L
Long503
Guest
with you 100% on the trust. I couldn’t even imagine having sex with someone I don’t trust.
- Status
T
tonyrey
Guest
Can you imagine having sex with some one you don’t love?
T
tonyrey
Guest
Unlike sex it is impossible to define love. It cannot be explained scientifically because it is far more than a physical activity. It is the supreme achievement and surpasses any other phenomenon. The reason why love is so powerful is that it is not produced by physical events but by persons. It cannot be attributed to physical causes which are unaware of what they are doing. Love implies rational insight whereas sex is an instinct - although even in animals sexual selection is often based on preference for strength and beauty which lead to the development of the species.
Both love and sex are positive aspects of reality which are evidence of Design. They highlight the progressive, purposeful nature of evolution. The ingenious mechanism of sexual reproduction with its exquisite information system finally convinced the famous atheist Antony Flew after a lifetime of scepticism that Chance and Necessity are hopelessly inadequate explanations of the universe and the biosphere.
Yet love is not strictly logical. Pascal observed that “the heart has its reasons that reason does not have”. Beethoven wrote that his music goes “from the heart to the heart”. Reasoning cannot give us true wisdom because our intelligence and knowledge are limited. St Paul referred to the folly of the Cross - which is madness in the eyes of the world, yet it reveals the greatest love the world has ever known. Jesus gave everything for us because he was possessed! Not by the devil or lunacy but by clear-sighted and overwhelming passion for our welfare and happiness. Love is the highest form of knowledge and the most direct way to God:
“Love never fails… For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
Amen.
Both love and sex are positive aspects of reality which are evidence of Design. They highlight the progressive, purposeful nature of evolution. The ingenious mechanism of sexual reproduction with its exquisite information system finally convinced the famous atheist Antony Flew after a lifetime of scepticism that Chance and Necessity are hopelessly inadequate explanations of the universe and the biosphere.
Yet love is not strictly logical. Pascal observed that “the heart has its reasons that reason does not have”. Beethoven wrote that his music goes “from the heart to the heart”. Reasoning cannot give us true wisdom because our intelligence and knowledge are limited. St Paul referred to the folly of the Cross - which is madness in the eyes of the world, yet it reveals the greatest love the world has ever known. Jesus gave everything for us because he was possessed! Not by the devil or lunacy but by clear-sighted and overwhelming passion for our welfare and happiness. Love is the highest form of knowledge and the most direct way to God:
“Love never fails… For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
Amen.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Jesus was a man like us in all things except sin and experienced our instincts, desires and temptations. Yet like His mother He remained a virgin in spite of fictional accounts of a relationship with St Mary Magdalen. The obession with sex in our society prevents people from appreciating the value of chastity. Many believe celibacy is a sign of inadequacy or abnormality. They cannot understand how a person can be happy and fufilled without a sexual relationship even though many of the greatest human achievements have been due to single-minded dedication.
One of our most powerful instincts can be transformed into unselfish love for those who have no one to love them. Then sexual energy is not used to procreate children but sublimated to create works of spiritual beauty which outlast individual lives: orphanages, mission schools, hospitals, asylums, dispensaries, homes for the aged and hospices for the dying. The pursuit of sexual pleasure **for its own sake **is exposed in all its shallow and tawdry insignificance in the context of dedicated celibacy.
Jesus chose to live as a virgin because He dedicated all His energy to His mission in this world, knowing it was to be short-lived. How could He have taken on the responsibility of a wife and children when He knew foxes have holes but the Son of Man would have nowhere to lay His head - and be put to death for preaching the Gospel of love? He has inspired countless men and women to forsake married life and express their love for God and others with their entire personality. A united family is a dark reflection of what we shall see clearly in heaven: the perfect Love for all of us revealed on the Cross by Our Lord.
One of our most powerful instincts can be transformed into unselfish love for those who have no one to love them. Then sexual energy is not used to procreate children but sublimated to create works of spiritual beauty which outlast individual lives: orphanages, mission schools, hospitals, asylums, dispensaries, homes for the aged and hospices for the dying. The pursuit of sexual pleasure **for its own sake **is exposed in all its shallow and tawdry insignificance in the context of dedicated celibacy.
