Conquering secularism by showing off your faith

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I
Regardless, secularism seems to have taken over the world and perhaps we Catholics are now more like those of the early church among pagans.

I think the situation is much worse for us. The pagans were religious and they were people who believed in absolute truth. Religion could be discussed, especially with more educated people versed in Greek thought. They were rational. The pagans of today are atheists for the most part, are not educated and are relativists in morals and ontology. It is not possible to discuss religion with them because they don’t think - they merely feel and disapprove of people challenging their feelings. I am not sure how to evangelise this lot. Witnessing and praying for the spark I guess. God can work with minimal openess to His grace.

 

[casslean]

I think the situation is much worse for us. The pagans were religious and they were people who believed in absolute truth. Religion could be discussed, especially with more educated people versed in Greek thought. They were rational. The pagans of today are atheists for the most part, are not educated and are relativists in morals and ontology. It is not possible to discuss religion with them because they don’t think - they merely feel and disapprove of people challenging their feelings. I am not sure how to evangelise this lot. Witnessing and praying for the spark I guess. God can work with minimal openess to His grace.

I think it’s unwise to make assumptions about people as a group. I joined the church after finishing law school, and many of my friends and colleagues - who were highly educated and intelligent individuals - saw it as a betrayal of my education and intelligence that I was choosing this course. They are not stupid; they are simply conditioned to believe that rejecting faith is somehow the hallmark of intelligence. It’s difficult to work against conditioning.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think it’s unwise to make assumptions about people as a group. (…) They are not stupid; they are simply conditioned to believe that rejecting faith is somehow the hallmark of intelligence. It’s difficult to work against conditioning.

Yet here you are saying that they are all conditioned to believe certain things. Of course they are, I am i. complete agreement with you on this. And I don’t think it is a generalisation but simply a valid observation.

I never said they were stupid. Just uneducated, irrational and atheistic in their outlook. I have a PhD so high degrees don’t really impress me. There are many people with fancy degrees - law included- who are uneducated in a traditional sense. Modern university degrees pretty much prepare us for work, but they do not educate us. That is what I meant by uneducated.

 

[casslean]

Yet here you are saying that they are all conditioned to believe certain things. Of course they are, I am i. complete agreement with you on this. And I don’t think it is a generalisation but simply a valid observation.

I never said they were stupid. Just uneducated, irrational and atheistic in their outlook. I have a PhD so high degrees don’t really impress me. There are many people with fancy degrees - law included- who are uneducated in a traditional sense. Modern university degrees pretty much prepare us for work, but they do not educate us. That is what I meant by uneducated.

I think it is important in this debate not to make blanket statements or use imprecise, inflammatory language. “Uneducated” has a specific meaning, and anyone who has successfully achieved advanced degrees cannot be said to be uneducated, regardless of whether or not you personally choose to value those degrees. In doing so, it only creates more distance between the two sides.

By instead recognizing that individuals have to fight against societal conditioning to accept faith, we can acknowledge the challenges that people do face today, and why secularism is growing. We can acknowledge that people who choose secularism are not choosing it because they are irrational, or unsophisticated, or just less able to grasp complex and nuanced topics than those of us who choose faith. They just haven’t won the fight against their conditioning yet. Thus, we are more inclined to treat them with charity and kindness and create a better witness for our faith.