Confusion in Genesis

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patrick457 said:
I think you’re confusing ‘factuality’ with ‘truth’ here.
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The first fact which confuses most people is that the Book of Genesis has 50 chapters.

The second confusing fact is that it is the first three Chapters of Genesis which are the basis for foundational Catholic Doctrines.

The third most confusing fact is that many people do not understand that what is important about those first three Chapters of Genesis are the duly declared doctrines of the Catholic Church.
 
grannymh said:
The first fact which confuses most people is that the Book of Genesis has 50 chapters.

The second confusing fact is that it is the first three Chapters of Genesis which are the basis for foundational Catholic Doctrines.

The third most confusing fact is that many people do not understand that what is important about those first three Chapters of Genesis are the duly declared doctrines of the Catholic Church.
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And the fourth confusing fact is that, there were originally no chapters and verses in Genesis, or for that matter, any biblical book. 😛
 
grannymh said:
The second confusing fact is that it is the first three Chapters of Genesis which are the basis for foundational Catholic Doctrines.

The third most confusing fact is that many people do not understand that what is important about those first three Chapters of Genesis are the duly declared doctrines of the Catholic Church.
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And tha’s exactly what’s driving me away from the Catholic Church… or any religion 🤷

While I’m inclined to accept the existence of God and Christ, it is exactly the chapters of the Genesis that are the Hebraic retelling of Sumerian stories that are the basic foundation of the Catholic Church??? Even though these facts can’t be scientifically sustainable?? I don’t think so… :mad:

I would accept the Catholic Doctrine if the Church accepted the allegorical and open to interpretation character of these “chapters” 🤷 I think any dogmatism and fundamentalism is dangerous and should be avoided.

Sometimes I really understand people like Marcion so well…
 
minichibi said:
And tha’s exactly what’s driving me away from the Catholic Church… or any religion 🤷

While I’m inclined to accept the existence of God and Christ, it is exactly the chapters of the Genesis that are the Hebraic retelling of Sumerian stories that are the basic foundation of the Catholic Church??? Even though these facts can’t be scientifically sustainable?? I don’t think so… :mad:

I would accept the Catholic Doctrine if the Church accepted the allegorical and open to interpretation character of these “chapters” 🤷 I think any dogmatism and fundamentalism is dangerous and should be avoided.

Sometimes I really understand people like Marcion so well…
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If you really dig deep enough you will find that the Sumerian story is a corruption of the Hebrew.
 
buffalo said:
If you really dig deep enough you will find that the Sumerian story is a corruption of the Hebrew.
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Even though the Sumerians learned how to write thousands of years before the Hebrews and their stories dated as earlier than Genesis ?

The evidences, unfortunately, are in favor of the Sumerian authorship, but I’m totally willing to accept any convincing evidence that points to your view. Can you share some?
 
A fundamentalist reading of Scripture is not Catholic:
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM
The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem. Without saying as much in so many words, fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. It injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.
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The Church insists on humanity descending from one man and one woman - that is not fundamentalist interpretation, that is Church teaching.

The Church, however, does not teach that women came from man’s rib, that the creation took six days, or that evolution is a false doctrine (John Paul II described it as more than a theory) etc.
 
minichibi said:
Even though the Sumerians learned how to write thousands of years before the Hebrews and their stories dated as earlier than Genesis ?

The evidences, unfortunately, are in favor of the Sumerian authorship, but I’m totally willing to accept any convincing evidence that points to your view. Can you share some?
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What is the earliest known date for Sumerian writing?

Hebrew writing?
 
