confused!

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicAnon
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CatholicAnon

Guest
I know that gay marriage is wrong and all, I’m a devout Catholic along with my family, but what happens when to naturally gay men( born male with female hormones) actually love each other? I’m not gay, but being young in this modern world makes me confused. It feels like we’re just telling them not to love. Help!
 
Men are not born with female hormones. Gay men do not have an excess of estrogen. And having same-sex attraction means that one will have to stay chaste for life, as acting on those desires is grave sin. It is a heavy cross but there is no other way for them to stay away from sin.
 
Men are not born with female hormones. Gay men do not have an excess of estrogen. And having same-sex attraction means that one will have to stay chaste for life, as acting on those desires is grave sin. It is a heavy cross but there is no other way for them to stay away from sin.
There are, often, chromosomal inconsistencies. It is possible for a baby to carry an extra gene (X or Y) or even three X and one Y, etc. This creates various abnormalities. Some are visible (to the naked eye or through tests), some are not. There are men who have ovaries. There are women whose genitals are abnormal because they carry an extra gene. On top of that, congenital complications as the baby develops in the womb can cause all sorts of complex endocrinological problems that involve the adrenal glands, the thyroid, the gonads, etc. Science does not know what causes same sex attraction (legitimate, not recreational, which also exists). Is it inherited, is it a genetic flaw that is inherited (dominant or recessive) - and there does appear to be some indication this is possible (in families where true homosexuals exist in multiple numbers). Is it environmental? I think there may very well be homosexual men who carry “estrogen” if titer is done by endocrinologist, just as there are women who carry testosterone (well, actually ever woman has some of that).

Unfortunately, sex is an enormous burden. For some it is basically meaningless; for others it is insatiable; and yet for others, it is a constant thorn in the flesh (no pun intended). So a man or woman who recognizes that he/she is afflicted with this problem has then to make a serious decision: act on it, or refrain from sexual activity outside heterosexual marriage. This cannot be an easy decision. Biology is a strong force and for some the sexual impulse is overpowering, even overpowering reason and faith, and we don’t know why. And we don’t know how to help: at least we don’t, I think there are organizations that are designed explicitly to assist those in this predicament.
 
There are, often, chromosomal inconsistencies. It is possible for a baby to carry an extra gene (X or Y) or even three X and one Y, etc. This creates various abnormalities. Some are visible (to the naked eye or through tests), some are not. There are men who have ovaries. There are women whose genitals are abnormal because they carry an extra gene. On top of that, congenital complications as the baby develops in the womb can cause all sorts of complex endocrinological problems that involve the adrenal glands, the thyroid, the gonads, etc. Science does not know what causes same sex attraction (legitimate, not recreational, which also exists). Is it inherited, is it a genetic flaw that is inherited (dominant or recessive) - and there does appear to be some indication this is possible (in families where true homosexuals exist in multiple numbers). Is it environmental? I think there may very well be homosexual men who carry “estrogen” if titer is done by endocrinologist, just as there are women who carry testosterone (well, actually ever woman has some of that).

Unfortunately, sex is an enormous burden. For some it is basically meaningless; for others it is insatiable; and yet for others, it is a constant thorn in the flesh (no pun intended). So a man or woman who recognizes that he/she is afflicted with this problem has then to make a serious decision: act on it, or refrain from sexual activity outside heterosexual marriage. This cannot be an easy decision. Biology is a strong force and for some the sexual impulse is overpowering, even overpowering reason and faith, and we don’t know why. And we don’t know how to help: at least we don’t, I think there are organizations that are designed explicitly to assist those in this predicament.
These cases are VERY rare. VERY rare. So why bring it up.
 
I will quote some parts of this article.

Recently, Linda Waite and Maggie Gallagher reviewed the published literature on marriage and presented their findings in a book entitled “The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better Off Financially.” The evidence is clear. Married people are better off than single or divorced people. The better the marriage, the stronger the “marriage effect” on physical and mental health, longevity, and prosperity.

Heterosexual marriage has these benefits, and it is what the scientific studies have looked at. Heterosexual couples who cohabitate - who live together without marriage - do not enjoy most of these benefits of marriage, and there is no data showing similar benefits for same-sex couples. We don’t know whether same-sex couples would enjoy any of these benefits, and there are reasons to think they would not.

