Conjoined Twins and personhood

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Ben_Sinner

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Hello, I was wondering what the faith might consider the personhood for these particular pair of conjoined twins who share the same brain, feel each other’s pain, receive each other’s thoughts, and can even see out of the other twins’ eyes.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331769/Doctors-stunned-conjoined-twins-share-brain-thoughts.html

Would they be two different persons?

If so, wouldn’t that go against the teaching that only God can only know the thoughts of other people and no man or even the devil himself could know that? These two children know each others thoughts.

…or would it be a kind of “combined” person hood?

I’m not really sure how to figure this out theologically
 
I think that is against the Church teaching because a person should not be able to read another person’s mind since it is soul that processes thoughts. This observation unarguably suggest that that is the brain which process thoughts, etc.
 
If there is only one brain, then to my understanding, there are not two people; just one person with a partially duplicated body.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
If there is only one brain, then to my understanding, there are not two people; just one person with a partially duplicated body.

ICXC NIKA
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It is not apparently one brain since they can have different thoughts, feeling, etc.
 
The Bible talks to the general populace so not every single situation gets covered. It also simplifies points at times. “Everything is possible with God” sounds much better than “Everything is possible with God that is possible for God.” So a teaching that only God can know another’s thoughts could very well have a few exceptions without beong broken, no?
 
STT said:
I think that is against the Church teaching because a person should not be able to read another person’s mind since it is soul that processes thoughts. This observation unarguably suggest that that is the brain which process thoughts, etc.
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Um, i think this is a unique situation for these little girls. They are not committing a sin by being able to hear each others thoughts!
 
If they are capable of distinct thought they are two separate people, even if certain neural pathways allow them to also share thoughts.
 
STT said:
I think that is against the Church teaching because a person should not be able to read another person’s mind since it is soul that processes thoughts. This observation unarguably suggest that that is the brain which process thoughts, etc.
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Given that the church and science do not disagree, it is the brain that processes our thoughts as far as science and the church is concerned.
 
ShrodingersCat said:
Given that the church and science do not disagree, it is the brain that processes our thoughts as far as science and the church is concerned.
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According to Aquinas the intellect which is faculty of soul is in charge of intellectual activity including thoughts. I believe that is the Church position too.
 
STT said:
According to Aquinas the intellect which is faculty of soul is in charge of intellectual activity including thoughts. I believe that is the Church position too.
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This is a gross simplification. The brain is involved in our conscious experience and underlies our thinking. No Thomist would say otherwise. Your understanding is more Cartesian, not Thomist.

On topic, it sounds like they are to be considered two persons, given the appearance of two separate wills and conscious experiences, even if they share part of their brain.
 
Wesrock said:
This is a gross simplification. The brain is involved in our conscious experience and underlies our thinking. No Thomist would say otherwise. Your understanding is more Cartesian, not Thomist.

On topic, it sounds like they are to be considered two persons, given the appearance of two separate wills and conscious experiences, even if they share part of their brain.
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Is intellect faculty of soul?
 
This is a simplified analogy, but if brain activity is like words on a page, the intellect is like a part that “reads” and interprets them. (More can be said here) So if the shared part of the brain produces a neural pattern, it’s not weird that two intellects “read” the same concepts or thoughts from it.
 
STT said:
Is intellect faculty of soul?
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Yes, but most of conscious (and unconscious) activity and the material processes of the brain that underlying rational thought are not. I suspect you are using too broad a definition of intellect.
 
Wesrock said:
Yes, but most of conscious (and unconscious) activity and the material processes of the brain that underlying rational thought are not. I suspect you are using too broad a definition of intellect.
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That is strange to me that a Catholic believe that consciousness is the result of material process. Anyway, are thoughts processed by soul knowing the fact that intellect is faculty of soul? If the answer to this question is yes then the above evidence is an obvious counter example otherwise intellect is the result of material process either.
 
The spirit and the body are one in a person. It is that unity that perceives, thinks and acts. You and I think, see and act. We relate to what is other, which can even be aspects of ourselves.

If one puts together a Frankenstein monster, that collection of matter will not be a person regardless of how fancy the electronic equipment to make the body reacts. It has no soul.

Matter does not generate consciousness, but rather is a major factor influencing its phenomenology. And, the soul is not simply an observer.

The matter and spirit are divisible, but the result is a damaged or dead person.

In the case of shared cerebral structures, neither can read the “other’s” thoughts and perceptions because the shared part of the body is each their own. If it were a shared limb receiving unshared neural (name removed by moderator)ut, it would move in accordance to the joint stimulation. It’s sort of the converse that we might see in a neurosurgical commissurotomy, where the person may react emotionally to a stimulus of the left side of the body, but not be able to verbalized it because the sensation and the information from the other side of the brain does not reach the speech areas.
 
The girls are clearly two people with two souls. And I wouldn’t reduce the word “thoughts” to a few functions of the brain.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Hello, I was wondering what the faith might consider the personhood for these particular pair of conjoined twins who share the same brain, feel each other’s pain, receive each other’s thoughts, and can even see out of the ***other ***twins’ eyes…
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If there is “other” then there are two souls.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
The girls are clearly two people with two souls. And I wouldn’t reduce the word “thoughts” to a few functions of the brain.
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There is a continuum of thought, from sensations at the skin surface to the highest poetry. Some can possibly be shared; some not.

ICXC NIKA
 
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