Confused LDS missionaries?

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Hi! I posted this on LDS.net forums and wanted to see if i had any better luck here. I have been reading these forums to educate myself for a while now and have seen there are some LDS members that are pretty well informed šŸ™‚

Hi! I have been looking into the Mormon Faith, and decided to meet with some missionaries to ask some questions about doctrine and some doubts I was having.

One of these doubts i was had to do with the Brigham Young statement about people living on the moon and the sun: ā€œI will tell you who the real fanatics are: they are they who adopt false principles and ideas as facts, and try to establish a superstructure upon a false foundation. They are the fanatics; and however ardent and zealous they may be, they may reason or argue on false premises till doomsday, and the result will be false. If our religion is of this character we want to know it; we would like to find a philosopher who can prove it to us. We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed ā€œthe man in the moon,ā€ and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. Every planet in its first rude, organic state receives not the glory of God upon it, but is opaque; but when celestialized, every planet that God brings into existence is a body of light, but not till then. Christ is the light of this planet. God gives light to our eyes. Did you ever think who gave you the power of seeing who organized these little globules in our heads, and formed the nerves running to the brain, and gave us the power of distinguishing a circle from a square, an upright from a level, large from small, white from black, brown from gray, and so on? Did you acquire this faculty by your own power? Did any of you impart this power to me or I to you? Not at all. Then where did we get it from? From a superior Being. When I think of these few little things with regard to the organization of the earth and the people of the earth, how curious and how singular it is! And yet how harmonious and beautiful are Natureā€™s laws! And the work of God goes forward, and who can hinder it, or who can stay His hand now that He has commenced His kingdom?ā€

When i asked about this, they said that Young came back the next day and asked the congregation if they believed him, and some of the people said no. They told me he then asked why, they replied and said they prayed and felt it was wrong.

I looked for the part when he came back and asked if the congregation believed what he had said, and i had no luck finding it. I was wondering if these missionaries are confused, or if they are lying to me. If you can find the part i was unable to find to this sermon by Brigham young please link. Or if you can give another explanation that would be helpful as well. Thanks

I really just want to know if Young came back and said he was testing the members of the churchā€¦ I cant seem to find it anywhere in the Journal of Discourses and i feel like i was lied to, or that the missionaries were lied to.

Thanks!
 
JIME said:
I really just want to know if Young came back and said he was testing the members of the churchā€¦ I cant seem to find it anywhere in the Journal of Discourses and i feel like i was lied to, or that the missionaries were lied to.

Thanks!
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Most likely the missionaries were lied to and then they passed it on to you.
For instance: My seminary teacher in high school taught us that dinosaurs were remnants of another "god"s world. That the fossils found were his creation and when our ā€œgodā€ formed this world he had used their carcasses as a framework of sorts. Mormons will come up with some doozies to explain their doctrines.

in Christ
Steph
 
You are looking for consistency, where there is none, and asking it from people who have none to give.
 
Thanks for the replies! Iā€™m definitely leaning farther and farther away from joining the mormon faith as I look into itā€¦
 
This sermon was given on July 24, 1870 in the Mormon tabernacle in Salt Lake City. It was recorded by David Evans, who at the time was a member of the Utah House of Representatives, and a reporter for the Deseret News. You can find the entire sermon in the Journal of Discourses, Vol.13:268.

This sermon was printed in the Deseret News on August 10, 1870.

I couldnā€™t find in the digital archive of the Deseret News any retraction, or claiming of a test, regarding this sermon.
 
JIME said:
ā€œI will tell you who the real fanatics are: they are they who adopt false principles and ideas as facts, and try to establish a superstructure upon a false foundation. They are the fanatics; and however ardent and zealous they may be, they may reason or argue on false premises till doomsday, and the result will be false. If our religion is of this character we want to know it; we would like to find a philosopher who can prove it to us. We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed ā€œthe man in the moon,ā€ and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. Every planet in its first rude, organic state receives not the glory of God upon it, but is opaque; but when celestialized, every planet that God brings into existence is a body of light, but not till then. Christ is the light of this planet. God gives light to our eyes. Did you ever think who gave you the power of seeing who organized these little globules in our heads, and formed the nerves running to the brain, and gave us the power of distinguishing a circle from a square, an upright from a level, large from small, white from black, brown from gray, and so on? Did you acquire this faculty by your own power? Did any of you impart this power to me or I to you? Not at all. Then where did we get it from? From a superior Being. When I think of these few little things with regard to the organization of the earth and the people of the earth, how curious and how singular it is! And yet how harmonious and beautiful are Natureā€™s laws! And the work of God goes forward, and who can hinder it, or who can stay His hand now that He has commenced His kingdom?ā€

