Confused on Marian devotion

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Almost_convert

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I am on my way to joining the Catholic Church but marian devotion has given me pause. Up till this point people have just said “we don’t worship Mary, we just pray for her intercession” then I came across these quotes by saints

catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm

Can somebody please make sense of this stuff for me - is this really Catholic theology???
 
Almost_convert said:
I am on my way to joining the Catholic Church but marian devotion has given me pause. Up till this point people have just said “we don’t worship Mary, we just pray for her intercession” then I came across these quotes by saints

catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm

Can somebody please make sense of this stuff for me - is this really Catholic theology???
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The Second Vatican Council acclaims Mary as the “Mediatrix”. Pope Benedict XVI invoked her as “The Mediatrix of all graces.” The simplest way to put it is: “Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.” --St. Bernardine of Siena.
Jesus is The Head, Mary is the Neck, and the Church is the Body.

I hope and pray to Jesus and Mary that you come to appreciate and reverence and pray to Our Mother.
 
I have no idea where these quotes come from, whether they are distorted or taken out of context or badly translated or the result of trying to understand meanings of past centuries with modern sensibilities or what. I’d bet that you can’t find original sources for many of these quotes, and that many others are indeed taken out of context.

But what I do know is that not only does the Church not worship Mary, but that to do so would be a grave and possibly mortal sin. Look in the Catechism for clear Catholic teaching.

I also know that the liturgy of the Church, the Mass, is focused entirely on the Three Persons of God, and not on Mary (have you been to a Mass, and if so have you heard anything like those quotes?)

I also know that the Prayer of the Church, the Liturgy of the Hours, is focused entirely on the Three Persons of God and not on Mary (have you read the LotH? it’s available online).

I also know that hyper-traditionalist sites like the one you link to can be very, very strange, and often creepy.

So the Catechism refutes worship of Mary, and the Liturgy of the Church refutes it, and the Prayer of the Church refutes it. And that’s good enough for me.
 
bsroufek said:
The Second Vatican Council acclaims Mary as the “Mediatrix”. Pope Benedict XVI invoked her as “The Mediatrix of all graces.” The simplest way to put it is: “Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.” --St. Bernardine of Siena.
Jesus is The Head, Mary is the Neck, and the Church is the Body.

I hope and pray to Jesus and Mary that you come to appreciate and reverence and pray to Our Mother.
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Is “Mediatrix of all Graces” official Church teaching? A simple yes or no, with citations, please.
 
Note that the “Mary as the neck of the Body of Christ” concept is not Church teaching either, but merely a popular way of expressing her role.

The best explanation I’ve heard for the over-the-top statements about Mary made by some of the saints (or in hymns, etc.) is that it’s like love poetry. Even a Christian might refer to his wife in hyperbolic terms as his “life” or “destiny” or whatever, without meaning to give offense to Jesus who actually is those things.

Official Church teaching makes it very clear that Mary is a creature like us, infinitely less than God, and entirely dependent on God for whatever blessings or privileges she has enjoyed either in her earthly life or in Heaven. Expressions of popular piety can seem to forget that part, though most likely they simply assume you know that already and that any flowery language about Mary must be understood as applying in that context.

Usagi
 
Let me add that “Mediatrix” is simply a statement of Mary’s intercessory role. It does not mean that we think she is an additional mediator between God and man (Jesus alone holds this role), but that she mediates or intercedes between sinners and Jesus (as do all other saints).

It’s this invented “Mediatrix of all Graces” title that is not Church teaching, and recent popes have made it clear that the Church is not moving in this direction. Everything else you hear claimed on the subject, accept with a very large dose of salt.
 
bsroufek said:
My source is here:

catholicculture.org

It is official Church teaching.
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No, it is not. What you linked to was not an Ecumenical Council, nor was it an infallible papal statement. If you don’t understand how the Magisterium works, you should avoid making such false statements in the future.
 
The Popes approve/disapprove the Councils. The Popes are the last word in our Church.
The Popes invoke her as the Mediatrix of All Graces. That’s enough for me to proclaim her as such.
 
bsroufek said:
The Popes approve/disapprove the Councils. The Popes are the last word in our Church.
The Popes invoke her as the Mediatrix of All Graces. That’s enough for me to proclaim her as such.
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But it’s not enough to claim that it is official Church teaching.
 
