Confusion over sin of the Holy Spirit

[Huiou_Theou]

Perhaps I can help: with a crude translation.

In Matthew 12:31 Jesus says –
δια τουτο λεγ-ω υμιν:
Through this I-AM-SAYING(continuously) to-you(many/all):

πασα αμαρτια και βλασφημια αφεθησεται τοις ανθρωποις
all sin and blasphemy will-be-forgiven to-(many/all) men

η δε του πνευματος βλασφημια ουκ αφεθησεται
but she/the of-the spirit blasphemy not will-be-forgiven.

through this, I am saying:
all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven to-all men
but the-mate of-the-spirit, blasphemy, will not be forgiven.

Those first words “through this” are very important, because Jesus is indicating that he is not saying something new – but summarizing the last statement. Either one is for or against him. But notice that Jesus says it in the present tense: “I AM saying”.

In Greek present tense typically means an on-going action – he is saying continuously the forgiveness will be given. And now, I notice that in the second part of verse 31, the word holy is not present.
Also I notice that the only possible female thing around is blasphemy itself.

The gender switches from female(she) to male/neuter of-the spirit – and that usually indicates a nuclear relationship/marriage. eg: the wife/husband of-the-spirit, blasphemy, will not be forgiven.

So – it is not one who blasphemes at a single time, but rather one who joins the spirit and blasphemy as a marriage.(eg: permanent).

The next statement intensifies the argument by expanding the reason. Matth 12:32
και ος εαν ειπη λογον κατα του υιου του ανθρωπου αφεθησεται αυτω ος

and he-who (perhaps) spoke [a] word against the-son-(I mean)-of-man will-be-forgiven him.

δ αν ειπη κατα του πνευματος του αγιου ουκ αφεθησεται αυτω ουτε εν τουτω τω αιωνι ουτε εν τω μελλοντι

but (in comparison to what I already said) (he-who) (again) spoke against the spirit of goodness/holiness not will-be-forgiven not-even in-this the/very age/world, not-even in the age/world-to-come.

It is the repeater of the offense, again-spoken, who is the target of the non-forgiveness at any time. Since Jesus is continuously offering forgiveness, the implication is the one speaking against the Holy Spirit must be doing it again and again.

eg: it is not possible to say that all the good Jesus does – may all be spoken against, because the BaalZebub can’t ALWAYS do good. At some point, saying good is evil Just because Jesus does it must be false and unforgivable.

if they imagine they will be justified in the next life (in calling his motives evil); they will find that still speaking against the good – will still not be forgivable.

The same is true today; those who repeatedly attribute evil motives to a good that Christians do – will not be able to do so forever with forgiveness. Saying good is evil is not a compatible marriage in the eyes of God. The word “good” is a synonym for Holy and for God. Therefore, eventually they will be guilty of calling God Evil.

That was kind of long, but did it help – or confuse?

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

The answers on this topic indicate that the sin is the rejection of forgiveness. If that was the case, then why did Jesus say that the sin would not BE forgiven. If the case is just the rejection of forgiveness, then the sin CAN be forgiven. This is what has really confused me.

 

[LionHeart777]

Alley ,

I struggled with this for a long season and ended up being medicated and diagnosed with OCD. I can understand the anxiety and fear you must be feeling

I believe this is a trick of Satan to make Christians feel like they have done this. Don’t fall for it, I used to have terrible thoughts (still do.) Eventually, I had to think positive, I realized that I must never think that I had committed this blasphemy…it is a way to defeat the trick of the enemy of our souls. Think about it everytime you fear that you did this; I have 2 choices–

1. give up, agree that you’ve committed this and accept the fact that you’ll be going to hell

or

1. Keep pressing, believe God is merciful (He is) and repent (when you sin) go to confession and seek Him.

DO NOT OBSESS OVER THIS! God does not want us to fear.

