Confused of the "end times"

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Fidei

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Im confused of the catholic view of the “end times” can anyone clarify such questions?
Is the rapture for Catholics literal? are we really going to heaven (body and soul after the resurrection) as the passage implies: being “caught up in the clouds to meet the lord”?

…or (after the resurrection) are we to stay on earth and attend the Church triumphant?

Basically, where will we be judged? heaven or earth?
What is a clear definition of a “new heaven and a new earth”? some say that heaven and earth will become one, as if were living in both places at once, or are they still distinguished yet permits us to travel back and forth?
and please, if youre going to post links, post something relevant, ive experienced that a lot of times when people would let me read between pre/post millenial and amillenial. I know the sequence of events already and certainly dont need to understand the protestant mishap of their “rapture views”, im just confused at our state when the “end” happens (as the questions state).
 
Yes, we believe in a bodily resurrection. That’s part of the reason why we show so much respect for the bodies of the dead–it helps to communicate a theological truth. “Rapture”, to me, is just a confusing word. Jesus comes back. The end.

I don’t think the Church has any official teachings on the ins and outs of the whole thing. Does it matter? Most of the time, when Jesus talks about it in the Gospels, he simply reiterates how important it is that we be faithful and ready. That’s the important part, not the physics or the judgement location, right?
 
Moscati said:
Yes, we believe in a bodily resurrection. That’s part of the reason why we show so much respect for the bodies of the dead–it helps to communicate a theological truth. “Rapture”, to me, is just a confusing word. Jesus comes back. The end.

I don’t think the Church has any official teachings on the ins and outs of the whole thing. Does it matter? Most of the time, when Jesus talks about it in the Gospels, he simply reiterates how important it is that we be faithful and ready. That’s the important part, not the physics or the judgement location, right?
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im asking this because basically, im giving a friend lectures on our faith. She’s a JW. I wouldnt call it a debate of some sort, but an exchange of ideas. they believe that humans will reside on earth forever and the earth will still be our old earth but with a “new governance” under Jesus Christ and we are the ones to turn this planet into a paradise. Im just confused on the CC’s official doctrine of this type. i seem to put interest on the “new heavens and new earth” promise of God for us faithful catholics and what it means.

JWs believe that heaven and earth is distinct even after the battle of armageddon. as i look to research, I hear from a number of Catholic sources that we are able to travel back and forth between the new heaven and new earth while some catholic sources say that earth will be one with heaven. I just want the above questions answered for the sake of explaining the catholic view of the last things.

If i cant explain, then i would seem unqualified to carry my church’s name in front of her, right? it would be very awkward to back out now…
 
What research is that? I’d be curious to read a bit more about it.

All I’ve seen (and all we were taught in RCIA) was that premillenialism was definitely wrong (because Jesus was only coming back once), and that the default position of the church is amillennialism. Nothing specific about the end-times has been dogmatically defined or taught. It’s just not that important to us! Perhaps someone else can help you more.

I do like this verse:

“But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace” (2 Pet. 3:8–14).
 
Jesus Christ from Immaculate Conception until his Second Coming is THE END TIMES. His Resurrection from the dead will be Him resurrecting us after our passing or Jesus’ Second Coming. This is what the Church’s teaching on rapture. I don’t know why I never learned this in Catholic school unless I was sleeping or ignorant in class.

Rapture is from the Latin word “rapiemur” meaning taking up or taking away.

The rapture you hear about today comes from John Nelson Darby of the protestant group Pymouth Bretheren, taking scripture out of context. This rapture idea is called Darbyism, dispensationalism.

Some of the books the dispensationalists use comes out of Daniel, Corinthians, Romans Revelation. It’s merely “sensationalism”. The end of the 19th century brought out a craze of denominations with rapture crazes people “waiting on the hillside” for Jesus’ return.

The JW (Jehovahs Witness) won’t give up on this from their founder Charles Taze Russell.