Let’s look at a couple of the Giglamesh vs Bible points:
  1. Size of ark
Bible - 450x75x45
Gig - 200x200x200 - ( a cube? probably not seaworthy)
  1. How did deity react to flood?
Bible - God is in control
Gig - gods ran away from waters
  1. How long did it rain?
Bible - 40 days
Gig - 7 days
  1. What was the roof made from?
Bible - wood
Gig - slate
  1. Who made the decision to flood?
Bible - God
Gig council of gods
  1. What happened after the flood?
Bible - God promised to destroy humanity by a flood ever again
Gig - gods quarrel with each other, god Ea lies to Enlil. Utnapishtim and wife given immortality like the gods

Bible - God tells Noah and his family to procreate
Gig - Ea and Mami created 14 human beings to procreate
  1. What was the reason for the flood?
Bible - people were wicked
Gig - people were nosiy

Bible - God is sorry He made men because of their wickedness
Gig - gods could not sleep
  1. When told about impending flood
Bible - Noah warned his neighbors
Gig - Told by Ea to lie to neighbors so that they would help build the ark

How was the ark launched?

Bible - by flood
Gig - pushed to the river

How long did flood last?

Bible - 370 days
Gig - 14 days

Giglamesh is a corruption of the Hebrew account.
 
I’m sorry, but I really fail to see how this proves that Gilgamesh is a corruption of Genesis.

More…

Bible - God tells Noah and his family to procreate
Gig - Ea and Mami created 14 human beings to procreate

that record even appears to be more coherent to explain the multi-ethnic world we live. 🤷
 
We don’t live in a multi-ethnic world. We basically we came from one woman, one man. We have four genetic sub-groups consonant with the four couples on Noah’s Ark. We have the Great Flood recounted universally, “multi-ethnically.” I think Moses, a prince of Egypt, got the Torah from the Egyptian archives where the texts were protected by ugly curses Moses was acute enough to realize were for the superstitious. I think the Hebrews were a remnant of the earliest monotheists, the universal religion of antiquity displaced by satanism, with stories of crazy gods wanting to enslave mankind; and corrupt ancestor worship after the Great Flood.
 
minichibi said:
Even though the Sumerians learned how to write thousands of years before the Hebrews and their stories dated as earlier than Genesis ?

The evidences, unfortunately, are in favor of the Sumerian authorship, but I’m totally willing to accept any convincing evidence that points to your view. Can you share some?
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The evidence doesn’t demonstrate Sumerian authorship and Hebrew copying; rather, it shows that the ancient Hebrews were aware of the Sumerian mythology. Therefore, the Hebrew story was constructed in a way that teaches the inspired truth that God had in mind, while using a format that would resonate with its intended audience. This doesn’t mean “copying” in the way that you’re asserting it – that the Hebrews were simply stealing material – but rather, that their creation epic was constructed to show the superiority of their belief system over the Sumerians. When the intended audience listened to the creation epic, the correspondences would have been obvious to them, and the differences – which demonstrated the teaching points that the human author was inspired to include – would have stood out in stark relief…!
 
buffalo said:
Let’s look at a couple of the Giglamesh vs Bible points:

Giglamesh is a corruption of the Hebrew account.
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You tried this exact argument back in January. 😉

It wasn’t convincing back then, either… :nope:
 
minichibi said:
And tha’s exactly what’s driving me away from the Catholic Church… or any religion 🤷

While I’m inclined to accept the existence of God and Christ, it is exactly the chapters of the Genesis that are the Hebraic retelling of Sumerian stories that are the basic foundation of the Catholic Church??? Even though these facts can’t be scientifically sustainable?? I don’t think so… :mad:

I would accept the Catholic Doctrine if the Church accepted the allegorical and open to interpretation character of these “chapters” 🤷 I think any dogmatism and fundamentalism is dangerous and should be avoided.

Sometimes I really understand people like Marcion so well…
Click to expand...
There is basically nothing wrong with ancient Sumerian or any cultural stories. They affirm human awareness that something beyond the natural environment existed from the beginning of human history. Genesis 1: 1 clearly states this ancient awareness of the supernatural.

The Catholic Church, over time, studies Scripture, writings of the early Church Fathers,
Tradition, subsequent theologians and so on. With the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit (Chapter 14, Gospel of John), the Church can define and declare doctrines based on Divine Revelation.

I am really not sure how familiar you are with the Catholic doctrines which flow from the first three chapters of Genesis, so I cannot specifically reply to your post.
 
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