Trust me, I struggled with this pretty bad. I think the enemy loves to trip up Christians with this one as I read (or heard someone say) before. Read what the Church teaches about it and don’t let the enemy mess w/ you–expose him as the liar he is. I know it can be hard but keep fighting and keep believing and trusting God for His mercy. Be strong and be of good courage

Nick

 

[grannymh]

The answers on this topic indicate that the sin is the rejection of forgiveness. If that was the case, then why did Jesus say that the sin would not BE forgiven. If the case is just the rejection of forgiveness, then the sin CAN be forgiven. This is what has really confused me.

How about looking at humans as complex beings? How about looking at sin as complex? How about looking at pride, the wrong kind of pride as the basis of most sins?

 

[grannymh]

The answers on this topic indicate that the sin is the rejection of forgiveness. If that was the case, then why did Jesus say that the sin would not BE forgiven. If the case is just the rejection of forgiveness, then the sin CAN be forgiven. This is what has really confused me.

Please correct me, but it looks like something is missing in your post 21. There has to be the asking for forgiveness of a sin before the forgiveness is offered. Human actions are complex and often consist of stages or steps.

We are so used to viewing Jesus as forgiving the Prodigal Son that we sometimes forget that the Prodigal Son had to leave his sin and travel back toward his father. He literally had to take real steps so that forgiveness could be offered to him.

In the same manner, we have to recognize our sin and make an active choice to confess it, express our sorrow, ask for forgiveness and seek to amend our lives. In a sense, God is waiting for us to step forward so that He can offer forgiveness.

Rejecting forgiveness in reference to the sin against the Holy Spirit is more complex than other sins. For example, one could be enjoying the sin of adultery so that repentance is delayed. This person is not necessarily denying God or calling God satan. On the other hand the mortal sin against the Holy Spirit completely and totally denies God as being all good. The person does not take the necessary steps to be forgiven. This person has freely chosen to close his eyes and thus cannot see the possibility of forgiveness. Thus the complexity of this particular sin.

One important thing is to never underestimate the power of God to reach a soul. By this, I mean that God is constantly offering the grace of repentance. Repentance comes before forgiveness can be offered.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is meant for eternal life.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

The answers on this topic indicate that the sin is the rejection of forgiveness. If that was the case, then why did Jesus say that the sin would not BE forgiven. If the case is just the rejection of forgiveness, then the sin CAN be forgiven. This is what has really confused me.

Forgiveness requires change; It will never be forgiven because they will not change – and once in the afterlife, Judgment has already occurred; The change has to happen here, before death or it will be too late. Mortal sin is not forgiven in the next life – only venial sins are; the non-deadly ones. That’s the doctrine of Purgatory.

In the beginning of chapter 12, you can read about the man with the withered hand, and the blasphemy of the Pharisees there too. Realize that there is a repetitive pattern with the Pharisees.

Also, take a peek at what Jesus says in Matthew 12:34; this is one of the clearest statement in English; and I am going to paraphrase it in such a way as to intensify my interpretation – check your bible as well.

[sign]
Matthew 12:34
Brood of Vipers!
How can you who are evil speak good things !?
for the mouth speaks from the depths of the heart.

[/sign]Again, the idea of “spirit” is breath – and the evil are speaking;
But Jesus isn’t talking about a one time event – he is making it clear that the condemned CAN NOT speak anything good as long as the heart is full of evil intent.

If you can praise Jesus, you don’t fit the description; if you can say God is good at least sometimes you don’t have a totally evil heart – for a totally evil heart can never find a good thing to say about him.

Nor can a tree that is rotten (totally) ever bear good fruit. But a damaged tree can; for it can be made a good tree.

One more try:
This is my most thoughtful translation of Matthew 12:31-32. The word I translated spoke/spoken before was misleading; (For those who care, it can be subjunctive present, but not subjunctive Aorist.) This is as accurate as I can get right now.

[sign]
Matthew 12:31-23
Through(out) this (discussion), I am-saying-continually to you that
all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,
But the (familiar) spirit’s blasphemy will not be forgiven and that
if he-is-speaking-continually a word against the son of the man,
that will be forgiven him;
But if he-is-speaking-continually against the spirit of the holy,
that will-not-be-forgiven him in this very age, and-not-even in the afterlife.

[/sign]

It is almost as if the Holy Spirit were trying to speak through the man; but he forces the air out of his mouth in defiance.

