Confusing relationship

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Caroline723

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So this is a bit of a long story but would really value some insight:

About four years ago I met a man and we dated for about 18 months. Our relationship was great in terms of personalities. We seemed to click on a rather profound level without requiring much effort to get there. I wanted to marry him. But he blew hot and cold with me, would profess love and then take it back. Would be warm and loving one day and cold and unempathetic the next. The relationship ended in a mess of frustration and pain. For the first year after, I tried to maintain no contact but we spoke a few times. Then, one year after we broke up he told me he was engaged to someone else. I was heartbroken.

In the fifteen months since then I had no contact with him or any mutual friends. I moved away and assumed he had married and life was well. I have done everything under the sun to move on: prayer, frequent sacraments, therapy, cutting myself off from sources of contact or info. But I have continued to feel such a hole in my heart though over time I grew accustomed to it and life went on. I have tried to be open to dating other men but honestly it has felt forced.

A month ago I received a long, apologetic email from him out of the blue. He sounded like a different person: humble, honest and full of self-reflection. There were things I had wanted to apologize to him for too but never contacted him because it wasn’t appropriate. So I emailed back an apology. He wrote back immediately and said that most of his greatest regrets in life were in regard to me and that he feels things might have been very different if he had tried harder. He implied that he had ended his engagement and would tell me about it later but that he attributed to me his not going down a path to ruin. And he asked to see me.

That started three weeks of emails texts and phone calls. We literally picked up right where we left off but this time he seemed emotionally right there, open and solidly interested. I got a sense from his emails that he had ended the engagement last summer; he said he had spent much of the past year writing and deleting emails to me. I had a trip back to his area planned for this past weekend and we made plans to meet up Friday to talk. Instead he had planned out this day of all the things I had asked him for but he would never do: a museum, Mass and a really nice dinner. We ended up talking till 5am. He told me he loved me. I saw him again Sunday and it was more of the same and by the end he was promising that we were going to be married soon. On Monday when I arrived at his house, something was wrong. He was cold and distant, the old personality. He told me that he felt ‘conflicted’ because he had just ended his engagement FOUR weeks ago. As in days before emailing me. I was floored. He had told me about the engagement but omitted that fact earlier. Anyhow he started back pedaling on everything he had been saying for the past few weeks to me, and said that he never expected to hear back from me on that first email and that afterward our discourse had taken on ‘a life of its own’. I felt sick, used, angry and devastated.

We are both in our 30s and serious Catholics. And it makes me sick that I could use words like ‘narcissistic’ and ‘sociopathic’ to describe him. I love him so deeply. What is wrong with me? Why didn’t God answer my prayers those two years to lift this attachment to him? I see that he is someone who I would always live in fear of being abandoned by and yet my heart still longs to be with him. I wrote to him a few days ago and laid it plainly that his behavior was dishonorable but I left the door open for reconciliation, by telling him that he is never to contact me again unless he is truly marriage-minded. I know I am insane to allow that. He has proved himself to be a liar. My heart refuses to give up hope that this part of him will be healed.
 
Dear girl, You are indeed insane to think of marrying this man - once you are married a new dimension of problems will open up, that will make this look like a walk in the park.

Not everyone is cut out for marriage - as it will be to the detriment of the partner. He really sounds as if he is one of these.

CUT! Move on. That doesn’t mean that you will forget what you loved about him, or lose the warm feelings he raised in you. It’s just that there isn’t enough to base a marriage on.
 
I agree. He sounds to me like someone who can’t be trusted. If you hurt now, it would only get worse if you went ahead and married him. It’s time to take stock in where you are and where you want to go. And that would mean seeing yourself as not in a relationship with him. You deserve better.
 
Dump him immediately and move on.

He is trouble. You deserve someone who is honest, warm and loving. He will not change so move on.
 
Forget him. Don’t be the victim. You should never get so wrapped up in one person whom you don’t know very well at all.
 
There is always two sides to a story and the truth is closer to the middle. I suggest being hesitant with advice without hearing both.
 
Caroline723 said:

“Instead he had planned out this day of all the things I had asked him for but he would never do: a museum, Mass and a really nice dinner.”

Holy cow!–when you dated for 18 months, a museum, Mass, and a nice dinner were unreasonable expectations on your part? Wow. I understand not being able to afford “a nice dinner” (depending how nice), but the other items are just terrible on his part.

As the commenters say on a different website, aim higher.

