Confused on Oneness?

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Is everyone confused about what Oneness people believe or do you really understand the position??
 
This is a doctrine that comes from revelation and is not accessible to human reason.For example, Jesus says in Luke 10:22 and Matthew 11:27
No one knows the Son but the Father, and no one knows the Father but the Son, and him to whom the Son shall reveal Him.
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One of the key points to understand the Trinity is this passage. The relation of the Father to the Son is the knowledge they have of one another.

God is one in nature with three person.

Nature is what God is. One
Person is who God is. Three

You can also see the equality and union of nature between the Son and the Father in John 15:16, 10:30, and 10:38
All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine…I and the Father are one…The Father is in me and I in the Father.
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The Father and Son are also identical in operation (e.g. what they do) see John 5:17 and 5:19.
My Father works until now and I work…Whatsoever things He [the Father] does, these the Son also does in like manner.
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The son is equal to the Father, but he shares the divine nature with the Father in a manner that this nature is received. See John 5:19-23
The Son cannot do anything of His own impulse, He can only do what he sees his father doing. (NB. Action is a principle of nature in the sense that a person does what his nature allows.)
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The doctrine has been received and elaborated by the church by carefully mulling over what Jesus said about Himself, the Holy Spirit, and the Father. As the centuries passed, people would propose different ways of interpreting his words, and each time they did this, the church would pass judgment on what they were teaching and identify if what they said was in accordance with the faith of the church and the teachings found in scriptures.

It is a profound mystery, and although we cannot arrive at it by reason, we can still apply reason to what has been said in order to better understand what our Lord has revealed about Himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Ut
 
Here is another way of looking at it:

The Trinity is a mystery of the faith. You get hints of the Trinity in the Old Testament. For example in Genesis, you see God’s spirit over the waters. There is talk of God as Father, and there is talk of the Wisdom of God.

In the New Testament, the nature of God is revealed in its fullness. The Bible is God’s self-revelation in the incarnation. God is Father, Son (the Word, or Wisdom of God), and Holy Spirit. They are three distinct persons, but they have one nature.

How can this be? Well, one big hint is that human beings were created in the image and likeness of God. This has to be our starting point to understand the Trinity, because no other created being was made in His own image.

But here is where the mystery really kicks in. Human beings are finite. We have a body that came from our parents, that had a beginning, and grows old and dies. God is Eternal, he is Infinite, and so if God had a body, it would fill everything. We would be somehow living in, or a part of this massive blob god, or jelly god. If you believe that, you are a pantheist. But as Christians, we believe that God is the creator of heaven and earth. He is not heaven and earth.

So for the sake of continuing this argument, let’s cross out the idea that God has a body and senses, like us. (Also setting aside the incarnation for the moment.)

What is left? Well, human beings have something that animals don’t have. We have a memory, and an intellect, and we have a will.

Our **memory **is kind of a repository of all that we have been. Our **intellect **is our active thinking about things and ourselves. We can think about the past, the present, and the future. And we can also **will **things, and do things, like write an email, build a church, help our neighbor.

Memory, intellect, and will are not corporeal things. They are spiritual. Memory, intellect, and will also sum up who we are as embodied persons. One person, has these three faculties.

Now apply these three things to God.

God is infinite and eternal, therefore His **memory **contains past, present, future all at once. God must know himself. He must be self-aware, if he is like us, therefore he must have an intellect, and that intellect must be eternal. And if he also knows himself, he must also have a will. This will is God’s love.

Again, this analogy can only take us so far, because we are finite and God is infinite. But if God created us in our image, then God the Father could be like our memory, God the Son, could be like our intellect, because he is the word of God, the self-expression of God, the self-revelation of God. And God the Father and God the Son love one another. They are a communion of persons. And that **love **is so infinite and eternal that it is the third person of the Trinity: the Holy Spirit. And that is how we have one God (nature) and three persons.

Hope this helps.

God bless.
 
It’s enough to know they reject the firm and clear teaching of the Church.
 
A rejection of the Trinity and an error concerning the deity of Jesus…
 
upciguy26 said:
Is everyone confused about what Oneness people believe or do you really understand the position??
Click to expand...
Oneness Penecostals believe in Modalism (also called Sabellianism), which is the belief that God is only one person who manifests Himself in one of three modes–the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. They believe that God is never three persons at the same time, but is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son and sometimes the Holy Spirit. You can read more about this heresy here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

and here:

catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp

An easy way to show a Ones Pentecostal his error (since he believes the Bible is the inerrant word of God) is to have him read Matthew, chapter 3:

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
(Matthew 3:16-17)
After he reads this, ask him how God can be only one person when the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all appear at the same time during Jesus’ baptism.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Oneness Penecostals believe in Modalism (also called Sabellianism), which is the belief that God is only one person who manifests Himself in one of three modes–the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. They believe that God is never three persons at the same time, but is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son and sometimes the Holy Spirit. You can read more about this heresy here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

and here:

catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp

An easy way to show a Ones Pentecostal his error (since he believes the Bible is the inerrant word of God) is to have him read Matthew, chapter 3:

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
(Matthew 3:16-17)
After he reads this, ask him how God can be only one person when the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all appear at the same time during Jesus’ baptism.
Click to expand...
Pardon the pun here, but you sir are confused as to what oneness actually is. The oneness doctrine is NOT Sabellianism. Oneness people believe God has manifested himself in three ways, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and that all the fullness of God dwelt in Christ Jesus.

Another words oneness people teach Jesus was God almighty in Human flesh as well as the Son of God.
 
utunumsint said:
Here is another way of looking at it:

The Trinity is a mystery of the faith. You get hints of the Trinity in the Old Testament. For example in Genesis, you see God’s spirit over the waters. There is talk of God as Father, and there is talk of the Wisdom of God.

