage/husband-- then it looks like clear cut Ligamen and should go smoothly.

IF. Never say never until you have the decree of nullity in your hand!

Best wishes that it does go quickly and smoothly.
 
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