“We ended up talking till 5am. He told me he loved me. I saw him again Sunday and it was more of the same and by the end he was promising that we were going to be married soon. On Monday when I arrived at his house, something was wrong. He was cold and distant, the old personality. He told me that he felt ‘conflicted’ because he had just ended his engagement FOUR weeks ago. As in days before emailing me. I was floored. He had told me about the engagement but omitted that fact earlier. Anyhow he started back pedaling on everything he had been saying for the past few weeks to me, and said that he never expected to hear back from me on that first email and that afterward our discourse had taken on ‘a life of its own’. I felt sick, used, angry and devastated.”

Gah. It sounds like he enjoys reeling you in, but when he’s got you, he doesn’t want you.

“We are both in our 30s and serious Catholics. And it makes me sick that I could use words like ‘narcissistic’ and ‘sociopathic’ to describe him.”

I don’t think that language is unreasonable in this case. Run, run, run, and never take him back. He had his second chance.

“I love him so deeply. What is wrong with me? Why didn’t God answer my prayers those two years to lift this attachment to him?”

I’ve read that in psychology, the most powerful form of reinforcement is intermittent reinforcement. If a guy is nice to you all the time, you get used to it and maybe bored. But with a guy like this, sometimes he’s nice, sometimes he’s distant, and you just keep coming back and pleasing him in the hope that this time, he’ll be nice. It’s a very nasty system. Don’t blame yourself (and certainly don’t blame God) that this manipulative system of reinforcement works on you. Just see it for what it is and move on. And if he comes crawling back to you, don’t go for it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

Just imagine this stuff being used on your kids. Terrible!
 
Caroline:

I don’t think this guy is stable enough to continue with. It sounds like he is searching for “Mrs. Do What I Want, Be What I Want” etc. Move on as you were and tell him why.

There is something amiss here.
 
Caroline723,

I think I can empathize with some of what you have shared. I am sorry for your pain and confusion. Please continue to pray yourself, make use of the sacraments, and pray some more.

Jesus is always there for you. However, God often uses men and women to do His work. Do you have a person you can lean on now, with whom you can discuss this painful situation, hopefully face-to-face?

I will pray for you.
 
Rationally I can see how this relationship (for lack of a better word) has no future. And the thought of him treating potential children this way one day is what spurred me to end things with him the first time around. Ironically, he teaches children for a living and is very good at it. He’s charismatic, animated, creative, and he loves the attention and adulation by the kids.

I can do the right things externally; I appear to be a strong person. What is so discouraging is that internally I cannot break this attachment, and no amount of prayer or therapy has lessened that; they’ve just reinforced what I have done externally. I have a background of childhood abuse and a very unstable upbringing, and while I see clearly how I have been hard-wired to be attracted to similar personalities and that I have to be mindful of that, I feel the positive things that background produced in me are also my downfall. I can always find something lovable in each person I meet, I hate to see people suffering, I can usually forgive and forget over and over again, I have a strong sense of empathy, and tremendous hope. There are many lovable things about D, and I see his suffering; his behavior is so beneath his dignity. To give up hope that he can change is impossible; I think he wants to and I believe he has the capacity to do so. I don’t believe in soulmates, or that God has this grand plan for each of us, but the combination of him repeatedly returning to me, and me not being able to shake my feelings for him - what if this is our path in life? My father is similar to D (yes, a psychological cornucopia of issues), and while he spent 45 years making everyone miserable, now he seems to have mellowed, and has even started going to church (he’s not catholic). In the end, isn’t that what ultimately matters in life? In a lot of ways, I feel like the suffering I experienced in childhood prepared me to look past D’s issues and see the person that God created. I don’t feel blind to the type of life I have to look forward to with him.
 
Why would you long to be with someone who isn’t there for you?
 
This will be painful, but you need to move on. That this man’s engagement fell apart means another women somewhere grew wise to his tricks. You are idolizing his memory, and have first knowledge how wrong those memories are.

You may find counseling helpful to untangle the web of lies this relationship has entangled you in. You feel unable to move on, and that dating is “forced”, but there may be flawed assumptions you are making that an objective professional might help you uncover.
 
runningdude said:

“You may find counseling helpful to untangle the web of lies this relationship has entangled you in. You feel unable to move on, and that dating is “forced”, but there may be flawed assumptions you are making that an objective professional might help you uncover.”

Yes! The OP may discover that what makes this guy so attractive and “natural” for her is that she’s used to abuse, and he’s emotionally abusing her.

