Congress Approves Minimum-Wage Increase

[boppaid]

Minimum-wage is not meant to raise a family off of. It was started for high school and college age students.

Well, regardless of the original intent of minimim wage being meant for the younger set, in today’s economy, people are unfortunately forced to raise their families on minimum wage. It is very sad, indeed.

I am insulted by the insulting of younger workers who “don’t need the money.” I am 21. I work full-time will going to school full-time. I need this money because I don’t live with my parents.

This is not meant to be an insult, so I hope you don’t take it that way. (I was once a college student working full time too, so I understand how difficult it is.) If it’s a choice between a younger single person getting the job or a man supporting a family with children, I would have to go with the family. Children’s lives are at stake.

 

[jman507]

Well, regardless of the original intent of minimim wage being meant for the younger set, in today’s economy, people are unfortunately forced to raise their families on minimum wage. It is very sad, indeed.

This is not meant to be an insult, so I hope you don’t take it that way. (I was once a college student working full time too, so I understand how difficult it is.) If it’s a choice between a younger single person getting the job or a man supporting a family with children, I would have to go with the family. Children’s lives are at stake.

I would say if a child’s life is at stake, make the change in the taxes.

 

[psr13]

So if it’s a choice between a single student and a man with a family, the student can just starve? Good to know. We are the ones who will be running the country in a few years. If someone is supporting a family that person needs to get some skill in a higher-paying area.

 

[boppaid]

So if it’s a choice between a single student and a man with a family, the student can just starve? Good to know. We are the ones who will be running the country in a few years. If someone is supporting a family that person needs to get some skill in a higher-paying area.

Of course we don’t want anyone to starve! I’m simply saying that my heart does go out more toward babies and children who need food, shelter, clothing, etc. Maybe it’s an emotional thing. I don’t know…when I was a poor college student, I would have rather seen a man who needs my pizza parlor job to raise his family have it, in a sense. Again, maybe it’s an emotional reaction I’m having.

Sadly, it doesn’t seem like there are enough jobs for everyone to go around these days. I guess I have the old fashioned “women and children first” mentality. Again, sorry if I offended you, as that was not my intention. I hate that we live in a society where wages are so low and jobs are so scarce.

I do want to point out, though, that although you are right…your generation will be running the country in a few years, those babies and small children will be running it right after you. They need a good start as well.

There just are no easy answers, are there?

 

[boppaid]

I just caught this:

If someone is supporting a family that person needs to get some skill in a higher-paying area.

A person who is working 70 hours per week to raise their children doesn’t have time to “get some skill”. A person who’s parents let them drop out of school at 16 doesn’t have necessary skills to “get some skill”. A person who is addicted to drugs doesn’t have the wherewithall to “get some skill”. A person who is 50 years old, was close to retirement, then let go is not able to get a new career by “getting some skill”. Do those people’s families need to suffer? Their children?

Honestly, I guess it’s because you are so young, but it seems that you have no idea how harsh the world can be sometimes. The “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality can be fine for an adult, but what about their children?

 

[mary_bobo]

A person deserves a fair days pay for a fair days work, and if those restaurants and fast-food outlets say the recent increase in the minimum wage will mean they have to close down, then so be it. I take their statements with a pinch of salt…

If those restaurants and fast food places close down, all of the jobs will be lost. Or, they may stay open, but just cut the work force. Now, if one is working in a classy restaurant when the tips are high, that might be another matter.

It is very troubling in today’s society that men and women work hard all week at dead-end ( not entry level ) jobs and yet cannot support themselves or their family. In days gone by, one person working could keep the other at home and their family had enough to live on.

Very true. Times have changed and so, unfortunately, have people’s expectations as to what they should have and when. Some years ago, families only had one car and mom stayed home and raised the kids. Too bad it is not like that now. I think the world would be a better place. These days young couples want everything right now, all the new gadgets and gizmos, etc. We are an instant gratification society.

Part of the problem lies in the disappearance of manufacturing jobs to China, leaving the low paid service jobs the only alternative.

Yes, we have lost manufacturing jobs overseas and not only to China. But some of those left because the labor unions were unreasonable in their demands and it was either close the doors or move offshore. I’m not happy about it, but businesses are not in business to create jobs, they are in business to make money.

In Canada we are aiming at a minimum wage in Ontario of $10, we haven’t achieved it yet. Even that is not enough if you live in Toronto. Of course the Harris, (Conservative) Provincial Government cut the welfare benefits by 21.5% and they haven’t changed since under a Liberal government.

I had the pleasure of living outside of Toronto for three years when my husband was transferred to his company’s Canadian operation. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

[psr13]

I don’t know how harsh the world really is? I grew up in the inner-city. My mother deserted me. My father was abusive. My family was targeted to be killed by drug dealers. My family was targeted to be killed by the most influential skinhead gang in the world pretty much. I had to live with my aunt and uncle for awhile. Then I had to live with my grandparents for awhile due to my horrible parents. Yeah, I know nothing of the world. My dad has always had a pretty good paycheck. But, half of his paycheck came from overtime. How did he get that job? Did he go straight to college because of his well off family? No, he joined the Air Force. That gave him excellent training and money for college. His mom was a poor girl from New Jersey. His dad was a poor first generation man. Yeah, they were well off. If you plan to have kids you need to have a job that can support kids.

