Congregation Participating in Doxology?

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dawn1971

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At a recent Mass for our confirmandi’s a visiting Priest asked everyone around the altar and had two teens elevate the Precious Body & Blood, he had all those around the altar join him in saying “Through Him, With Him in Him…” Then he distributed The Eucharist to everyone and had them all consume together.

Is this proper? How to handle something like this? My son is part of the group preparing for Confirmation and it was very distressing to me that he had to witness this. I did explain to him that I did not think this was proper and the resulting giggling and goofing off during consumption was highly disrespectful, but it is still very distressing.
 
dawn1971 said:
At a recent Mass for our confirmandi’s a visiting Priest asked everyone around the altar and had two teens elevate the Precious Body & Blood, he had all those around the altar join him in saying “Through Him, With Him in Him…” Then he distributed The Eucharist to everyone and had them all consume together.

Is this proper? How to handle something like this? My son is part of the group preparing for Confirmation and it was very distressing to me that he had to witness this. I did explain to him that I did not think this was proper and the resulting giggling and goofing off during consumption was highly disrespectful, but it is still very distressing.
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WOW!
Nobody’s supposed to be around the altar at consecration.
Only a priest or a deacon is allowed to raise the Chalice & the Host.
Nobody but the priest is allowed to say the doxology – it’s part of the Eucharistic Prayer and belongs solely to the priests (celebrant or concelebrant – although the concelebrant is supposed to say it quietly).
Nobody should be near the altar until the priest has received Communion. Priests receive at the same time if they are concelebrants.
 
dawn1971 said:
At a recent Mass for our confirmandi’s a visiting Priest asked everyone around the altar and had two teens elevate the Precious Body & Blood, he had all those around the altar join him in saying “Through Him, With Him in Him…” Then he distributed The Eucharist to everyone and had them all consume together.

Is this proper? How to handle something like this? My son is part of the group preparing for Confirmation and it was very distressing to me that he had to witness this. I did explain to him that I did not think this was proper and the resulting giggling and goofing off during consumption was highly disrespectful, but it is still very distressing.
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completely and totally forbidden, wrong, wrong wrong
laity may not recite the doxology, may not be around the altar during the Eucharistic prayer, and certainly may not elevate the sacred species, nor commune with the priest. my guess is this was only the most egregious of other problems with that Mass

the pastor and catechists need to address this with the class immediately so the false idea is not promoted and passed on. Pastor needs to be more careful about who he invites to celebrate from now on.
 
It is a grave abuse and should be reported. If your priest responds in favor of the events then I know I would leave the parish. Where theres smoke theres fire. No doubt this event is a sign of how many other things are out of whack with this parish and priest.
 
dawn1971 said:
At a recent Mass for our confirmandi’s a visiting Priest asked everyone around the altar and had two teens elevate the Precious Body & Blood, he had all those around the altar join him in saying “Through Him, With Him in Him…” Then he distributed The Eucharist to everyone and had them all consume together.
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Completely wrong, as the other posters have said.

“The proclamation of the Eucharistic Prayer, which by its very nature is the climax of the whole celebration, is proper to the Priest by virtue of his Ordination. It is therefore an abuse to proffer it in such a way that some parts of the Eucharistic Prayer are recited by a Deacon, a lay minister, or by an individual member of the faithful, or by all members of the faithful together. The Eucharistic Prayer, then, is to be recited by the Priest alone in full” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 52) The concluding doxology is still part of the Eucharistic Prayer and is to be said only by the priest.

There should not be lay people around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer, so they should certainly not be holding the paten and chalice at that time. That is the duty of the priest (and a deacon, if there is one).

“The faithful should normally receive sacramental Communion of the Eucharist during Mass itself, at the moment laid down by the rite of celebration, that is to say, just after the Priest celebrant’s Communion.” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 88)

An earlier document also specifically mentioned “extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants” as a practice “to be avoided and eliminated”. (Ecclesiae de Mysterio 8)

This is a problem not only because it is against the Church’s liturgical rules, but because it can engender further disobedience to the Church (wittingly or not) and can make the students wonder why they can’t always be standing at the altar and receiving Communion “early”, etc.
 
Thank you for your help in this. I will speak to my Priest about it. He did not ask this other priest to replace him, the priest was invited by those leading the retreat. Thank you again and please keep my son in your prayers as he prepares to receive The Holy Spirit in Confirmation.
Blessings!
 
Just for personal clarification (and there will be follow up Qs). The Eucharistic Prayer is inclusive of the words spoken after the Holy, Holy and thru the Great Amen?
 
tristetrista said:
Just for personal clarification (and there will be follow up Qs). The Eucharistic Prayer is inclusive of the words spoken after the Holy, Holy and thru the Great Amen?
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The Eucharistic Prayer is all the words after the “Holy, Holy, Holy” all the way through to (and including) the doxology “Through him, with him, and in him…”, with the exception of the acclamation in the middle (after the bread and wine have been consecrated).

Holy, Holy, Holy - Priest + Congregation
Eucharistic Prayer (part 1) - Priest
Acclamation - Priest + Congregation
Eucharistic Prayer (part 2) - Priest
Doxology - Priest
Amen - Congregation
 
Phemie said:
WOW!
Nobody but the priest is allowed to say the doxology – it’s part of the Eucharistic Prayer and belongs solely to the priests (celebrant or concelebrant – although the concelebrant is supposed to say it quietly).
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I seem to recall there’s an indult for Canada that allows the faithful to say the doxology with the priest. I don’t particularly approve of it but if it’s there, it is legit.