There is evidence that sexual complementarity is necessary. Philosophers have written that loneliness is part of the human condition and that loneliness occurs because, deep down, we all realize that neither a man by himself nor a woman by herself is biologically completely human. Each lacks the perfections and capabilities of the opposite sex, and in that sense each is incomplete-and lonely-without the other. Psychologists have shown that men and women differ in aggression and general activity level, types of cognitive strength, sensory sensitivity, and sexual behavior. These differences matter both spiritually and physically, for without the complementarity between a man and a woman on all these levels, the deepest forms of union are not possible.

Furthermore, sexual complementarity between man and woman makes possible another feature of marriage: the giving of life. The love between man and woman is designed to call new human life into existence and in so doing make the shared life of the couple more abundantly fulfilling. It does not always produce new life, but that is what it is designed to do. Unfortunately this aspect is blurred in the modern-day experience of marriage as two mortal blows have been struck: contraception and abortion. Only holy matrimony as preserved for centuries in the Church teaches these basic tenets as essential aspects - from this in fact comes the very term “matrimony”, incorporating the words “mother” and “task”. This union was intrinsically oriented towards the giving of life, and dignified the spouse and the mother.

Sexuality has two aspects: the procreative (bringing forth children) and the unitive (strengthening the union of the couple). Artificially separating the unitive from the procreative brings discord to a marriage, distorts the relationship between husband and wife, and ends up harming their unity as spouses. There is a disturbing parallel to same-sex marriage in the situation of couples who simply choose not to have children. In the sexual act, the language of the body says, “I give myself to you completely, without reservation or condition.” But sometimes that statement is a lie. Sometimes one or both do not give themselves completely to the other but instead use the other selfishly, as a pleasure object.

Marriage is about more than just the feelings of two people. Feelings are important, but they aren’t the whole of it. We all know that feelings change and that any marriage has its ups and downs. Marriage does involve very personal feelings, but this does not mean that it is merely a private matter. Whether it succeeds or fails, a marriage has a huge impact on the couple, their children, those around them, and the entire society. And it takes more than emotions to hold a marriage together.

I conclude with a word of warning: many today speak of a “right” to marry, yet few realize that the very act of re-definition of marriage is extremely harmful to family and society. Just look at what legal divorce and abortion have accomplished. The fight of “L” and G" for a further re-definition of marriage to include “two consenting adults” is a crack in an already unstable dam: for it will be only a matter of times before the “B” brings forth the case that someone who is attracted to both a male and a female has the right to have two partners and marry them, as long as there is mutual consent. This will strike at the last valid tenet of marriage: monogamy. And I believe it is only a matter of time before we get there.

As for the argument that “we are just telling not to love”, it reminds me of the trailer of a recent comedy in which someone, told that company rules do not allow for dating, asks: “Does a one-night stand constitute dating?” and then: “So we are saying no to love?” I think the word does not mean what we think it means. Love is not just love. I love my parents, my girlfriend, my brothers in the faith, what I study, what I ate for lunch, as well as my computer. When I love a spouse, that is a very, very special love. Anyone who thinks that teaching our children to avoid premarital or extramarital sexual intercourse is telling not to love clearly has not understood the love that constitutes someone’s calling to marriage - where by marriage I mean holy matrimony, and not the relativist trend of this or that time and culture.
 
Most gay people do not have these abnormalities. I am not even sure how many transgendered people have chromosomal abnormalities. What we do know about transgendered folks is that for some reason they hate their bodies and wish to mutilate them. Instead of embracing their assigned gender, they want to destroy it. They cannot simply be a boy who likes dolls or a girl who like cars, they want to change their bodies to be something they will never actually be. Even if they “look” like the other gender, they cannot reproduce or change their genetic code. It is a very sad situation and we need to pray for them.

No gay gene has been found yet. There have been lots of human genome mapping, studies, etc. That is not to say that one never will be found, but there is a good chance that there is no gay gene because of the advances we have so far.