 

[LJN21]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/03/AR2007010301619.html

I’m going to pull some of the more telling statics out of that.

“Most of the working poor earn more than the minimum wage, and most of the 0.6 percent (479,000 in 2005) of America’s wage workers earning the minimum wage are not poor. Only one in five workers earning the federal minimum lives in families with earnings below the poverty line. Sixty percent work part time, and their average household income is well over $40,000. (The average and median household incomes are $63,344 and $46,326, respectively.)”

“Forty percent of American workers are salaried. Of the 75.6 million paid by the hour, 1.9 million earn the federal minimum or less, and of these, more than half are under 25 and more than a quarter are between ages 16 and 19. Many are students or other part-time workers.”

“The federal minimum wage has not been raised since 1997, so 29 states with 70 percent of the nation’s workforce have set minimum wages between $6.15 and $7.93 an hour.”

The only people that really win are the unions.
heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1350.cfm
“Unions campaign to raise the minimum wage at least in part because it enriches them. Raising the minimum wage makes unskilled workers more expensive for businesses to hire, and so hiring skilled and highly paid union members becomes a more attractive choice. This effect increases union members’ earned income but reduces low-income workers’ job prospects and income. That unions support raising the minimum wage is understandable, but antipoverty advocates should reconsider their support for a policy that hurts the very people they seek to help.”

If we really want to help the low income working how about we take a look at things like Sales tax on food and taxes on gasoline. If we wanna make it easier for them to get jobs how about looking at taxes on small business.

 

[Ender]

I’m going to pull some of the more telling statics out of that…

It’s nice to see some real data to counter the misperceptions people have about the state of the economy. There is no doubt that some people have a hard time finding and keeping the jobs they would like to have, but with the unemployment rate in May at 4.5% it is not reasonable to assert that life for most Americans is hard because good jobs are not available.

One serious problem with raising the minimum wage, other than the number of jobs that are immediately lost, is that as the cost of labor increases so do the incentives to employ automation. The profit margin for grocery stores is extremely small and labor costs are a large part of their expenses - and they were one of the first industries to employ self check-out machines, a technology that is being increasingly used throughout retail businesses and airlines.

Each machine can replace multiple employees - they don’t mind working around the clock. The price of machines continually decreases; every time the cost of labor increases it becomes financially advantageous to eliminate the job and install the hardware.

Ender

 

[boppaid]

I don’t know how harsh the world really is? I grew up in the inner-city. My mother deserted me. My father was abusive. My family was targeted to be killed by drug dealers. My family was targeted to be killed by the most influential skinhead gang in the world pretty much. I had to live with my aunt and uncle for awhile. Then I had to live with my grandparents for awhile due to my horrible parents. Yeah, I know nothing of the world. My dad has always had a pretty good paycheck. But, half of his paycheck came from overtime. How did he get that job? Did he go straight to college because of his well off family? No, he joined the Air Force. That gave him excellent training and money for college. His mom was a poor girl from New Jersey. His dad was a poor first generation man. Yeah, they were well off. If you plan to have kids you need to have a job that can support kids.

I’m sorry you had a tough time. What I meant (mean) by my observation is that, in all honesty, it is difficult for someone who has not yet had to support a family to understand how difficult it can be to do so. It is also easy to say not to have kids unless you have a good job, but many Catholics believe that when you are married you should be fruitful and multiply, and although NFP is allowed, 1) some women have difficulty with it and get pg accidentally and 2) it is not encouraged unless there is a very good reason not to have children. Whether or not finances are a good enough reason is of some disagreement among some priests (at least in my experience).

Regardless, I guess my point is that sometimes children are unplanned. In fact, oftentimes they are unplanned. Yet, they are still a blessing, but they still need to be supported…even if their parents are unskilled workers.

Anyway, this seems to be a touchy subject for you. I said women and children should come first in society and you took that to mean I think you aren’t worthy of living. I also said that you sound young (you are) and sound (to me) a little inexperienced, and you got really upset. I truly didn’t mean either to be insulting (and tried to make that clear by prefacing my statements that no insult was intended).I was simply giving my opinion. You have to understand that I don’t know you by anything except what you have posted here thus far, so I never expected you to take my observations so personally. I guess I didn’t word it correctly. Anyway, I sincerely am very sorry for upsetting you. God Bless.

 

[Pondero]

I had the pleasure of living outside of Toronto for three years when my husband was transferred to his company’s Canadian operation. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

Mary bobo:
I am glad you liked Toronto, we tend to be a little more “socialistic” in our outlook up here. All in keeping, in my case with the social teaching of the Catholic Church, that is why I put the word “socialistic” in inverted commas, as it expresses best what I mean. We are not, at least I am not socialist in the sense in which the Popes have condemned socialism, because of its atheism, or because I believe in the abolition of private property - rightly condemned by the church.

