Congregation at Mass

[Mysty101]

Hi,

This topic was referenced in one of the Latin threads, but it is really a separate issue.
I had posted this

There are not many specific instructions for the congregation. We must also use common sense and it is also in the Spirit of unity in the “Body of Christ” to follow the customs of the Parish where we are attending Mass.

GIRM 42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants…

43…With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal

82…As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. .

So the Bishop does have some specific authority over the gestures of the congregation.

I was trying to find something more specific, and came across this

GIRM 94. After the priest, the deacon, in virtue of the sacred ordination he has received, holds first place among those who minister in the Eucharistic Celebration. For the sacred Order of the diaconate has been held in high honor in the Church even from the time of the Apostles.82 At Mass the deacon has his own part in proclaiming the Gospel, in preaching God’s word from time to time, in announcing the intentions of the Prayer of the Faithful, in ministering to the priest, in preparing the altar and serving the celebration of the Sacrifice, in distributing the Eucharist to the faithful, especially under the species of wine, and sometimes in giving directions regarding the people’s gestures and posture

.

Comments?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The key here is this: “whatever is indicated in the Missal” (which includes the GIRM) Not whatever they feel is correct or warm and fuzzy. Every parish within a diocese and even between different diocese should with very few exceptions be using the same gestures, words and the same responses and actions of the faithful.

 

[Mysty101]

Yes, I agree, but what about when no posture or gesture is indicated?

from the USCCB Bulletin

But there are other gestures that intensify our prayer at Mass. During the Confiteor the action of striking our breasts at the words through my own fault can strengthen my awareness that my sin is my fault. In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. This gesture signifies our profound respect and gratitude to Christ who, though God, did not hesitate to come among us as a human being, sharing our human condition in order to save us from sin and restore us to friendship with God. This gratitude is expressed with even greater solemnity on the Feast of the Annunciation of the Lord and on Christmas when we genuflect at these words.

The GIRM gives very little instruction on gestures for the congregation.

 

[Elzee]

Is it a requirement that we bow at this part of the Creed? I bow slightly because no one in my parish does it and I don’t want to stand out. I notice, however, that at the Masses held at our Cathedral by the Bishop everyone bowed at the name of ‘Jesus’ when saying the Creed and did a profound bow during the part which says ‘by the power of the Holy Spirit…’.

I love our Bishop by the way. He’s a dynamic speaker with a passionate love for Our Lord and the Eucharist and evangelization. I’m on cloud nine for days everytime I attend Mass there with him. Highly reverent, a little Latin mixed in, honor to Our Blessed Mother, the GIRM followed to a letter, traditional dress for Deacons and Servers, a separate, much less ornate, and lower placed lectern for the cantor to use instead of using the one set aside for Scripture readings, the Seminarians and priests all genuflecting and bowing EVERYTIME they passed in front of the tabernacle or altar (and they passed by it many times as theyusually have to set up additional chairs for the packed Mass).

 

[netmilsmom]

Elzee:

I
I love our Bishop by the way. He’s a dynamic speaker with a passionate love for Our Lord and the Eucharist and evangelization. I’m on cloud nine for days everytime I attend Mass there with him. Highly reverent, a little Latin mixed in, honor to Our Blessed Mother, the GIRM followed to a letter, traditional dress for Deacons and Servers, a separate, much less ornate, and lower placed lectern for the cantor to use instead of using the one set aside for Scripture readings, the Seminarians and priests all genuflecting and bowing EVERYTIME they passed in front of the tabernacle or altar (and they passed by it many times as theyusually have to set up additional chairs for the packed Mass).

Where are you?
You can private mail me if you don’t want it known.
God Bless your Bishop!

 

[Elzee]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Where are you?
You can private mail me if you don’t want it known.
God Bless your Bishop!

I’m sorry but I’m still learning the ins and outs of this forum…how do I do this? I get a message saying I need to edit my profile to allow private messaging since I have it turned off, but I don’t see that option when I go into ‘edit profile’?

 

[Mysty101]

Elzee:

Is it a requirement that we bow at this part of the Creed? I bow slightly because no one in my parish does it and I don’t want to stand out. I notice, however, that at the Masses held at our Cathedral by the Bishop everyone bowed at the name of ‘Jesus’ when saying the Creed and did a profound bow during the part which says ‘by the power of the Holy Spirit…’.

This is the instruction from the GIRM.

Girm 137. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect

.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Mysty101:

Yes, I agree, but what about when no posture or gesture is indicated?

The GIRM gives very little instruction on gestures for the congregation.

That is because there are very few gestures made by the congregation and posture is clearly spelled out.

" In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man."

We are instructed to bow!

 

[Elzee]

Br. Rich SFO:

That is because there are very few gestures made by the congregation and posture is clearly spelled out.

" In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man."

We are instructed to bow!

I guess my parish gets it right twice a year…we do genuflect when we’re supposed to.

 

[Mysty101]

Br. Rich SFO:

That is because there are very few gestures made by the congregation and posture is clearly spelled out.

" In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man."

We are instructed to bow!

Again I agree. So is there any offficial instrucction which forbids the orans position? Why would this prayer position be forbidden, if other positions which are not instructed are not forbidden?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Mysty101:

Again I agree. So is there any offficial instrucction which forbids the orans position? Why would this prayer position be forbidden, if other positions which are not instructed are not forbidden?

I’ve never heard that the Orans posture is forbidden. However a specific Bishop could forbid it in his diocese since it is not required by the GIRM. He could do this on the basis that hands extended, palms up is usually a priestly posture for prayer.

 

[Mysty101]

Br. Rich SFO:

I’ve never heard that the Orans posture is forbidden. However a specific Bishop could forbid it in his diocese since it is not required by the GIRM. He could do this on the basis that hands extended, palms up is usually a priestly posture for prayer.

Now if a Bishop is “within his competency” to issue an instruction forbidding a particular gesture, (without recognito ot the Apostolic See) wouldn’t he also be within his competency to allow or instruct a posture? I hope you understand that I am trying to glean a sense of the official liturgical word on this. There has been so much unofficial nonsense posted in some threads. Thanks for your time.

1. It is up to the Conferences of Bishops to decide on the adaptations indicated in this General Instruction and in the Order of Mass and, once their decisions have been accorded the recognitio of the Apostolic See, to introduce them into the Missal itself. These adaptations include

• The gestures and posture of the faithful (cf. no. 43 above);
• The gestures of veneration toward the altar and the Book of the Gospels (cf. no. 273 above);
• The texts of the chants at the entrance, at the presentation of the gifts, and at Communion (cf. nos. 48, 74, 87 above);
• The readings from Sacred Scripture to be used in special circumstances (cf. no. 362 above);
• The form of the gesture of peace (cf. no. 82 above);
• The manner of receiving Holy Communion (cf. nos. 160, 283 above);
• The materials for the altar and sacred furnishings, especially the sacred vessels, and also the materials, form, and color of the liturgical vestments (cf. nos. 301, 326, 329, 339, 342-346 above).

Directories or pastoral instructions that the Conferences of Bishops judge useful may, with the prior recognitio of the Apostolic See, be included in the Roman Missal at an appropriate place.