Interestingly I usually go to Mass at a Benedictine monastery. The indult does not apply ton the Benedictine order. So the laity don’t recite the doxology, except for the odd visitor who doesn’t know.
 
OraLabora said:
There’s an indult for Canada that allows the faithful to say the doxology with the priest. I don’t particularly approve of it but it’s there, so it is legit.

Interestingly I usually go to Mass at a Benedictine monastery. The indult does not apply ton the Benedictine order. So the laity don’t recite the doxology, except for the odd visitor who doesn’t know.
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Where on line can I find a copy of this indult?
 
OraLabora said:
I seem to recall there’s an indult for Canada that allows the faithful to say the doxology with the priest. I don’t particularly approve of it but if it’s there, it is legit.

Interestingly I usually go to Mass at a Benedictine monastery. The indult does not apply ton the Benedictine order. So the laity don’t recite the doxology, except for the odd visitor who doesn’t know.
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That idea sounds very odd. Which “doxology” do you mean? Is it the “through Him, with Him, in Him…” at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer (which is a doxology), or the doxology at the end of the Our Father?

The one at the end of the Eucharistic prayer is not a seperate prayer, but part of the priest’s words of the EP itself. That’s why I rather doubt that an indult permitting laypersons to join in on those words would even be possible. Personally, I can’t even imagine the CDWDS even considering granting such an indult. Not even deacons can join-in on these words (the raising of the chalice, yes, but not the words).

If the indult is legitimate, I won’t question it. Yet, I do think this sort of thing would have to be substantiated. Do you have anything to support that, other than “I seem to recall”?

I realize you’re not trying to present it as a fact (your own words make that clear), but it is something that I, for one, would want to see some kind of proof of it before I’m willing to believe that it exists.
 
FrDavid96 said:
That idea sounds very odd. Which “doxology” do you mean? Is it the “through Him, with Him, in Him…” at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer (which is a doxology), or the doxology at the end of the Our Father?

The one at the end of the Eucharistic prayer is not a seperate prayer, but part of the priest’s words of the EP itself. That’s why I rather doubt that an indult permitting laypersons to join in on those words would even be possible. Personally, I can’t even imagine the CDWDS even considering granting such an indult. Not even deacons can join-in on these words (the raising of the chalice, yes, but not the words).

If the indult is legitimate, I won’t question it. Yet, I do think this sort of thing would have to be substantiated. Do you have anything to support that, other than “I seem to recall”?

I realize you’re not trying to present it as a fact (your own words make that clear), but it is something that I, for one, would want to see some kind of proof of it before I’m willing to believe that it exists.
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I doubt very much that such an indult exists.

Just a few years ago at the parish where I grew up, and where the congregation always spoke the doxology with the priest, a visiting priest stopped cold during the doxology to say, “I don’t know why you’re doing this but stop it now because this prayer belongs to the priest alone.” It stopped for a while but last time I was there they were back at it.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Do you have anything to support that, other than “I seem to recall”?
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Not off the top of my head. It was in a discussion on another discussion list between a couple of us Canadian Catholics on the list.

It is a very universal practice in the French Canadian branch of the Church though. Like in every single parish I have been to, and at St-Joseph’s Oratory and the Montreal and Sherbrooke cathedrals to name a few. Even with the archbishop presiding. I would have to assume the archbishop doesn’t allow such things lightly…
 
OraLabora said:
Not off the top of my head. It was in a discussion on another discussion list between a couple of us Canadian Catholics on the list.

It is a very universal practice in the French Canadian branch of the Church though. Like in every single parish I have been to, and at St-Joseph’s Oratory and the Montreal and Sherbrooke cathedrals to name a few. Even with the archbishop presiding. I would have to assume the archbishop doesn’t allow such things lightly…
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glad i don’t see that in my parish. while i live on the west coast, i live in a traditionally French neighborhood and my parish does have a French mass, but i’ve never attended it. but knowing my parish priest, he won’t allow such practices. there have been several homilies where he rants in the end telling people the mistakes they do during mass
 
Ockham said:
There seems to be a lot of disobedience in your neck of the woods Phemie. Have you contacted your bishop about it?
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The doxology bit is in my childhood parish, not the diocese where I live now. In talking with my cousin who still lives there she informed me that the priest had told them that they weren’t supposed to be saying the doxology but he wasn’t going to change anything. Isn’t it great to have such obedient priests?!?! As is OraLabora’s experience, this is a French parish.

While the CCCB has published an English document on the Eucharistic Prayer which states categorically that the EP is the priests’ alone and the ORDO reiterates in no uncertain terms **"During the Eucharistic Prayer, the assembly listens. Only the presiding priest is heard; under no circumstances is the congregation to join him in reciting part or all of this prayer. The doxology that concludes the Eucharistic Prayer belongs to the priest (and concelebrants) alone’ **no such document exists in French and the French ORDO doesn’t include nearly as many ‘pastoral notes’ as the English one.

In my present parish reciting the doxology with the priest was the norm until I found that CCCB document and quoted it in an article in the parish Bulletin. The people just stopped doing it but not without complaining about what I had done.

As for contacting my bishop, well, I’ve seen enough that he condones that I know complaining does no good.
 
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