If corporations can make as much money as they like and pay the workers the least amount that they have to, then there is nothing wrong in having trade unions using their power to obtain decent wages for the workers. In fact, if trade unions are seen as too greedy, then how come corporations are never accused of being greedy?

You point out that if there is a minimum wage then small fast-food outlets will either close down ( not a bad thing in my view) or lay off workers, and operate with a minimum staff. You are forgetting that there is a physical limit to what a minimum can do. If the outlet was operating efficiently under present wage conditions then it would already have a minimum staff. It is in its interest to do so, a business is not a charitable organization.

So, to lay off workers leads to dissatisfaction and an impossibility. It would be impossible to satisfy customers with such a reduction in staff and sales would drop. The answer is to cut the profits to a more reasonable level, remember there is no check and balance because in a fast food outlet there is no counter balance from a union.

 

[mary_bobo]

Mary bobo:
I am glad you liked Toronto, we tend to be a little more “socialistic” in our outlook up here. All in keeping, in my case with the social teaching of the Catholic Church, that is why I put the word “socialistic” in inverted commas, as it expresses best what I mean. We are not, at least I am not socialist in the sense in which the Popes have condemned socialism, because of its atheism, or because I believe in the abolition of private property - rightly condemned by the church.

If corporations can make as much money as they like and pay the workers the least amount that they have to, then there is nothing wrong in having trade unions using their power to obtain decent wages for the workers. In fact, if trade unions are seen as too greedy, then how come corporations are never accused of being greedy?

You point out that if there is a minimum wage then small fast-food outlets will either close down ( not a bad thing in my view) or lay off workers, and operate with a minimum staff. You are forgetting that there is a physical limit to what a minimum can do. If the outlet was operating efficiently under present wage conditions then it would already have a minimum staff. It is in its interest to do so, a business is not a charitable organization.

So, to lay off workers leads to dissatisfaction and an impossibility. It would be impossible to satisfy customers with such a reduction in staff and sales would drop. The answer is to cut the profits to a more reasonable level, remember there is no check and balance because in a fast food outlet there is no counter balance from a union.

We tried wage and price controls here in the 70’s and it was a disaster.

 

[JamesD]

with the unemployment rate in May at 4.5% it is not reasonable to assert that life for most Americans is hard because good jobs are not available.

One serious problem with raising the minimum wage, other than the number of jobs that are immediately lost, is that as the cost of labor increases so do the incentives to employ automation.

I agree that automation may increase due to increase in min wage.
IMO this is not a bad thing.

One anti min wage argument states why not raise min wage to $100 or $1000 an hour? Then we could all be rich.
I will turn your argument around that way:

What if we stopped using tractors on the farm or bulldozers in construction? Now how productive would the farmer or the construction worker be using hand tools? The work would be of much less work.
Automation is good it allows the person using it to work more productively and each hour would be worth more. Thats for the user, maintance worker, and builder of the machines. At the 4.9% jobless rate. It seems to me this could be a good thing.

The min wage is like tax rates. Depending on circumstances, increasing them or decreasing them can gererate more or less income. (The Laugher curve). If the min wage is too high it can generate high unemployment, but if too low it allows for exploitation and misses an opportunity for greater bennefit for the common good.
Another example of using the proper balance of economic tools is the Fed interest rates. Too high and they slow the economy too low and they cause economic bubbles that burst with hard landings. The proper interest rate is determined by circumstances. In the case of min wage it is clear to me that the benefits outweigh the possible risks at this time.

Jim

 

[Pondero]

Mary bobo:

I wasn’t writing about “Wage and Price controls” I was considering the effect of an increase in minimum wage,and why it is a good thing, one in accordance with Catholic Social teaching.

Ever read Pope Leo XIII encyclical Rerum Novarum or Pope Pius XI,s (40 Years After)? I can’t remember the Latin title for that one, but it emphasized the importance of forming trade unions to increase the welfare of workers, plus a lot more things.
This was followed by Pope John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus . and later, ninety years after Pope Leo XIII’s original - by Laborem Exercens (On Human Work).

In Chapter 19, page 46 in my edition of *Laborem Exercens *the Pope writes:

“Just remuneration for the work of an adult who is responsible for a family means remuneration that will suffice for establishing and maintaining a family and for providing security for its future. Such remuneration can be given through what is called a ‘family wage’ -that is, a single salary given to the head of the family for his work, sufficient for the needs of the family without the other spouse having to take up gainful employment outside the home - or through ‘other social measures’ such as family allowances or grants to mothers devoting themselves exclusively to their families. These grants should correspond to the actual needs, that is, to the number of dependents for as long as they are not in a position to assume proper responsibility for their own lives.”

Now, the question to be asked is this: Is the minimum wage just remuneration enabling a man to raise a family? I think the answer at present both in Canada and the USA is a definite “No”.

The Pope then goes on suggesting remedies to raise family remuneration to acceptable levels.
Some of these measures are already used by the Feds. and the State - family allowances, mothers’ allowance, for example - but they are not enough in my view - at least not in Canada.