What has been found is things from early childhood when gender identity sets in. Talking to people who counsel folks with unwanted same-sex attraction, for some reason they did not bond with or relate to their same-sex parent.

Example: our culture values strong, athletic boys. Maybe a father was athletic but his son was more of a quiet, artistic type. Maybe he drops a ball and his father gets upset, lovingly, but the boy remembers this. He does not relate to the male gender. In elementary school, he plays with girls instead of boys. When puberty hits (the real hormones kick in, not the hand-holding, sharing, little kid stuff), like the girls, he becomes attracted to boys.

Lesbians are a bit more complex. Some of them did not relate to their mothers. Some had mothers who were emotionally absent. Some had mothers who were abused so they became “tough” so they would not themselves grow up to be abused by their partner. Some were themselves abused by males but they still crave intimacy so they decided to be with girls instead.

There might be a biological factor from the womb, certain hormones that affect whether or not a person is likely to be gay. But not much is known about this and there are a lot of inconsistencies, like identical twins where one is gay and the other isn’t… same womb, same genes.

And even if there is a gay gene found, there are also genes that make one prone to addiction or alcoholism. Maybe even certain kinds of mental illness. But just because one is genetically predisposed to something does not make the behavior right. There is a difference between attribute (the way someone looks) and behavior (the way someone acts). We are not robots and can choose to act on urges or not to act on them.
 
It feels like we’re just telling them not to love.
True love means helping someone go to Heaven. If I was to talk someone out of engaging in homosexual acts, it is out of concern for their soul. I want everyone to go to Heaven.

IMO The bottom line is, perhaps someone has temptations, it is a fallen world. But it is not necessary to act on them. Sinning is a form of self abuse (this applies to any and every sin). One can not know true happiness when they are abusing themselves. If a person with SSA caves and has homosexual sex, they can go to confession. God knows we all cave and that is why he gives us confession. But there is a difference between struggling with sin and trying to turn your life around and screaming at the roof top that sin is OK

It is very sad that society has bullied people into not speaking out against homosexual behaviour. NOTE I said behaviour, not temptation
 
Our Lord commanded us to love one another, but that doesn’t mean that we all need to have relations with one another. Marriage between a man and a woman was given to us by God for the begetting and raising of children. Homosexuality is a cross, like a disease, that some men and women must bear for all of their lives. If they offer up this suffering to God, they can save themselves and other souls from Hell.
 
Another thing to consider is that prior to 1973, homosexuality was considered to be a mental illness by the medical community. In my opinion, we did people with SSA a real harm by declassifying it as such.

People with homosexual inclinations are statistically more likely to suffer from depression, addiction and drug abuse, suicide, domestic abuse (in homosexual relationships) and a myriad of other miseries. And that makes sense from a starting point of mental illness. Personally, I see the same personal markers - extreme sensitivity to criticism; emotional neediness; that their sexual orientation is the first means by which they identify themselves.

So… when someone tells me they are gay, I become hyperalert to how I am treating them, because they , and I need to treat them with extra care and compassion, while not condoning or supporting the disordered behavior. Just how I deal with it, and I have to interact with SSA persons quite often in my profession.

So for the state to sanction actions brought on by mental illness by slapping a label of marriage onto a relationship that is harmful to both parties involved, is not showing a concern for the well-being of those persons.
 
I know that gay marriage is wrong and all, I’m a devout Catholic along with my family, but what happens when to naturally gay men( born male with female hormones) actually love each other? I’m not gay, but being young inuiuu this modern world makes me confused. It feels like we’re just telling them not to love. Help!
No one can find true, deep, and lasting happiness through sin. It doesn’t matter what the sin is, if we encourage and endorse sinful behavior we are not loving our neighbor, instead we do them a disservice.

Only by following Christ, and encountering the living God, can we find our true purpose in life. Everyone, whether attracted to the opposite sex or same sex, is called to chastity,and chastity, lived in God’s plan, leads to happiness!
 
I know that gay marriage is wrong and all, I’m a devout Catholic along with my family, but what happens when to naturally gay men( born male with female hormones) actually love each other? I’m not gay, but being young in this modern world makes me confused. It feels like we’re just telling them not to love. Help!
Telling them not to love? for starters, there are many different kinds of “Love” when a man cheats on his wife (commits adultery) would you say that he acted on love? when people act sexually immoral, it’s not out of love. It’s about appeasing their own sexual desires.