Also, and more importantly, the Pharisees would not have recognized the Holy Spirit as a person, at this time. The sense of what Jesus is saying to them, is that if they are against the good thing itself – eg: the healing of the man – setting aside any motives that they assign Jesus; then they are evil.

But notice, if a man stops speaking blasphemous words – they are no longer continually spoken; and the logic stops being a threat; and no one is certain of what will happen, then.

The world/age has ended many times; it Ended for ancient Jerusalem around AD.70; But a new world came into being. Notice also that nowhere in the sentence does Jesus specify that these Pharisees will die in this very age – the time they are at right then; for the emphasis is this very age, rather than just this age. It is specific to the moment at hand; and for some that moment will change when Jesus dies on the cross – for others it never will.

 

[trdchubi]

OK, I’m really nervous. I have been struggling with thoughts against the Holy Spirit lately, and finally overcame them today, or so I thought. I was thinking to myself that I overcame the thoughts and wouldn’t think them again, that I was in control of my thoughts. Suddenly, I got this insulting degrading thought against the Holy Spirit, and I almost felt like I meant to think it and that I was in a mindset of talking down to Him. Instantly after thinking this, I became horrified and regretful of the thought and was sorry for offending Him, and realized that I didn’t mean what I said. I am scared that I might have blasphemed against Him. Did I? I felt like I meant to think the thought, but then realized that I didn’t meant what I said and was instantly contrite.

 I’m with you here. I struggle with the same kind of thoughts against the Holy Spirit when I was young. I was tempted to curse the Holy Spirit just on the simple reason of saying or thinking something that will really offend Him.  But that’s when I’m still in  fifth or sixth grade.

Nita was right, The Lord Jesus Christ told His disciples that He would send His Spirit into the world to “convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment” (John 16:7-11).

He sent forth His Holy Spirit to put awareness in our hearts that we have fallen short of His grace.

His Spirit applies the truths of God to the minds of men to convince them by fair and sufficient arguments that they are sinners. Responding to that conviction brings men to salvation. On the other hand, failure to respond brings eternal damnation.
Seriously I was also scared of this specific sin. But I realized later, He was also aware of the petty motive of my young mind back then — NOT TO BLASPHEME AGAINST HIM. Blasphemy is the key word that led me struggle with my thoughts specially the implications of the sin.

Now as a Catholic Charismatic this Spirit (who ask not to be blaspheme), is the Same Spirit that will guide you into all TRUTH” (John 16:13). He reveals to our minds the whole counsel of God as it relates to worship, doctrine, and Christian living. He is the ultimate guide, going before, leading the way, removing obstructions, opening the understanding, and making all things plain and clear. He leads in the way we should go in all spiritual things.

I suggest you pray whole heartedly to God about the Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-control (Galatians 5:22-23) that is brought by His Most Holy Spirit.

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

Matthew 12:31-23
Through(out) this (discussion), I am-saying-continually to you that
all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,
But the (familiar) spirit’s blasphemy will not be forgiven and that
if he-is-speaking-continually a word against the son of the man,
that will be forgiven him;
But if he-is-speaking-continually against the spirit of the holy,
that will-not-be-forgiven him in this very age, and-not-even in the afterlife.

Isn’t speaking against Jesus a mortal sin though? Why would Jesus say that it would be forgiven and separate it from speaking against the Spirit?

 

[grannymh]

Isn’t speaking against Jesus a mortal sin though? Why would Jesus say that it would be forgiven and separate it from speaking against the Spirit?

Would you please give an example of speaking against Jesus and speaking against the Spirit? This would be helpful since words such as speaking against and blasphemy may mean different things to different people. Thank you.

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

I mean the same thing as blasphemy when I say speak against.

 

[grannymh]

Originally Posted by Ally of Christ forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Isn’t speaking against Jesus a mortal sin though? Why would Jesus say that it would be forgiven and separate it from speaking against the Spirit?

I mean the same thing as blasphemy when I say speak against.