In the 1970’s darby’s Dispensationalism flies into the “Charismatic Movement”. In the
1980’s. Hal Lindsey put out dispensationalist books(Late Great Planet Earth). Another man is Tim La Haye with his “fiction” books

Tim La Haye’s stories go to other people in video on “Left Behind” series. Tim La Haye attended a Christian college, Bob Jones University( founded 1927). Bob Jones University, severe Anti-Catholic, ties with Irish Republican Army, Rev. Ian Paisley of Ulster Politics Northern Ireland, the Ku Klux Klan, and never allowed an African American to attend until 1971. BJU is still having racial issues to this day. So much for love of God and love of neighbor.

End times started at Jesus, the Church and will culminate at Jesus christ Second Coming.
 
Fidei said:
Im confused of the catholic view of the “end times” can anyone clarify such questions?
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To begin with, when most Christians refer to the Rapture, they are speaking of the belief that prior to Jesus’ Second Coming (in which the world will be judged and the events of the Book of Revelation will unfold) he will come in a secret preliminary way to take all true Christians to heaven, and therefore save them from the Final Tribulation (the wars, plagues, etc.). This is not, however, a Catholic understanding of eschatology.

To answer all the questions in your original post, I highly recommend that you order and listen to Dr. Brant Pitre’s CD series, “Jesus and the End Times”, which is a recording of a Lenten series he gave in a parish. I have personally listened to the entire series twice:

catholic-productions.com/store/audio/pitre/jet_CD.html

In it he gives an overview of Jesus’ statements from the gospels about the End Times, covers aspects of the Book of Revelation, and provides the Catholic understanding of the “new creation” that the world is destined for. Furthermore, he speaks at length about Rapture theology, including its origins and why it is not a Catholic teaching.

I should point out that Dr. Pitre does not give a full examination of the Book of Revelation (there simply was not enough time) but for that he recommends Michael Barber’s Coming Soon: Unlocking the Book of Revelation:

amazon.com/Coming-Soon-Unlocking-Revelation-Applying/dp/193101826X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279988166&sr=1-1

I likewise have this book, and it is very “readable” (it was written for the average Catholic, so one does not need a master’s degree in theology to understand it). Dr. Scott Hahn also recommends this book.
 
I recommend the CCC…
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (CCC)
SECOND EDITION
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ARTICLE 11
"I BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY" 998-1019
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**Here are a few paragraphs for your info.

Hope this is helpful.
Pax Christi

**
****How do the dead rise? ****
997 What is “rising”? In death, the separation of the soul from the body, the human body decays and the soul goes to meet God, while awaiting its reunion with its glorified body. God, in his almighty power, will definitively grant incorruptible life to our bodies by reuniting them with our souls, through the power of Jesus’ Resurrection.
998 Who will rise? All the dead will rise, "those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."552
999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself”;553 but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, “all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear,” but Christ “will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body,” into a “spiritual body”:554

But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel. . . . What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . The dead will be raised imperishable. . . . For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.555
** 1000 This “how” exceeds our imagination and understanding; it is accessible only to faith. Yet our participation in the Eucharist already gives us a foretaste of Christ’s transfiguration of our bodies: **

**Just as bread that comes from the earth, after God’s blessing has been invoked upon it, is no longer ordinary bread, but Eucharist, formed of two things, the one earthly and the other heavenly: so too our bodies, which partake of the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, but possess the hope of resurrection.556
** 1001 When? Definitively “at the last day,” "at the end of the world."557 Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.558
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The Catholic understanding of the End Times is also covered very well in the book Will Catholics be Left Behind? by Carl E. Olson. This book has cleared up a lot of the confussion I have had over the subject.

Peace
 
Fidei said:
im asking this because basically, im giving a friend lectures on our faith. She’s a JW. I wouldnt call it a debate of some sort, but an exchange of ideas. they believe that humans will reside on earth forever and the earth will still be our old earth but with a “new governance” under Jesus Christ and we are the ones to turn this planet into a paradise. Im just confused on the CC’s official doctrine of this type. i seem to put interest on the “new heavens and new earth” promise of God for us faithful catholics and what it means.

JWs believe that heaven and earth is distinct even after the battle of armageddon. as i look to research, I hear from a number of Catholic sources that we are able to travel back and forth between the new heaven and new earth while some catholic sources say that earth will be one with heaven. I just want the above questions answered for the sake of explaining the catholic view of the last things.