When i asked about this, they said that Young came back the next day and asked the congregation if they believed him, and some of the people said no. They told me he then asked why, they replied and said they prayed and felt it was wrong.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think that you need to ask the missionaries the source of their information. That would be the easiest way to find out. If they canā€™t prove their information, that doesnā€™t mean that they are lying but it does mean that they got it from a second hand or third hand source.

The mormon faith does not depend on everything a church leader says. It all comes down to the book of mormon. It is either true or false. If false, then regardless of what BY said, the lds church is false. But if that book is true, then it really does not matter what BY said. The Journal of Discourses is published by the lds church. No mormon that I know takes it as doctrine. They are discourses, nothing more. BY was out among the people and he said much. Some good and some bad. But he was also a man who built a state and made it successful and under his watch the lds church grew and prospered. And that says a lot about the man.
 
why_me said:
I think that you need to ask the missionaries the source of their information. That would be the easiest way to find out. If they canā€™t prove their information, that doesnā€™t mean that they are lying but it does mean that they got it from a second hand or third hand source.

The mormon faith does not depend on everything a church leader says. It all comes down to the book of mormon. It is either true or false. If false, then regardless of what BY said, the lds church is false. But if that book is true, then it really does not matter what BY said. The Journal of Discourses is published by the lds church. No mormon that I know takes it as doctrine. They are discourses, nothing more. BY was out among the people and he said much. Some good and some bad. But he was also a man who built a state and made it successful and under his watch the lds church grew and prospered. And that says a lot about the man.
Click to expand...
The JoD is quoted often in LDS lesson materials that are intended and used for teaching doctrine.

Here we come again to the question, if a ā€œprophetā€ is teaching false doctrine, what does that say about the so-called prophet?
 
If you want to believe that a book that is 30% trash, 55% quotes and paraphrases form the Bible and 15% authentic account is true-- go right ahead and call it true. Just let me believe as I do.
It all comes down to the book of mormon. It is either true or false
Click to expand...
Canā€™t you see that this world is made up of perspective, color, shades of intensity, all that can be seen in its complexity?

The world is not a line-drawing, without even shades of grey, just as things are not cut and dried true-false, bad-good.

The BOM is poorly written, self-contradictory, improbable, with characters without personality, with a few exceptions that actually prove the rule. There is some good stuff in there, it is just hard to find. šŸ˜‰
 
RebeccaJ said:
The JoD is quoted often in LDS lesson materials that are intended and used for teaching doctrine.

Here we come again to the question, if a ā€œprophetā€ is teaching false doctrine, what does that say about the so-called prophet?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that everything that is in the Old Testament is all that the prophets of that time said? And do you believe that everything Paul said is in the New Testament? I think that they said much more and probably a lot of strange things came from their mouths but unfortunately, we have no records. šŸ™‚
 
Jerusha said:
If you want to believe that a book that is 30% trash, 55% quotes and paraphrases form the Bible and 15% authentic account is true-- go right ahead and call it true. Just let me believe as I do.

Canā€™t you see that this world is made up of perspective, color, shades of intensity, all that can be seen in its complexity?

The world is not a line-drawing, without even shades of grey, just as things are not cut and dried true-false, bad-good.
Click to expand...
The bible is either true or false. What do you believe? šŸ˜‰ Or does the bible have fields of grey?? šŸ™‚
 
why_me said:
Do you believe that everything that is in the Old Testament is all that the prophets of that time said? And do you believe that everything Paul said is in the New Testament? I think that they said much more and probably a lot of strange things came from their mouths but unfortunately, we have no records. šŸ™‚
Click to expand...
red herring
 
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