Connection between abortion & same-sex unions?

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flatlanderjenn

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Hello all!

I’ve heard before that there is a connection between abortion & same-sex unions. Those who support abortion also support same-sex unions, and people who support same-sex unions also support abortion.

But I don’t remember why. Is it a contraceptive/sterile mentality? Does it have to do with choosing what one does with one’s own body (although abortion is about the baby’s body, not the mother’s)? Can someone please explain it to me again?

Thank you.
 
I don’t know if there is a connection. Ironically, the two openly homosexual people I know are very, very pro life. One of them, (a close friend of mine) marched with me against abortion several times. Yes, I know he is an exception to the rule, but it’s still pretty cool.

The other homosexual person I know is also pro-life, but she is just very quiet about her life period.
 
To me, the connection would be more between artificial contraception and same-sex marriage. Before the proliferation and mass acceptance of artificial contraception, I think it was generally assumed that couples who married would, if biologically capable, produce children. Having and rearing children was considered a primary function of the marital union. That is no longer the case, and, now that it is difficult to argue that child bearing and rearing is a primary function of marriage because so many couples choose to have a childless marriage, the door is wide open to not only question but to fundamentally alter the concept of marriage.
 
Unholy and ungodly leads to more unholy and ungodly. They also come under the progressive view of social and individual liberty.

Because these two issues have no room for compromise, they are natural candidates for assessing someone’s philosophical views.
 
flatlanderjenn said:
Hello all!

I’ve heard before that there is a connection between abortion & same-sex unions. Those who support abortion also support same-sex unions, and people who support same-sex unions also support abortion.

But I don’t remember why. Is it a contraceptive/sterile mentality? Does it have to do with choosing what one does with one’s own body (although abortion is about the baby’s body, not the mother’s)? Can someone please explain it to me again?

Thank you.
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Proponents of liberal issues tend to stick together and support each other, safety in numbers. Nothing more sinister than that.
 
I know of pro life people who support gay marriage so I’m not sure if there’s a significant connection or if it’s at all relevant.
 
I think it boils down to what they percieve as “human rights violations”. To the pro-abortion person with SSA they view anti-abortion laws as imposing on the woman’s right to bodily sovereignty, at the same time, they view anti-gay marriage laws as imposing on their rights.

Its all about what they have perceived to be rights. Plus, it might be the whole “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Christian society for the most part opposed both gay marriage and abortion.

I’ve read quite a few blogs and articiles written by both SSA people and pro-aborts and when they discuss this issue its usually the above sort of opinion that goes across the board.

Granted, I think its rather self-defeatest for the homosexual community to support abortion, it’d be cheaper to adopt a child from their own country then go overseas, but of course, the vaste majority happen to support abortion - which is killing all those possibile adoptable babies for their gay families!
 
Yes and no. It’s complicated!

People think we are in the midst of a battle in our culture today between the traditional definition of marriage and the gay activists who want to redefine it. This is NOT TRUE! The traditional definition of marriage was abandoned more than 40 years ago and the “gay marriage” push of today is simply a delayed outcome of that old lost battle.

100 years ago, marriage would have typically been defines as follows: “Marriage is the freely entered and permanent union of a man and woman the nature of whose self sacrificial love for one another is demonstrated by the fact that their relationship is fundamentally ordered towards the creation and nurturing of new life (children).”

In the 60’s, few people noticed when the cultural definition of marriage was changed as follows: “Marriage is the public celebration and recognition of the feeling of love that exists between a man and a woman.”

The latter definition is surficially the same, but has been virtually emptied of the rich depth of meaning. It took another generation of people growing up having never known a deeper definition for the challenge “why is this limited to just men and women?” to gain traction in people’s minds.