Jesus chose to live as a virgin because He dedicated all His energy to His mission in this world, knowing it was to be short-lived. How could He have taken on the responsibility of a wife and children when He knew foxes have holes but the Son of Man would have nowhere to lay His head - and be put to death for preaching the Gospel of love? He has inspired countless men and women to forsake married life and express their love for God and others with their entire personality. A united family is a dark reflection of what we shall see clearly in heaven: the perfect Love for all of us revealed on the Cross by Our Lord.
T
tonyrey
Guest
In this context “forsake” doesn’t mean “abandon”!
T
tonyrey
Guest
Both love and sex are highly dangerous aspects of life. Both pose threats to our survival in this world - and our destiny in the next. Love and sex are deeply intertwined: most of us are intended to live as spouses and parents with children rather than as single individuals with a vocation to live alone or as members of a community. Although each mode of life has its own hazards and temptations the sexual urge is so powerful it can destroy anyone, anywhere, at any age and at any time.
Othello is a fictional character but he represents many people who have been destroyed by love:
“Then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but, being wrought,
Perplex’d in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe…”
He killed Desdemona his wife and then stabbed himself because without her love he could bear to go on living or let her live. Instead of trusting her he made the fatal mistake of trusting Iago who deceived him into thinking she was unfaithful. The green-eyed monster overcame his better judgment and ruined both their lives. Yet not only husbands and wives but monarchs, statesmen, popes, priests, pop-stars and people in every walk of life have succumbed to lust, jealousy and despair through inability to exercise self-restraint. Like all the other virtues chastity is not a luxury but a necessity we ignore at our peril.
All morality is based on the value of life and the need for love. It is not a list of human conventions but a set of truths about personal development and fulfilment. If we cannot respect and love ourselves we cannot respect and love others. Sex is dangerous but so is love. It can be so powerful it can lead to our death, not only as a misfortune but as a gift and a blessing! Jesus is the supreme example of a man who brought His death on Himself not through weakness and cowardice but strength and courage.
He allowed Himself to be executed not through folly but wisdom. Although He could have used His supernatural power to defend Himself and destroy His enemies He knew it would merely perpetuate the vortex of evil, hatred and violence. Vendettas are not ended by revenge but by forgiveness. It is unnatural to love our enemies and let ourselves or others be killed. We have the right to defend ourselves but not if it is a greater evil than accepting an unjust death. Saving our own skins is pointless if we are only postponing the evil day and it leads to the torture and massacre of our compatriots.
Jesus liberated us from our obsession with the things of this world. To stake everything on this life is to distort our perspective of what really matters. Life without love is futile and meaningless. Many people have died fighting for freedom and justice, intangible realities that are more important than any material possessions. “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?” Jesus appreciated the value and beauty of life in this world without idolising it as the be-all and end-all of existence.
Jesus lost His life on earth and gained life for us in heaven with the power of His love. His example has changed the course of history, inspired countless people to sacrifice themselves for others and given us hope in a world which is otherwise doomed to despair. With the passing years the slogan “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die” becomes more and more absurd. How can we be merry if we believe we are going to be separated forever from those we love, the hideous injustice in the world will never be rectified and the tears of the afflicted will never be wiped away? It is not Christianity that takes joy out of life but materialism which does not recognise the primacy and reality of love…
“Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, who has compassion on you. - Isaiah 54:10
“Holy Mary, Mother of God,
you have given the world its true light,
Jesus, your Son – the Son of God.
You abandoned yourself completely
to God’s call
and thus became a wellspring
of the goodness which flows forth from him.
Show us Jesus. Lead us to him.
Teach us to know and love him,
so that we too can become
capable of true love
and be fountains of living water
in the midst of a thirsting world.” - Pope Benedict XVI
Amen
Othello is a fictional character but he represents many people who have been destroyed by love:
“Then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but, being wrought,
Perplex’d in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe…”
He killed Desdemona his wife and then stabbed himself because without her love he could bear to go on living or let her live. Instead of trusting her he made the fatal mistake of trusting Iago who deceived him into thinking she was unfaithful. The green-eyed monster overcame his better judgment and ruined both their lives. Yet not only husbands and wives but monarchs, statesmen, popes, priests, pop-stars and people in every walk of life have succumbed to lust, jealousy and despair through inability to exercise self-restraint. Like all the other virtues chastity is not a luxury but a necessity we ignore at our peril.
All morality is based on the value of life and the need for love. It is not a list of human conventions but a set of truths about personal development and fulfilment. If we cannot respect and love ourselves we cannot respect and love others. Sex is dangerous but so is love. It can be so powerful it can lead to our death, not only as a misfortune but as a gift and a blessing! Jesus is the supreme example of a man who brought His death on Himself not through weakness and cowardice but strength and courage.