Love him from a safe distance and don’t take him back, no matter what.
 
Caroline.

This man is manipulating you and dragging you into his wake of destruction. It is not a relationship of equality and respect and cannot be of God.

You need to look after yourself first; please find some counselling with a local Catholic organization. There is only so much a forum like this can do.

God Bless.
 
Caroline,

I usually don’t like to judge people or give advice based on just one side of the story on an internet forum. But, based on what you have said, I think the below quote perfect sums what a relationship with him is (and would be about in the future).
he loves the attention and adulation by the kids.
He isn’t interested in entering into a serious relationship/marriage with a woman, he is interested in receiving the “attention and adulation” from women that he enjoys receiving from the kids. Once he has “accomplished his goal” of getting your (or another woman’s) attention and adulation, he gets bored and moves on to something fresh and new. He is not ready or mature enough to enter into a real relationship that moves beyond the “attention and adulation of me” stage. This type of behavior out of a man is fairly common for college boys to grow out of as they get older and become men. If he is already in his 30’s and still acting this way, it’s unlikely he will change.
 
Caroline,

I usually don’t like to judge people or give advice based on just one side of the story on an internet forum. But, based on what you have said, I think the below quote perfect sums what a relationship with him is (and would be about in the future).
he loves the attention and adulation by the kids.
He isn’t interested in entering into a serious relationship/marriage with a woman, he is interested in receiving the “attention and adulation” from women that he enjoys receiving from the kids. Once he has “accomplished his goal” of getting your (or another woman’s) attention and adulation, he gets bored and moves on to something fresh and new. He is not ready or mature enough to enter into a real relationship that moves beyond the “attention and adulation of me” stage. This type of behavior out of a man is fairly common for college boys to grow out of as they get older and become men. If he is already in his 30’s and still acting this way, it’s unlikely he will change.

I hate to be blunt, but, being a “serious Catholic” is not mutually exclusive from “being narcissistic.” We all have our flaws and sins and nobody is perfect. But, if you overlook this particular imperfection and continue with the relationship, you will have much more heartbreak ahead of you than you already have.

As others have said (assuming there isn’t a lot more to this story than you have let on), cut and run.
 
I appreciate very much everyone’s comments.

I have been through therapy, and it did me a lot of good. I am well aware of the impact of my past on my present. I suppose a person can’t get too much therapy but I got to a point where it felt redundant, and I was ready to start applying to life what I had learned. And in my past, I feel like God protected me from going down bad paths, especially in the search of love, by always making me keenly aware why I was seeking this or attracted to that. That is part of why this situation with D has disturbed my interior peace so much. I cannot shake the belief that this is unfinished. I was in a relationship for five years in my 20s, and have zero attachment or sense of nostalgia. But I cannot break or lessen this love for D, and I feel this sense of despair that this is going to be the defining relationship of my life. For a month, he seemed genuinely happy, and I was so happy and peaceful. There was an ease to this love. I can’t comprehend how a person can fake that. And if I allow myself self-pity, after experiencing suffering at a young age, and then to see this happy life in front of me, and then taken away, is heartbreaking. This relationship was the first time I ever really felt I was living my vocation.
 
You know what the right answer is. I think you probably do need to keep doing the therapy, as long as it takes to get you to the point where you don’t want him anymore.

Fool’s gold looks like gold and there are various poisonous mushrooms that look like very tasty mushrooms. Being superficially appealing but in fact worthless or dangerous is quite common in the natural world. There are one or two posters here who are married to men with narcissistic tendencies, and it’s quite painful, even when their husbands want to do the right thing. It’s very painful to be married to somebody who doesn’t really think you matter at all, or are entitled to the same things he regards as his right. It’s even more painful when you have kids together. The sort of adulation from kids that your old boyfriend is used to at his job is exactly the sort of thing that one’s own children do not supply as consistently. And you can’t just send your kids home at the end of the day–working with kids and having your own are quite different as skill sets.

I was reading somewhere recently that not wanting closure is the very best kind of closure there is.

Best wishes! I know how hard it is!
 