Please look at the context of “blasphemy” beginning with Matthew 12: 22 where Jesus cures a demoniac, a mute person, so that he could speak and see. Verse 24 is when Jesus is accused of driving out demons by the power of Beelzebul. This is the example of the sin of blasphemy against the Spirit. Verse 28 verifies that it is truly by the power or by the Spirit of God" that Jesus drives out demons. The footnote to verse 31 says: “Blasphemy against the Spirit: the sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of the Spirit of God.”

Now, when we look at blasphemy itself, it refers to a contemptuous or profane utterance concerning God. Blasphemy in itself does not include attributing the works of God to Beelzebul which is in effect a denial of God’s true being. Verses 31 and 32 refer to two types of blasphemy – the ordinary one which can be forgiven when one repents and the extraordinary one against the Holy Spirit which includes attributing to Satan the works of God on a continual basis with no intention of repentance. Verses 33 and 34 can be considered a challenge to the Pharisees to see the error of their ways and repent.

By looking at blasphemy as being two kinds may help you to realize why there are two kinds of sinners, one which repents and seeks forgiveness which is given and the other which freely and deliberately closes his eyes to the true nature of God and thus cannot see the possibility of forgiveness.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is sacred from the moment of conception.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Isn’t speaking against Jesus … mortal sin … ? Why would Jesus … separate it from speaking against the Spirit?

Good question!

The definition of mortal sin: 3 items;
Full consent, knowledge, and grave-matter.

Even though it is objectively sinful to blaspheme God incarnate; It is clear they didn’t know (really) that he was God. The same can’t be said of Goodness itself (the spiritual). This is why Jesus says elsewhere, “Why do you call me Good, only God is good.”

That is not to say the Pharisees were not in mortal sin; They did not accept the Baptism of John, let alone Jesus. And, in addition, they would be guilty of NOT bothering to find out the truth when they had evidence. That is a sin as well – and those already mortally wounded don’t have to be wounded again to die; they only have to avoid being saved.

In this passage, Jesus is teaching them of the danger they are in.
(And for us, as part of the crowd, it is a lesson on how we will be judged too)

Notice this point about their knowledge:
Ronald Knox Bible:

Matthew 12:23 – The multitudes were filled with amazement; Can this, they asked, be no other than the Son of David?
Matthew 12:24 – But the Pharisees said, when they heard of it; " … "

As a point of law, then, in determining his identity – they are likely speaking (worst case) against a man in their minds. Jesus calls himself, the “Son of MAN”
As the ruling class, the pharisees made legal claims against men who were under the law of Moses. They will (and think they can) blaspheme (eg:speek irreverantly of) men.

In this particular place, Jesus does not correct their thinking, but he carefully says “all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men”. That is not the same as saying “every single sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men every single time”; One’s assumptions are exposed when interpreting the passage. Jesus makes one exception to all, and does nothing to deny that there can be exceptions even to the exception!

However, Jesus is showing that at least some of the cases where the holy spirit is blasphemed, the sin will never be forgiven – now, in the future, or in the world to come. There may also be other hypothetical cases of sin which will never be forgiven, but I will show that is irrelevant.

What is important is to show how one ought to interpret the spirit of the Holy. (Holy Spirit). Since the question the crowd asked is about “the Son of David” – the context is best served by looking at Davidic writings, and prophecy.

David sinned against Uriah the Hittite in having sexual relations with his wife; and then having Uriah killed to avoid an inevitable confrontation. He wrote Psalm 50/51 when the prophet Nathan inspired by God exposed his sin. And then, repenting, David was inspired by God (the Holy spirit spoke through him) to write this verse.

Psalm 51:4 Against you, you only,[God] have I sinned and done this evil in your sight: That you may be justified when you speak and judge rightly.

David references the sexual sin of his mother in his confession; Most likely this is a figurative mother, and not necessarily only his biological one. The sin is likened (in Greek) to the offspring of sheep which Jacob made spotted(bad sheep) by interfering with their sexual act – and the psalm implies also the interference by David with Uriah and Bathsheeba’s sexual act. The adultery resulted in David’s & Bathsheeba’s first child dying.