He allowed Himself to be executed not through folly but wisdom. Although He could have used His supernatural power to defend Himself and destroy His enemies He knew it would merely perpetuate the vortex of evil, hatred and violence. Vendettas are not ended by revenge but by forgiveness. It is unnatural to love our enemies and let ourselves or others be killed. We have the right to defend ourselves but not if it is a greater evil than accepting an unjust death. Saving our own skins is pointless if we are only postponing the evil day and it leads to the torture and massacre of our compatriots.
Jesus liberated us from our obsession with the things of this world. To stake everything on this life is to distort our perspective of what really matters. Life without love is futile and meaningless. Many people have died fighting for freedom and justice, intangible realities that are more important than any material possessions. “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?” Jesus appreciated the value and beauty of life in this world without idolising it as the be-all and end-all of existence.
Jesus lost His life on earth and gained life for us in heaven with the power of His love. His example has changed the course of history, inspired countless people to sacrifice themselves for others and given us hope in a world which is otherwise doomed to despair. With the passing years the slogan “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die” becomes more and more absurd. How can we be merry if we believe we are going to be separated forever from those we love, the hideous injustice in the world will never be rectified and the tears of the afflicted will never be wiped away? It is not Christianity that takes joy out of life but materialism which does not recognise the primacy and reality of love…
“Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, who has compassion on you. - Isaiah 54:10
“Holy Mary, Mother of God,
you have given the world its true light,
Jesus, your Son – the Son of God.
You abandoned yourself completely
to God’s call
and thus became a wellspring
of the goodness which flows forth from him.
Show us Jesus. Lead us to him.
Teach us to know and love him,
so that we too can become
capable of true love
and be fountains of living water
in the midst of a thirsting world.” - Pope Benedict XVI
Amen
T
tonyrey
Guest
Love created sex but sex obviously didn’t create love! Love is the most powerful creative force that exists whereas sex is one of the most powerful forces in nature. That doesn’t mean sex is only physical. There is interaction between the mind and the body which affects our personality. Our gender deeply influences our thoughts, emotions and decisions. It is notoriously difficult for a man and a woman to understand each other because our outlooks on life are determined to some extent by our biological functions. When mating the male gives and the female receives.The roles of a father and mother are poles apart!
At the animal level parents don’t stay together when it isn’t necessary for the upbringing of their offspring. We know from bitter experience how disastrous it is for human couples to separate even when they have no children. When families disintegrate society is destabilised and loses its coherence. Sexual permissiveness destroys life even before birth. For those who survive in the womb it leads to isolation from the moment of birth to the moment of death. In modern cities there are lonely people at every age and in every walk of life largely because of the destructive power of the urge to mate…
The only solution is love. It is the only force that can lead to lasting unity and understanding. It is the highest form of knowledge and the deepest source of fulfilment. Love expressed sexually can give us a foretaste of heaven but sex expressed lovelessly is often a foretaste of hell! Bestiality is incompatible with spirituality. When life is reduced to the pursuit of pleasure it eventually becomes pointless because the body can never be an adequate substitute for the soul. Love is the reason why we exist>
To accept love is to have everything - because God is Love - and to reject the reality of love is to become nothing.
Corruptio optima pessima.
The higher we can climb the further we can fall…
At the animal level parents don’t stay together when it isn’t necessary for the upbringing of their offspring. We know from bitter experience how disastrous it is for human couples to separate even when they have no children. When families disintegrate society is destabilised and loses its coherence. Sexual permissiveness destroys life even before birth. For those who survive in the womb it leads to isolation from the moment of birth to the moment of death. In modern cities there are lonely people at every age and in every walk of life largely because of the destructive power of the urge to mate…
The only solution is love. It is the only force that can lead to lasting unity and understanding. It is the highest form of knowledge and the deepest source of fulfilment. Love expressed sexually can give us a foretaste of heaven but sex expressed lovelessly is often a foretaste of hell! Bestiality is incompatible with spirituality. When life is reduced to the pursuit of pleasure it eventually becomes pointless because the body can never be an adequate substitute for the soul. Love is the reason why we exist>
To accept love is to have everything - because God is Love - and to reject the reality of love is to become nothing.
Corruptio optima pessima.