From the original poster
  1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, *** 24, 1891, 196.
… it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us–for ‘grace and truth came through Jesus Christ’ [Jn 1.17]–nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.

What do you make of this - I’m not proposing sola scriptura but this just seems like bad theology - what am I missing
 
Were you given a Catechism of the Catholic Church as part of your RCIA studies? And what text are you using for class.
AND
Congrats on becoming a Catholic and praise for you taking it seriously.
AS
 
I have a catechism and am very comfortable with its description of Mary in it, but I’m finding all these writings by popes and saints that are making me very nervous
 
Mary and the Saints help us by more than just praying for us. If we reflect on their lives (devotion), we can come to better know them and their struggles and their successes in living a life in Christ, to help us to grow closer in our relationship to Christ.

Mary is said to be the greatest of the Saints because of her particular role in the life of Christ. You can check the Catechism for more information on Mary as Mediatrix.

No Mary, No Jesus
Know Mary, Know Jesus

But also keep in mind, No Jesus, No Mary. Mary is a gift to us from Jesus to help us to know him better.

Imagine getting to know your spouse without knowing their parents. Sure, you can do it, but isn’t it much easier if you do get to know their parents? Wouldn’t you feel closer to your spouse after getting to know their parents?

Something to keep in mind.
 
Welcome to the Catholic Church! I have to remind you, the word “catholic” means “universal.” You’re liable to find a slew of opinions on Mary, especially on some non-official websites and in personal blogs. Some of them are accurate. Some of them have a kernel of truth. Some of them are completely off-base.

If you’re comfortable with the teachings as given in the catechism, you don’t have anything to worry about. We reverence Mary for her role in the plan of salvation, put most simply. She is not a “fourth person” of the Trinity. She is not divine. She is human, the most perfect human that ever lived. We admire her for that, too. We ask her intercession in part because Jesus will not refuse His mother anything, provided it is for our spiritual good. She will always point us in the direction of Her Son.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: There is a lot of good information about the Church on the internet, and there is also plenty of really bad information, and some misinformation as well. Stick with official Church teachings. Even quotes, taken out of context, can be very misleading, especially when you are learning the basics of the faith. And there are plenty of lifelong Catholics who get misled by out-of-context quotes, and distort popular pious practices until those practices cross over to superstition.

You can read about some of the Church’s teachings (in full) on Mary on the Vatican website, as well as consult the catechism at the USCCB website.
 
When ever the world is in trouble Jesus always sends his mother MAry to warn us beforehand. She loves us and always wills us to go to her son not to her. Jesus has the power to forgive and Mary has the power, wisdom and love to help us on our journey to get closer to her son and into heven.

The holy Mary is like a lawyer. A very good lawyer who always pleads on behalf of us to her son. She has manged to save so many souls who would of been damned if she didn’t interciede for them. She’s not telling Jesus what to do because Jesus has the final say on who goes to heaven or hell. But just like you or me we always listen to our mothers and most of the time we can not say no to our mothers.
 
Thank you for your post but a lot of the things I’m reading are from saints and popes who really seem to elevate her to a point of our salvation.

Here is a quote that is apparently from Mary herself:

“Whosoever shall die wearing my Scapular shall not suffer the flames of Hell.”
  • Our Lady of Mount Carmel
Would Mary really state that salvation can actually come from wearing a scapular at the moment of death. That is so far from the teachings even of the Catholic Church let alone widely accepted views on the nature of salvation. What do I make of this?
 
Almost_convert said:
Thank you for your post but a lot of the things I’m reading are from saints and popes who really seem to elevate her to a point of our salvation.

Here is a quote that is apparently from Mary herself:

“Whosoever shall die wearing my Scapular shall not suffer the flames of Hell.”
  • Our Lady of Mount Carmel
Would Mary really state that salvation can actually come from wearing a scapular at the moment of death. That is so far from the teachings even of the Catholic Church let alone widely accepted views on the nature of salvation. What do I make of this?
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You have to remember that if we attribute any part of our salvation as being from Mary, it always has to do with Jesus. Mary is nothing without Jesus. Salvation comes from Jesus alone. Mary and the Saints only help us get to Jesus. This is what the popes and Saints say, though it may be difficult to see that upfront.

I can say that my brother has a hand in my salvation by reintroducing me to Jesus after my time away. Just keep it in your mind that everything that we do revolves around Jesus. Everything is attributed to God.
 
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