David recognizes “sin” as being that which irritates God’s eyes; But the sinful act, itself, was against Uriah by Bathsheeba. (Similar: Adam Eve , Abel … )

The psalm, itself, explicitly says that the words in the psalm are David’s response to the Holy Spirit(words/breath) with which Nathan spoke. The spirit of holiness, to a Jew, would mean the prophetic words from God – not a person.

Jesus, the prophet, is talking to Jews with this understanding.
There is no difference in sinning against the Holy Spirit to a Jew, than in Sinning against God the Father, or blaspheming anything God’s prophets say.
But sin, to the Jew, can be spoken of as an offense ‘only’ against God.

That understanding is why Jesus brings it to the attention of the Pharisees using those words. But in using those words, Jesus does show that at least sometimes that sin is not forgiven; and that this non-forgiveness is permanent.

To the Pharisees, then, he is saying “it is possible that this sin will be held against you forever.”
But even from the cross, Jesus said:"… forgive them for they do not know what they are doing…"

In the conversation in Matthew, Jesus focuses the lens of his Judgment on their knowledge; they have full-(and unrepented)-consent in grave matter (deadly thinking and acting.) It is almost proven mortal … All Jesus needs to show is their knowledge of the evil they do. Jesus does not want the crowds to imitate the Pharisees even if some ignorance or another remains. They would all be thinking about the Davidic psalms, for they were wondering if Jesus is David’s son – the Messiah.
Notice also the context: words from a prophet (Nathan/Jesus) to a sinner.

Since the Pharisees can not convict Jesus of sin (as he wins the arguments with them), they must be speculating. So, to expose their Danger – Jesus uses Spirit of the Holy to remind them of prophecy and history.

Historically, the Pharisees ALWAYS are the culprits in killing God’s prophets.
There is a saying the Pharisees were fond of in Jesus’ day:
“If we had lived in our father’s time, we would not have killed God’s prophets.”
The Pharisee’s fathers speculated God’s prophets were false and it wasn’t until the prophecies came true after death of those prophets that they learned the truth.

The crowds (in Matthew) have watched Jesus’ debates, and they know the Pharisees can’t convict him of being a false prophet.
So Jesus is using this to his advantage by forcing them to the defensive position on the question of his identity.
Jesus’ point (to the crowd) is that if he, himself turns out to be (merely) a prophet the Pharisees are speaking against God exactly as their fathers did and Jesus is telling the future.

The Pharisees believe in the resurrection, angels, and judgment – they know that if they are proven wrong after Jesus’ death, that they will be publicly evil – as their father’s were.

In summary, If Jesus chooses to convict them (and he has shown that they are in danger through ignorance and pride ) they will never be forgiven.
But Jesus doesn’t explicitly say on what grounds he would choose to condemn other than the continuity (present tense) of DOING the sin. There’s where Catholic teaching picks up…

Ps: Son of Man is not only Jesus.

 

[steve_b]

Isn’t speaking against Jesus a mortal sin though?

Yes

Ally:

Why would Jesus say that it would be forgiven and separate it from speaking against the Spirit?

Since the HS is sent here by Jesus to lead the apostles who are the leaders of the Church] into all truth, [Jn 14:26] If one purposelly rejects their teaching i.e. what the Church teaches, with no disposition of changing, then by definition, they reject the guidance of the HS

An analogy is Ananias and Sapphira.[Acts 5:1…] They lied to the HS and died. It was interesting that they didn’t die immediately after the sin was committed, but only after Peter told them what they did. Which means they already knew what they did was bad. And they weren’t going to change.

 

[distracted]

Nita;5436024:

From the Catholic Encyclopedia newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

Scroll down to the finall section - “Sins Against the Holy Ghost”

St. Thomas, whom we may safely follow, gives a very good summary of opinions in II-II.14. He says that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was and may be explained in three ways.

• Sometimes, and in its most literal signification, it has been taken to mean the uttering of an insult against the Divine Spirit, applying the appellation either to the Holy Ghost or to all three Divine persons. This was the sin of the Pharisees, who spoke at first against “the Son of Man”, criticizing the works and human ways of Jesus, accusing Him of loving good cheer and wine, of associating with the publicans, and who, later on, with undoubted bad faith, traduced His Divine works, the miracles which He wrought by virtue of His own Divinity.