In short, it has more to do with contraception than abortion.
 
manualman said:
In short, it has more to do with contraception than abortion.
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And I think it has more to do with the common thread of fornication. 😉 (Sexual license, combined with the autonomous mindset of the modern era: everyone is his or her own personal authority source; the moral source is one’s Self.) Contraception, for heterosexuals, merely enables that mindset to occur with more impunity; however, for homosexual activity, contraception is obviously unnecessary, so has nothing to do with enabling or causing the behavior.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
And I think it has more to do with the common thread of fornication. 😉 (Sexual license, combined with the autonomous mindset of the modern era: everyone is his or her own personal authority source; the moral source is one’s Self.) Contraception, for heterosexuals, merely enables that mindset to occur with more impunity; however, for homosexual activity, contraception is obviously unnecessary, so has nothing to do with enabling or causing the behavior.
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The thread didn’t ask if there was a link between abortion and homosexual inclinations. As I understood it, the OP asked if there was a link between abortion and general social acceptance of “gay marriage.”

The fact that contraception is meaningless for gay people is irrelevant to the discussion about the acceptance of ‘gay marriage’ in the larger culture (mostly hetero). The culture at large sees no problem with ‘gay marriage’ because the culture at large already adopted a sterilized definition of marriage long ago. The restriction of man/woman is merely a vestige left over from the lost traditional definition (see my above post).
 
Yes, I understand your point, manualman. I just think that the common thread is perceived individual autonomy regarding moral law and definitions of morality. I don’t see an underlying causation between abortion as a single category of moral autonomy, and same-sex unions, not at all.
 
I’ve always seen that line of reasoning as flawed. Sort a “The boogey-man is coming” kind of alarmism. I’ve yet to meet anybody who really sees morality in general as arbitrary or changeable at will. If I do, I plan to mug him and see what happens 😉 . The idea of right and wrong is pretty hard wired into humanity. More often what happens is that words are changed and definitions manipulated to soothe peoples conscience and allow them to fool themselves into not noticing the thing that is wrong.
 
No real connection, other than they’re both supported by liberals. This is more coincidence than anything else.
 
flatlanderjenn said:
Hello all!

I’ve heard before that there is a connection between abortion & same-sex unions. Those who support abortion also support same-sex unions, and people who support same-sex unions also support abortion.

But I don’t remember why. Is it a contraceptive/sterile mentality? Does it have to do with choosing what one does with one’s own body (although abortion is about the baby’s body, not the mother’s)? Can someone please explain it to me again?

Thank you.
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Sounds like an attempt to make homosexual people the cause for every ill in our society. Homosexuality has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, to do with abortion. Period. End-of-line.

Well, for now. I’m sure that if a genetic factor for homosexuality were ever found (which I doubt, being one so accursed, I know I wasn’t “born this way”), then abortion and homosexuality would be related in that potential homosexual could be aborted upon the discovery that the unborn person has the genetic factor.
 
manualman said:
Yes and no. It’s complicated!

People think we are in the midst of a battle in our culture today between the traditional definition of marriage and the gay activists who want to redefine it. This is NOT TRUE! The traditional definition of marriage was abandoned more than 40 years ago and the “gay marriage” push of today is simply a delayed outcome of that old lost battle.

100 years ago, marriage would have typically been defines as follows: “Marriage is the freely entered and permanent union of a man and woman the nature of whose self sacrificial love for one another is demonstrated by the fact that their relationship is fundamentally ordered towards the creation and nurturing of new life (children).”

In the 60’s, few people noticed when the cultural definition of marriage was changed as follows: “Marriage is the public celebration and recognition of the feeling of love that exists between a man and a woman.”

The latter definition is surficially the same, but has been virtually emptied of the rich depth of meaning. It took another generation of people growing up having never known a deeper definition for the challenge “why is this limited to just men and women?” to gain traction in people’s minds.

In short, it has more to do with contraception than abortion.
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Manual man, I really like your two definitions of marriage. Very well worded, and apropos.

That said, to address the original question, abortion, same-sex unions, free-will fornication, unwed cohabitation and the general idea that “We don’t need a piece of paper to live as a couple…” all boils down to life in a world of self-serving licentiousness, self-gratification and selfishness. (Sodom and Gomorrah revisited)

The entire world currently resembles a wild bull ravaging a china shop…
 
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