Secondly, Same sex marriage doesn’t legalise a homosexual union, it publicly recognises it as equivalent to a heterosexual union, which it obviously isn’t. To think that would mean to ignore the basic human anatomy of men and women and their sexual compatibility and complementarity with one another. To think that would be the complete lack of all common sense.

Thirdly, if people try to play the “discrimination” game, than just place it back on them for denying polygamists and incestuous relationships the rights to marriage. Because if we cannot force our definition of marriage being between a man and a woman onto them, than what right do they have to force their belief of marriage being between two people onto those in a polygamist union? the arguments in support for same sex marriage are completely hypocritical and contradictory.

If you would like some more arguments in opposing same sex marriage please go here to some of my previous posts - forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10891636&postcount=6 & forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10891638&postcount=7
No one can find true, deep, and lasting happiness through sin. It doesn’t matter what the sin is, if we encourage and endorse sinful behavior we are not loving our neighbor, instead we do them a disservice.

Only by following Christ, and encountering the living God, can we find our true purpose in life. Everyone, whether attracted to the opposite sex or same sex, is called to chastity,and chastity, lived in God’s plan, leads to happiness!
Absolutely 👍

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
No one can find true, deep, and lasting happiness through sin. It doesn’t matter what the sin is, if we encourage and endorse sinful behavior we are not loving our neighbor, instead we do them a disservice.

Only by following Christ, and encountering the living God, can we find our true purpose in life. Everyone, whether attracted to the opposite sex or same sex, is called to chastity,and chastity, lived in God’s plan, leads to happiness!
👍

OP, you aren’t telling them “not to love”, rather TO love in the fullest meaning of “love”. What you are telling them NOT to do is “lust”.
 
We all have restrictions on how we can show love and whom we can marry. One can not marry a close family member, one can not marry a child, and one can not marry someone who is already married.

So, saying they are not free to marry is incorrect. They are not free to marry whomever they want, and neither am I.

If a man ‘loves’ other men, he is called to chastity, just like I would be if I were single.
 
I would not look at it as them being called “not to love”. I would look at it as them being called to make sacrifices - specifically, being called to remain chaste.

But, you say, that’s WRONG! And it’s so UNFAIR! You’re denying them the right to LOVE! You’re asking them to sacrifice when no one else HAS TO!

Well, let’s look at the Church’s teaching. The Church recognizes four distinct vocations: married life, single life, religious life, and consecrated life. Let’s examine each of these vocations in greater detail.
  1. Religious life - this means becoming a priest, brother, or sister. These people do not marry but live singly or in community. They work for the betterment of the world through preaching, teaching, helping the poor, evangelizing, and ministering to the sick. They are called to forsake the earthly marriage for the heavenly marriage between Christ and the Church. Therefore, they are called to make a sacrifice.
  2. Consecrated life - this is a bridge between religious and single life. Consecrated men and women live in community and work toward the common good, as do people in religious orders. They, also, are called to forsake the married state. Therefore, they are called to make a sacrifice.
  3. Single persons in the world are called to live singly, in order to do work that, for whatever reason, they could not accomplish in the married state. They are called to forsake the married state but they are not called to religious or consecrate life. Therefore, they are called to make a double sacrifice - they do not have the companionship of a religious community, and they do not have the companionship of marriage.
  4. Married people are called to live with their spouse for the rest of their lives, in the hope of getting each other to heaven. They are called to be open to the transmission of new life, and to raise their children in the Faith in order to extend the spiritual life. Living with another person and raising children also requires that sacrifices be made. When you have a partner and children, you can’t just do what you want, when you want. You have to make sure the laundry is washed, the house is clean, there’s food in the cupboard, everybody went to the bathroom, everybody’s teeth are brushed, everybody’s lunch is made, etc. Even with a partner, you have to make sacrifices to meet the needs of your partner.
What all of these vocations have in common is SACRIFICE. It’s just that the sacrifices they require are different in each case.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top