Confused: Mary the savior of the roman people?

[Zooey]

gelsbern:

Thanks mercygate, that makes much more sense. I think the guy on EWTN just mistranslated on the fly.

Blessed Mary, help of the people of Rome, pray for us. Does indeed make sense.

I suspected it was a matter of translation, but wasn’t sure.

Thanks again.

Yes, that’s perfect…salus, from which we get salutary…helpful/healthful, etc…
(I forgot to get off the soapbox…)

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

medjr:

Ex. 20: 4-5

I think that sums it up nicely.

Michael

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http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Confused: Mary the savior of the roman people?
The original quote is a reference to a title of mary in Rome. It is not about salvation from sins, but about salvation of the city from physical danger.

I believe it originally refers to the intercession of Mary being effective in protecting the City from plague and from barbarian attack.

St Maria Maggiore contains a famous icon of this title

 

[Contarini]

gelsbern:

Twice in Cardinal Ratzinger’s talk during the funeral of the Pope, the following was said:

and I pulled these directly from the vatican site.
vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2005/documents/ns_lit_doc_20050408_messa-esequiale-jp-ii_it.html

Beata Virgo Maria, apostolorum Regina et Salus populi Romani, apud Deum intercedat ut vultum Filii sui benedicti Papæ nostro ostendat atque Ecclesiam luce resurrectionis eius consoletur.

Which translates into

Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Apostles and Savior of the people of Rome, Interceed for us to Go

No, it translates as “salvation,” and it can mean “health” or “well-being” or “rescue” as well as salvation. Given the reference to the Roman people, I strongly suspect that the prayer was introduced in the early Middle Ages after the fall of the Western Empire and refers to the idea that the Virgin would protect against invaders. The Byzantines had a similar notion, and the Russians have taken it up–“Our Lady of Kazan,” for instance, is venerated because the icon protected the city of Kazan against the Mongols.

Edwin

 

[km112482]

km112482:

Catholics do not worship mary as an idol. She is the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ. I do say the rosary and ask her to intercede for me, but never once do I say I worship only you. I personally don’t get why everyone does not understand why Catholics have true devotions to Mary. She carried Jesus in her womb. She was truely the first tabernacle. Because of her FIAT the Lord Jesus was brought into this world. IF she was good enough for her son then she is good enough for me. He said on the cross “Behold your Mother…” She is our mother. I for one have no problem asking her to go to her son for me and to lead me to him. Our Savoir was brought into this world through her, so I see no problem with trying to get back to Our Savior through her.

God Bless, Kerri

I just also wanted to add a quote I just read. “The more we honor the Blessed Virigin, the more we honor Jesus Christ, because we honor Mary only that we may go to her only as the way by which we are to find the end we are seeking, which is Jesus.”

--------St. Louis De Montfort

I just thought it was really beautiful.

God Bless,
Kerri

 

[Tom]

mercygate:

I’m starting a new thread (which should be one post long) just to make sure that the confusion about Cardinal Ratizinger’s prayer gets cleared up *statim. * gelsbern asks the (quite understandable) question:
Answer: She didn’t.
Stelten’s Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin says that “salus” can mean “help.”

So, no more heart attacks here, OK? And you anti-Catholics, sorry to spoil your fun but Mary is not the Savior: Jesus is!

 

[HagiaSophia]

OK, guys: RELAX! Stelten’s Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin says that “salus” can mean “help.”

Whew! I was starting to have palpitations for a minute.

While your dictionary sounds the most “technicalyl correct” I believe we may be looking at an idiomatic expression of language rather than a literal. I say this because I notice that at least 5 Euro nations are using this expression in their translations of it:

“Saint Mary comfort of the Roman people”

 

[puzzleannie]

Ex Nihilo:

Greetings,

I do believe that particular invocation is in reference to an historical event where the city of Rome was saved from some catastrophe through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. I’m a little foggy on the details of the actual event though.

Pax.

Mary is honored under the title of Our Lady of the Snows for this miracle, when her intercession saved Rome from barbarian attack (for a time), so the title is used in ancient litanies. the word “salvation” or “savior” when applied to Mary in this way is not in the sense of equating her with our one unique Savior, Jesus Christ, who saved us from sin and death once and for all, but more in the sense of one whose action or intercession procured deliverance from a temporal threat, i.e., you would describe a fireman who rescued you from a burning building as a savior from that immediate threat, or the person who called 911 when you were being attacked could be a savior because of his intercession with the cops.

 

[gelsbern]

Would an admin please lock this thread, it got explained fully and I don’t understand why people continue to post to it.

Thanks

 

[tuopaolo]

Contarini:

No, it translates as “salvation,” and it can mean “health” or “well-being” or “rescue” as well as salvation.

Yes everyone should know that since the “salus” in EENS translates as “salvation.”

It is also the way it seems to be consistently translated on the Vatican website:

“Salvation of the Roman People”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1999/february/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_13021999_school_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/2002/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_20021231_te-deum_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/angelus/2002/documents/hf_jp-ii_ang_20020629_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/angelus/2000/documents/hf_jp-ii_ang_20000629_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/jul-sep/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000805_jubilee-pilgrimages_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/angelus/2000/documents/hf_jp-ii_reg_20000528_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/march/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020308_movimento-tra-noi_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/december/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20021208_immacolata_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2002/january/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020113_presepe-ama_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_08091953_fulgens-corona_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/angelus/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_ang_29061998_en.html

I’ve always understood the word “salvation” (I mean in English) to mean health or well-being because that was what I was taught from a relatively early age. At a retreat, a priest asked us if we knew what salvation meant and he taught us that the word “salvation” comes from the Latin “salus” which he said meant “health.”

This is important to realize because salvation is not primarily about being saved from some disaster like hell, but rather being brought to health, the well-being – physical, moral, spiritual, social – that God intends for us as humans. Our salvation will be complete in Heaven and after Christ’s second coming.

God’s using Mary as an instrument to bring about salvation – be it her co-operation in the Redemption, or her intercession today for our temporal and spiritual needs, or her supernatural influence or supernatural apparitions – manifests the power and mercy of God our savior. Just as a priest who absolves sin as an instrument of God’s mercy, manifests His power and mercy. In this way Mary and the sacraments and everything else in our holy religion glorifies God. Unfortunately, many people do not see or refuse to see this truth and beauty.

 

[Paul_Stephens]

As this issue has been resolved, this thread is being closed