In the New Testament, the nature of God is revealed in its fullness. The Bible is God’s self-revelation in the incarnation. God is Father, Son (the Word, or Wisdom of God), and Holy Spirit. They are three distinct persons, but they have one nature.

How can this be? Well, one big hint is that human beings were created in the image and likeness of God. This has to be our starting point to understand the Trinity, because no other created being was made in His own image.

But here is where the mystery really kicks in. Human beings are finite. We have a body that came from our parents, that had a beginning, and grows old and dies. God is Eternal, he is Infinite, and so if God had a body, it would fill everything. We would be somehow living in, or a part of this massive blob god, or jelly god. If you believe that, you are a pantheist. But as Christians, we believe that God is the creator of heaven and earth. He is not heaven and earth.

So for the sake of continuing this argument, let’s cross out the idea that God has a body and senses, like us. (Also setting aside the incarnation for the moment.)

What is left? Well, human beings have something that animals don’t have. We have a memory, and an intellect, and we have a will.

Our **memory **is kind of a repository of all that we have been. Our **intellect **is our active thinking about things and ourselves. We can think about the past, the present, and the future. And we can also **will **things, and do things, like write an email, build a church, help our neighbor.

Memory, intellect, and will are not corporeal things. They are spiritual. Memory, intellect, and will also sum up who we are as embodied persons. One person, has these three faculties.

Now apply these three things to God.

God is infinite and eternal, therefore His **memory **contains past, present, future all at once. God must know himself. He must be self-aware, if he is like us, therefore he must have an intellect, and that intellect must be eternal. And if he also knows himself, he must also have a will. This will is God’s love.

Again, this analogy can only take us so far, because we are finite and God is infinite. But if God created us in our image, then God the Father could be like our memory, God the Son, could be like our intellect, because he is the word of God, the self-expression of God, the self-revelation of God. And God the Father and God the Son love one another. They are a communion of persons. And that **love **is so infinite and eternal that it is the third person of the Trinity: the Holy Spirit. And that is how we have one God (nature) and three persons.

Hope this helps.

God bless.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent explanation of oneness too. As you explain we have Memory, Intellect, and Love… all in our same person. It can be used for either Trinity or Oneness discussion.
 
utunumsint said:
This is a doctrine that comes from revelation and is not accessible to human reason.For example, Jesus says in Luke 10:22 and Matthew 11:27

One of the key points to understand the Trinity is this passage. The relation of the Father to the Son is the knowledge they have of one another.

God is one in nature with three person.

Nature is what God is. One
Person is who God is. Three

You can also see the equality and union of nature between the Son and the Father in John 15:16, 10:30, and 10:38

The Father and Son are also identical in operation (e.g. what they do) see John 5:17 and 5:19.

The son is equal to the Father, but he shares the divine nature with the Father in a manner that this nature is received. See John 5:19-23

The doctrine has been received and elaborated by the church by carefully mulling over what Jesus said about Himself, the Holy Spirit, and the Father. As the centuries passed, people would propose different ways of interpreting his words, and each time they did this, the church would pass judgment on what they were teaching and identify if what they said was in accordance with the faith of the church and the teachings found in scriptures.

It is a profound mystery, and although we cannot arrive at it by reason, we can still apply reason to what has been said in order to better understand what our Lord has revealed about Himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Ut
Click to expand...
Just think if Jesus’ personal distinction from the Father is only because of his incarnation… then what doctrine do you have?
 
upciguy26 said:
Oneness confirms Jesus is Jehovah in human flesh… is that therefore the error you prepose?
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Indeed it is.

The Trinity is three persons in one God, not all three in one person.
upciguy26 said:
Just think if Jesus’ personal distinction from the Father is only because of his incarnation
Click to expand...
… then what doctrine do you have?But this is not so. Genesis 1:26 “And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness:…” then consider, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made…10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

There’s more to this…but this is a good point at which to start.
 
upciguy26 said:
Oneness confirms Jesus is Jehovah in human flesh… is that therefore the error you prepose?
Click to expand...
Trinity is one God in three persons. To the extent that you deviate from the divine Catholic Faith, you are in error.
 
upciguy26 said:
Just think if Jesus’ personal distinction from the Father is only because of his incarnation… then what doctrine do you have?
Click to expand...
Did I say that? I hope not. 🙂 Can you explain what you mean further? I don’t think the Catholic church has ever held this position.

Thanks
Ut
 
Church_Militant said:
Indeed it is.

The Trinity is three persons in one God, not all three in one person.But this is not so. Genesis 1:26 “And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness:…” then consider, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made…10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

There’s more to this…but this is a good point at which to start.
Click to expand...
Word is not scripturally a person, check out 1 John 1:1-2 which calls the Word which was with the Father eternal life. Eternal life is an aspect, not an individual. God’s Widsom is part of Him, not another one like him. These scriptures do not indicate a plurality of persons.

Let us make man, check out Jewish explanation on Moses’ writings…

the very next verse says God made man his own image. So if an "us’ exists within God, that US is a He.
 
SPH1 said:
Trinity is one God in three persons. To the extent that you deviate from the divine Catholic Faith, you are in error.
Click to expand...
Then explain why you never see Jesus talking to God before his incarnation? 🙂
 
utunumsint said:
Did I say that? I hope not. 🙂 Can you explain what you mean further? I don’t think the Catholic church has ever held this position.

Thanks
Ut
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The interaction between God and Christ only shows up after His incarnation. To be incarnate means you take on the form of man, etc… The Wisdom or Word of God therefore took on the mind of a man, a real person which is shown to be the Christ, the Son of God.
 
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