The higher we can climb the further we can fall…
T
tonyrey
Guest
In our secular society the obsession with sex is reaching alarming proportions. The latest news is that thousands of children in England are being sexually exploited by gangs. Current estimates say up to 10,000 children could be defiled but the true number could be much higher. In just thirty-three local authority areas more than 1,000 children are known to have been sexually exploited on one day alone and they come from every race and class of society.
There seem to be no limits to which individuals will sink for profit and pleasure. Nothing is sacred, not even the lives of the unborn or the immature. The false gods which dominate advertising are well and truly being worshipped by the Godless. We have become the victims not only of the machines we have invented but of substitutes for God. Sex dominates many people to such an extent it has become a form of idolatry as pernicious and pervasive as Mammon. Lust and greed are joined in unholy wedlock and propagate needless misery and suffering among children in our towns and cities on an unprecedented scale since the Victorian era.
Love has disappeared in the minds and hearts of those who ruin the lives of innocent children. We have more than a glimpse of the horrific reality of evil in their depravity and callousness. It is absurd to excuse them on the grounds of mitigating circumstances such as ignorance, deprivation or abnormality. They know exactly what they are doing, reject any higher authority, live solely for themselves like unnatural beasts and reveal the absurdity of “evolutionary ethics”. The simple truth is that the buck stops with them. Their diabolical behaviour is due to their deliberate, premeditated decision to treat children like disposable objects used for erotic satisfaction and financial remuneration. The road to hell is not paved with good intentions but an infernal lack of love for anyone but oneself…
There seem to be no limits to which individuals will sink for profit and pleasure. Nothing is sacred, not even the lives of the unborn or the immature. The false gods which dominate advertising are well and truly being worshipped by the Godless. We have become the victims not only of the machines we have invented but of substitutes for God. Sex dominates many people to such an extent it has become a form of idolatry as pernicious and pervasive as Mammon. Lust and greed are joined in unholy wedlock and propagate needless misery and suffering among children in our towns and cities on an unprecedented scale since the Victorian era.
Love has disappeared in the minds and hearts of those who ruin the lives of innocent children. We have more than a glimpse of the horrific reality of evil in their depravity and callousness. It is absurd to excuse them on the grounds of mitigating circumstances such as ignorance, deprivation or abnormality. They know exactly what they are doing, reject any higher authority, live solely for themselves like unnatural beasts and reveal the absurdity of “evolutionary ethics”. The simple truth is that the buck stops with them. Their diabolical behaviour is due to their deliberate, premeditated decision to treat children like disposable objects used for erotic satisfaction and financial remuneration. The road to hell is not paved with good intentions but an infernal lack of love for anyone but oneself…
T
tonyrey
Guest
DH Lawrence is best known for his novel “Lady Chatterley’s Lover” for which the publishers Penguin Books were prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act. It contains explicit descriptions of sexual acts and words not used in polite society - which resulted in its author being regarded as a pornographer even though his work has literary merit. He had rejected Christianity in favour of his own creed:
“Be a good animal, true to your animal instincts…My great religion is a belief in the blood, the flesh, as being wiser than the intellect. We can go wrong in our minds. But what our blood feels and believes and says, is always true. The intellect is only a bit and a bridle.”
On 2nd November 1960 the jury returned a verdict of “'Not Guilty” and his novel was available to the public, ushering in the age of sexual permissiveness in British society. So it is tempting to condemn Lawrence as an evil influence but that is a superficial view. When he wrote “I shall always be a priest of love” he did not mean promiscuous sex because he also wrote:
“The one woman who never gives herself is your free woman, who is always giving herself.”
And he recognised the reality of evil:
“This is the very worst wickedness, that we refuse to acknowledge the passionate evil that is in us. This makes us secret and rotten.”
Lawrence’s concept of love was not physical but spiritual! He believed that in every living thing there is the desire for love and that we are persons who exist for love:
“One must learn to love, and go through a good deal of suffering to get to it… and the journey is always towards the other soul.”
He suffered ill health and died at the age of forty-four. His hardships ennobled him and made him realise the purpose of life is not pleasure but mystical union with the world. Yet it is clear that he wasn’t a pantheist from his statements that “The proper study of mankind is man in his relation to his deity” and “In the very darkest continent of the body there is God. And from Him issue the first dark rays of our feeling, wordless, and utterly previous to words.”