Suppose this is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Why is it unforgivable? If we are truly sorry for our actions maybe even years or decades after we commit the sin, why wouldn’t God forgive us? He told us to love our enemies, and to forgive seventy times seven times, but why would he not forgive someone who insulted Him?

this is not the unforgivable sin…

the unforgivable sin is rejecting God (Christ)…

Jesus is God… and told us he was/is (If you have seem ME you have seen the Father, etc.)

the RCC teaches that all sins are forgivable… except the ones not repented of… the ones held onto until after death… (unforgiven mortal sins)…

true, this is not explicilty in total (seeming) compliance w/ St Mt 12:32…

but that’s what is going on in that psg… the people there are rejecting Christ after he performed a great miracle… they are rejecting Christ KNOWING that He is God… knowing He is the truth…

and Jesus says that this sin is not forgiven in the next world. I think one thing he is saying is that all sin can / will be forgiven in the next age (Purgatory) except NOT wanting / choosing to be forgiven… not repenting… If you commit a mortal sin and immediately repent and happen to die as soon as you repent, you would go to Purgatory… IF you committed a mortal sin and were NOT the least bit sorry for it… well, likely you werne’t sorry because you didn’t care about your relationship with God…and in that case, you are pretty far gone to Jesus… but in any case… unforgiven / uncleansed sin is what is unforgivable…

most people who have any kind of relationship with God at all … feel automatically guilty - at least some level of guilt… after having committed a mortal sin… but some people “lose their souls” from continous sinning… and don’t care about God…
​

​

 

[distracted]

does anyone here disagree?

Post 33

 

[grannymh]

does anyone here disagree?

Post 33

There is more to the “sin” than rejecting Christ. In order to understand the passage, one needs to start reading at verse Matthew 12: 22 – which is quite a bit ahead of the particular verse in the citation and then one needs to continue reading…

Blasphemy against the Spirit" is the sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of the Spirit of God." This is in essence a total denial of God and God’s true being. The continuation of this sin is the problem. Christ continues to reach out to all sinners, even when hanging from the cross. It is up to the sinner to repent

For an example of an actual sin in Scripture, please see post 30.

 

[distracted]

“Blasphemy against the Spirit” is the sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of the Spirit of God." This is in essence a total denial of God and God’s true being. The continuation of this sin is the problem. Christ continues to reach out to all sinners, even when hanging from the cross. It is up to the sinner to repent

For an example of an actual sin in Scripture, please see post 30.

even if i didn’t know what the Church taught on this, if i was an alien from another planet reading this and trying to make up my mind… i would agree with Post 33 …

we all sometimes wonder if something is from God or the devil…

If there is only ONE unforgivable sin… it stands to reason (logic) that it would be (POst 33)…

nothing else makes sense… and this is what the Roman Catholic C. teaches

 

[grannymh]

even if i didn’t know what the Church taught on this, if i was an alien from another planet reading this and trying to make up my mind… i would agree with Post 33 …

we all sometimes wonder if something is from God or the devil…

If there is only ONE unforgivable sin… it stands to reason (logic) that it would be (POst 33)…

nothing else makes sense… and this is what the Roman Catholic C. teaches

Note: I made a correction to my post while you were posting. I would suggest that you read the expanded citation. Thank you.

 

[matahari]

Blasphemy against the Spirit" is the sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of the Spirit of God." This is in essence a total denial of God and God’s true being. The continuation of this sin is the problem. Christ continues to reach out to all sinners, even when hanging from the cross. It is up to the sinner to repent

For an example of an actual sin in Scripture, please see post 30.

---

I’m joining this discussion late but I agree with this explanation also in footnotes of Douay Rheims Bible ]
One who thus attacks directly this source of all grace , rejects the source of salvation. It is morally impossible that he should ever meet the conditions for absolution.

The unforgivable sin - to attribute to Satan the works of the Holy Spirit as the pharisees did in Matthew Ch. 12

 

[roveau]

One of the nurses I work with comes from the Philippines I think. I was pretty shocked when I heard her take the name of the Holy Spirit in vain when things went wrong or became awkward.

Rove