There are one or two posters here who are married to men with narcissistic tendencies, and it’s quite painful, even when their husbands want to do the right thing. It’s very painful to be married to somebody who doesn’t really think you matter at all, or are entitled to the same things he regards as his right. It’s even more painful when you have kids together.
:sad_yes:

All I can say is run while you can. Your feelings are not a good metric and therapy, even if you feel you’ve done it all, can be helpful for you to figure out why. My husband is not severely narcissistic, and we’ve made some progress, but it still stinks being stuck in the “when you’re good supply, I’ll treat you well, and when you’re not, you’re dead to me” cycle. And same goes for the kids. He loves the “idea” of fatherhood, and can be good with the kids for a while, but the ins and outs and daily trials really wear on him. He has higher expectations of them then they can meet, and he expects that they can meet his demands for supply, rather than understanding that his role is to supply care and love for them, with zero expectation of it back (my kids are almost 3 and 9.5 months). And this is a man who’s aware that he is narcissistic, is relatively mild on the spectrum, and is actively trying to get better.

This man sounds like he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing, or doesn’t care what impact it has. I’d run, run, run before you’re stuck.
 
So this is a bit of a long story but would really value some insight:

About four years ago I met a man and we dated for about 18 months. Our relationship was great in terms of personalities. We seemed to click on a rather profound level without requiring much effort to get there. I wanted to marry him. But he blew hot and cold with me, would profess love and then take it back. Would be warm and loving one day and cold and unempathetic the next. The relationship ended in a mess of frustration and pain. For the first year after, I tried to maintain no contact but we spoke a few times. Then, one year after we broke up he told me he was engaged to someone else. I was heartbroken.

In the fifteen months since then I had no contact with him or any mutual friends. I moved away and assumed he had married and life was well. I have done everything under the sun to move on: prayer, frequent sacraments, therapy, cutting myself off from sources of contact or info. But I have continued to feel such a hole in my heart though over time I grew accustomed to it and life went on. I have tried to be open to dating other men but honestly it has felt forced.

A month ago I received a long, apologetic email from him out of the blue. He sounded like a different person: humble, honest and full of self-reflection. There were things I had wanted to apologize to him for too but never contacted him because it wasn’t appropriate. So I emailed back an apology. He wrote back immediately and said that most of his greatest regrets in life were in regard to me and that he feels things might have been very different if he had tried harder. He implied that he had ended his engagement and would tell me about it later but that he attributed to me his not going down a path to ruin. And he asked to see me.

That started three weeks of emails texts and phone calls. We literally picked up right where we left off but this time he seemed emotionally right there, open and solidly interested. I got a sense from his emails that he had ended the engagement last summer; he said he had spent much of the past year writing and deleting emails to me. I had a trip back to his area planned for this past weekend and we made plans to meet up Friday to talk. Instead he had planned out this day of all the things I had asked him for but he would never do: a museum, Mass and a really nice dinner. We ended up talking till 5am. He told me he loved me. I saw him again Sunday and it was more of the same and by the end he was promising that we were going to be married soon. On Monday when I arrived at his house, something was wrong. He was cold and distant, the old personality. He told me that he felt ‘conflicted’ because he had just ended his engagement FOUR weeks ago. As in days before emailing me. I was floored. He had told me about the engagement but omitted that fact earlier. Anyhow he started back pedaling on everything he had been saying for the past few weeks to me, and said that he never expected to hear back from me on that first email and that afterward our discourse had taken on ‘a life of its own’. I felt sick, used, angry and devastated.

We are both in our 30s and serious Catholics. And it makes me sick that I could use words like ‘narcissistic’ and ‘sociopathic’ to describe him. I love him so deeply. What is wrong with me? Why didn’t God answer my prayers those two years to lift this attachment to him? I see that he is someone who I would always live in fear of being abandoned by and yet my heart still longs to be with him. I wrote to him a few days ago and laid it plainly that his behavior was dishonorable but I left the door open for reconciliation, by telling him that he is never to contact me again unless he is truly marriage-minded. I know I am insane to allow that. He has proved himself to be a liar. My heart refuses to give up hope that this part of him will be healed.
Either he enjoys playing a game with people and maybe even doesn’t realize he does it or is just a narcissitic creep either way your well rid of him. Move on and let him go. You can’t help someone like this because either they won’t or can’t admit they have a problem and can’t commit to a Christ centered relationship. No Christian treats another Christian this way. Let him go. The highest form of love is letting go. You can’t fix him. Take it from me you can’t change them. My ex broke up with me because he couldn’t commit and just wanted to be friends…then he blamed me when I couldn’t do it and acts like I did him a personal injury whenever I run into him even though it’s been 6 years…I feel sorry for this type that are stuck in thier own world. Move on and free yourself.
 
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