In one of his most moving poems, ‘Pax’, written while he was dying of tuberculosis he wrote: “All that matters is to be one with the living God/ Like a cat asleep on a chair/ at peace, in peace / feeling the presence of the living God.” Nor was death for him the end of life:
“The winds of the afterwards kiss us into the blossom of manhood… and after the painful, painful experience of dying there comes an after-gladness, a strange joy”…
DH Lawrence was a mystic - like St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross - and revolted by the materialism in British society. His suffering had made him put sex into its proper context and taught him the message of Jesus that love is what matters most in life. His philosophy is summed up in his words:
“Tragedy is like strong acid – it dissolves away all but the very gold of truth.”
The religion of the body gave way to the religion of the soul…
“Be a good animal, true to your animal instincts…My great religion is a belief in the blood, the flesh, as being wiser than the intellect. We can go wrong in our minds. But what our blood feels and believes and says, is always true. The intellect is only a bit and a bridle.”
On 2nd November 1960 the jury returned a verdict of “'Not Guilty” and his novel was available to the public, ushering in the age of sexual permissiveness in British society. So it is tempting to condemn Lawrence as an evil influence but that is a superficial view. When he wrote “I shall always be a priest of love” he did not mean promiscuous sex because he also wrote:
“The one woman who never gives herself is your free woman, who is always giving herself.”
And he recognised the reality of evil:
“This is the very worst wickedness, that we refuse to acknowledge the passionate evil that is in us. This makes us secret and rotten.”
Lawrence’s concept of love was not physical but spiritual! He believed that in every living thing there is the desire for love and that we are persons who exist for love:
“One must learn to love, and go through a good deal of suffering to get to it… and the journey is always towards the other soul.”
He suffered ill health and died at the age of forty-four. His hardships ennobled him and made him realise the purpose of life is not pleasure but mystical union with the world. Yet it is clear that he wasn’t a pantheist from his statements that “The proper study of mankind is man in his relation to his deity” and “In the very darkest continent of the body there is God. And from Him issue the first dark rays of our feeling, wordless, and utterly previous to words.”
In one of his most moving poems, ‘Pax’, written while he was dying of tuberculosis he wrote: “All that matters is to be one with the living God/ Like a cat asleep on a chair/ at peace, in peace / feeling the presence of the living God.” Nor was death for him the end of life:
“The winds of the afterwards kiss us into the blossom of manhood… and after the painful, painful experience of dying there comes an after-gladness, a strange joy”…
DH Lawrence was a mystic - like St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross - and revolted by the materialism in British society. His suffering had made him put sex into its proper context and taught him the message of Jesus that love is what matters most in life. His philosophy is summed up in his words:
“Tragedy is like strong acid – it dissolves away all but the very gold of truth.”
The religion of the body gave way to the religion of the soul…
T
tonyrey
Guest
If there is any doubt as to the meaning of this sentence it is removed by Lawrence’s statements:
“My God, these folks don’t know how to love - that’s why they love so easily.”
“My whole working philosophy is that the only stable happiness for mankind is that it shall live married in blessed union to woman-kind - intimacy, physical and psychical between a man and his wife.”
L
levinas12
Guest
L
levinas12
Guest
I’d like to raise anew the question of the connection between love and sex. In particular, why is sexual pleasure necessary in the first place? It is conceivable that the procreative aspect of marriage could take place without sexual pleasure. For example, it is not an established biological fact that female sexual pleasure facilitates conception. And, arguably,in a different biological world, the emission of sperm could take place without male sexual pleasure.
Also it would seem that the unitive aspect of marriage could occur without sexual pleasure.
So why did God insert sexual pleasure into the equation?
If this is an inappropriate subject, I will cease and desist. But I think JPII’s theology of the body places particular weight on martial sexual pleasure, arguing that it involves a unique personal disclosure of husband to wife, and wife to husband, thus, that it is “cognitive”, with its own “intentionality” (to speak in phenomenological terms). As Genesis puts it, Adam “knew” Eve.
L
levinas12
Guest
Tonyrey, I think my posting above is a segue to your quotes here from D. H. Lawrence.
L
levinas12
Guest
T
tonyrey
Guest
Your typo makes it sound as if soldiers are involved in the proceedings! Forgive me but I couldn’t resist that remark.
Some species do reproduce without it but pleasure is certainly an incentive to mate, without which there would be far fewer births. But - as you imply - it is simplistic to regard pleasure as merely a device for attaining a goal. The world is full of luxuries which are not essential for survival. Hunger and thirst impel us to eat and drink whether or not we enjoy the taste of food and liquid nourishment. Colours are not necessary because shades of grey are sufficient to enable life to continue. The beauty and richness of the universe reveal the power and glory of our Creator:
“Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
A sight so touching in its majesty.”