If i cant explain, then i would seem unqualified to carry my church’s name in front of her, right? it would be very awkward to back out now…
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No action of man perfects this world. God resurrects this present world and perfects and restores it to its original state. We will reside on this new, transfigured, perfect earth (the present world will end - will be remade by God into the new heaven and the new earth), in our new, resurrected, transfigured bodies. We will be perfect in body and soul, and burning with love for God and neighbor, always doing His will. It will be Heaven on earth as in ‘thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven’.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:
The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. (1042)

Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, “new heavens and a new earth.”(1043)

In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.(1044)

Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, “the holy city” of God, “the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”(1045)

The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ. (1047)
 
beehumble said:
God resurrects this present world and perfects and restores it to its original state.

We will reside on this new, transfigured, perfect earth (the present world will end - will be remade by God into the new heaven and the new earth), in our new, resurrected, transfigured bodies.

It will be Heaven on earth as in ‘thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven’.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul.

The universe itself will be renewed:(1042)

“renewal”, which will transform …] the world, “new heavens and a new earth.”(1043)

The visible universe, …], “so that the world itself, restored to its original state,…] should be at the service of the just,”. (1047)
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Hello,

I’m confused, this sounds like some people will be living ON THE EARTH. But aren’t we all destined to rule with Jesus in heaven.
 
Cashue said:
Hello,

I’m confused, this sounds like some people will be living ON THE EARTH. But aren’t we all destined to rule with Jesus in heaven.
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We are ae destined to be with God in the new heavens and Earth. Don’t let your perception of heaven be more impotent than the thought we will all be united with Christ.

Don’t let our confusion about the unknown way of afterlife be a way to justify their belief that many will spen eternity in an earthly realm separate from God.
 
Here is the Church’s teaching on the “Last Things” in a nutshell:

When each of us dies, our souls are immediately judged by God. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming of Jesus will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive and who are in a state of sanctifying grace will be taken to heaven (what some Protestants think of as of “the rapture”). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God’s presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were -heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all. No one will then have any doubt about the fairness of God’s judgment on those they thought would be in heaven but are not, or those they thought would not be in heaven but are.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles I linked below:

rosary-center.org/ll57n1.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n2.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n4.htm
rosary-center.org/ll49n6.htm
 
My personal view may help in deciding on how much you really want to talk about this with you JW friend.

“End times” for me means, more than anything, my own, personal ‘end time’. That could happen at any second or maybe not for another 50 years.

It will come ‘like a thief in the night’ and I must be ready. As to what will happen in the future I don’t see how it really affects me – I’ve got to be ready at all times and in all places. The rest may be an interesting intellectual discussion, but of no real consequence.
 
Cashue said:
Hello,

I’m confused, this sounds like some people will be living ON THE EARTH. But aren’t we all destined to rule with Jesus in heaven.
Click to expand...
It will not be this present earth. It will be a remade, perfect earth. Peter says the present world, the elements will melt in the fire and be transformed into a new earth. Jesus said I am the Resurrection - He resurrects us AND the earth which has been polluted by our sin. He said, Behold, I make ALL things NEW.

Remember the glory be- …as it was in beginning, is now, and ever shall be, WORLD WITHOUT END. Amen. And the Our Father: They kingdom come, they will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven…

The new earth will be like heaven, but on earth, from what I gather from these. Revelation says God will dwell with His people. Jesus will dwell with us, as will the Apostles, Blessed Mary etc. and also our deceased loved ones who made it into heaven.

The catechism backs this up with the paragraphs already cited in earlier post.
The early fathers and the catechism back this up, as does Scripture. We have physical bodies to live in a physical place. The new earth is somehow a part of heaven - they become united. The new earth is a perfect place, as is heaven,and it is inhabited by perfect people - perfect in body and soul and in love with God forever and doing God’s will forever.

It will be beautiful and joyous.

But we shouldn’t worry so much about what heaven is like; we should concern ourselves more with being sure we GET to heaven.

God bless you.

(And I am not sure this can be adequately discussed with a JW. JWs only want to take you from your Catholic faith so they can sell you magazines forever.It is a magazine-selling outfit disguised as a religionso not sure you should waste time with them.)
 
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