Wordsworth’s words refer to the city of London - as it was in his lifetime - but they are even more applicable to the wonders of nature. The glorious feathers of the peacock are not due to the blind meanderings of mechanistic processes. They are certainly a device for attracting the female yet they are far more than that. They are evidence of the creativity of living beings even when they are not fully aware of what they are doing. The peacock obviously enjoys displaying his plumage - without always needing to succeed in his aim - but the act of mating is the ice on the cake!
If this is the case with birds how much more must it be true of persons in whom, as DH Lawrence remarked, the journey is towards the other soul. Adam “knew” Eve - and Eve knew Adam - because love is the highest form of knowledge. Physical unity reflects spiritual unity which embraces every aspect of personal existence: intellectual, affective and volitional. In other words reason, emotion and will are all blended in an ecstasy unique in human experience. For most people this occurs in when the bodies of a man and woman who love each other are sexually united but it also occurs when a man or woman are spiritually united to God.
One of the most vivid depictions of this mystical state is Bernini’s sculpture the Ecstasy of Saint Teresa. It was based on her description of her vision of an angel plunging a golden spear into her heart:
“The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying.”
Some art critics in our sex-obsessed society have dismissed her experience as the climax of a frustrated nun, thereby demonstrating that their mental horizon is restricted to the things of this world. The reality of spiritual joy and fulfilment in the presence of God are quite beyond the comprehension of those who believe we are animals without a soul. There is a far more realistic assessment:
"Robert Harbison, however, has expressed his doubt that Bernini, a follower of the mystical exercises of followers of St. Ignatius of Loyola, would have intended to depict here an episode of lust fulfilled. Instead, Bernini aims to express the facial and body equivalents of a state of divine joy: “It is an astonishing passage that the post-Freudian reader cannot help sniggering at—doesn’t the nun realize she is describing mainly sexual longings? Indeed, a few lines later she recognizes that it is like bodily seduction, but only as an opening or avenue for another kind of experience. Human sexuality or even the senses cannot have the primacy for Teresa or Bernini which they do for us. The shocking reciprocal movement which grabs our attention so forcibly is not intended as sensational; it aims to jar us into another place entirely.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_Saint_Teresa
In those days people were not exposed to the sexploitation that so often makes sex a substitute for religion - and also makes them think religion is a substitute for sex!
L
levinas12
Guest
Tonyrey, thanks for pointing out the typo … it’s hilarious …Your typo makes it sound as if soldiers are involved in the proceedings! Forgive me but I couldn’t resist that remark.
L
levinas12
Guest
L
levinas12
Guest
The commentary on this sculpture in the 20th century provides a good example why our culture has gone awry.
The sculpture is not a matter of libidinal discharge but disclosure between persons (one human, the other divine).
It’s telling that ecstasy is seen as just a neuro-muscular release of impersonal energy (Reich). Just the opposite. Ecstasy is, or should be, “cognitive” in a way that is so much profound than anything in science.
I think JPII theology of the body recognizes this. Most of us are not mystics. But the marital embrace is a foretaste of the personal disclosure that will take place in heaven. It’s not surprising that popular love songs (at least the old-fashioned ones) mention heaven a lot.
The other animals are driven by instinct. Their sexual pleasure is much closer to the Reichian release of impersonal energy or libido. Disclosure of persons is not involved.
With human beings, the instinct, to use a Hegelian term, undergoes a marvelous aufhebung, a lifting up into a higher synthesis … so that sex becomes an act of disclosure of the truth of the other person …
L
levinas12
Guest
I meant to add that lack of disclosure is what makes various sexual activities (masturbation, pornography, fornication) wrong.
These activities are serious sins because the person who engages in them may eventually become incapable of disclosure, i.e., incapable of experiencing the truth of the other person.
Contraception is wrong because the truth of the other person (as father, as mother) is occluded.
These activities are serious sins because the person who engages in them may eventually become incapable of disclosure, i.e., incapable of experiencing the truth of the other person.
Contraception is wrong because the truth of the other person (as father, as mother) is occluded.
T
tonyrey
Guest
A vital point. Those who believe we are no more than animals implicitly reject their status as persons! Their only possible subterfuge is to class apes as persons…
- Status