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Sarcelle
Guest
I spent my earlier years in Protestant churches and later came back to the Catholic Church. I agree with your observations.
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HelenRose
Guest
As a convert I have to say: For every con that I could come up, I came up with three pros to counter balance it.
Catholicism is beautiful in it’s most simplest of teachings and as deep and unfathomable as the ocean in it’s complexity.
I guess the con is, no matter how much one studies one can never reach the end of what there is to learn. I am always finding a new door to a whole new world in Catholicism.
Catholicism is beautiful in it’s most simplest of teachings and as deep and unfathomable as the ocean in it’s complexity.
I guess the con is, no matter how much one studies one can never reach the end of what there is to learn. I am always finding a new door to a whole new world in Catholicism.
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Hatikvah
Guest
A pro is that you may simply claim papal infallibility and descent from St. Peter as the justification for your Catholicism.
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ArielRussu
Guest
You don’t have to agree but this is my observation/(name removed by moderator)ut:
When you get to heaven Gods not going to be interested in how you went to church ever Sunday and never missed a Mass, prayed the rosary ever night, went to confession every week, gave up meat on Fridays and fasted correctly every Lent. He wants to know you believe in Him and accept Jesus as your savior. He wants too see that you kept His commandments, loved your fellow neighbors as He would and overall did everything with His glory in mind. He wants to know you loved Him above all else. Of course, everyone in some way will fall short of His expectations, we are all human. I believe there are different ways to reach the truth and how we are brought to God, follow and worship Him. Different Christianity sects are about people going about different ways of worshipping and building a relationship with God, as that’s most important. Once you give your life to God and accept Jesus as your Lord and savior the works will follow as you do it to build a relationship with Him. As a relationship with God/Jesus, or at least wanting one, should be the basis of every Christian (Bible is foundation of faith) or Catholic (church is foundation of faith). It shouldn’t be the other way around.
In Catholicism I’ve found that with all the traditions and man made rules, people end up spending more time just going through the motions in order to be a “good Catholic” than they actually spent getting to know Jesus. For they believe that if the works are all done correctly, then they get to go to heaven because there actions and commitments please Him. Regardless of whether or not the church says they don’t teach that works get you to heaven, I’ve found that with all the emphasis on, you must do this, this and this or you are committing a sin against God or you are displeasing God by not doing this, this and this, reinforces Catholics to perform works that are based on man made rules and interpretations. Numerous ideas that are not even biblical (ex. Infant baptism, confession to a priest, no meat on Fridays during Lent, etc…) They get so wrapped up in going through the motions they forget that wanting and building a relationship with God/Jesus is most important.
From what I’ve found in my readings and after being lead by God, I now believe that the Bible is the foundation of truth and main authority, not the church. If it’s not in the bible it’s not of God, it is of man who may have good intentions or may just use it to hold power over its followers.
- Cold, no sense of community
- Impersonal (can’t really relate too) sermons
- Churches man made rules and traditions seem to take take precedence over teachings of the Bible.
When you get to heaven Gods not going to be interested in how you went to church ever Sunday and never missed a Mass, prayed the rosary ever night, went to confession every week, gave up meat on Fridays and fasted correctly every Lent. He wants to know you believe in Him and accept Jesus as your savior. He wants too see that you kept His commandments, loved your fellow neighbors as He would and overall did everything with His glory in mind. He wants to know you loved Him above all else. Of course, everyone in some way will fall short of His expectations, we are all human. I believe there are different ways to reach the truth and how we are brought to God, follow and worship Him. Different Christianity sects are about people going about different ways of worshipping and building a relationship with God, as that’s most important. Once you give your life to God and accept Jesus as your Lord and savior the works will follow as you do it to build a relationship with Him. As a relationship with God/Jesus, or at least wanting one, should be the basis of every Christian (Bible is foundation of faith) or Catholic (church is foundation of faith). It shouldn’t be the other way around.
In Catholicism I’ve found that with all the traditions and man made rules, people end up spending more time just going through the motions in order to be a “good Catholic” than they actually spent getting to know Jesus. For they believe that if the works are all done correctly, then they get to go to heaven because there actions and commitments please Him. Regardless of whether or not the church says they don’t teach that works get you to heaven, I’ve found that with all the emphasis on, you must do this, this and this or you are committing a sin against God or you are displeasing God by not doing this, this and this, reinforces Catholics to perform works that are based on man made rules and interpretations. Numerous ideas that are not even biblical (ex. Infant baptism, confession to a priest, no meat on Fridays during Lent, etc…) They get so wrapped up in going through the motions they forget that wanting and building a relationship with God/Jesus is most important.
From what I’ve found in my readings and after being lead by God, I now believe that the Bible is the foundation of truth and main authority, not the church. If it’s not in the bible it’s not of God, it is of man who may have good intentions or may just use it to hold power over its followers.
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RPRPsych
Guest
One big con in my book: a single lifetime is simply not enough time to even get a handle on the wealth of spiritual riches (Saints’ lives and writings, devotions, traditions, theology, and so on) that the Catholic Church offers. 
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pensmama87
Guest
Yes!One big con in my book: a single lifetime is simply not enough time to even get a handle on the wealth of spiritual riches (Saints’ lives and writings, devotions, traditions, theology, and so on) that the Catholic Church offers.
I’m not able to delude myself into thinking I will ever understand all of it or know all there is to know.
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rfournier103
Guest
I agree.One big con in my book: a single lifetime is simply not enough time to even get a handle on the wealth of spiritual riches (Saints’ lives and writings, devotions, traditions, theology, and so on) that the Catholic Church offers.
One could spend his entire life committed to nothing but that, and not cover half of it.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
and yet you still label yourself Roman Catholic.
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ArielRussu
Guest
Thanks for reminding me that I still had myself listed as Roman Catholic. Forgot I still had myself listed as one. I just removed it.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
ok. I was just confused reading your post when I saw Roman Catholic above.
good luck on your journey!
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rfournier103
Guest
Part One
What so-called man-made rules and traditions take precedence over the Holy Bible? There is some kind of biblical basis for almost everything in the Church, and I’m actually very curious to your thoughts on this and I’d love to discuss it further with you. Perhaps you could start a thread about it? Or I could and you can join me in discussing it.
Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?
The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another (James 5:16). It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.
If a Catholic does this weekly, it isn’t a bad thing as long as he is not scrupulous… And it’s BIBLICAL.
Also, Jesus talks about fasting in Matthew 6:16-18. Especially verse 18 - …so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you
Repayment for fasting? Looks like fasting is Biblical, too.
Church, like anything else, is what you make of it. Are you involved in your parish at all? That is an EXCELLENT way to get to know your fellow parishioners. I have found that getting involved is really the only way to achieve true fellowship. People are less social in the 21st century than ever. If one DOESN’T get involved with their parish, nobody is going to walk up to him and say; “hey, I’ve never met you before. How’d you like to come over for dinner today?” Is that what you’re expecting?
That’s too bad. I find 99% of the homilies I hear are VERY valuable to both my spiritual life and my life outside of Church. Almost every priest I’ve been fortunate enough to hear the Gospel from has had a profound way of making the Life of Christ relevant to ME. On more than a few occasions, it sounded like he wrote his homily just for me and my situation.
It may seem that way to you, but not the case. I married a former Protestant who is now a very happy Catholic - and a better one than I - who used to say all the things you’re saying now.
What so-called man-made rules and traditions take precedence over the Holy Bible? There is some kind of biblical basis for almost everything in the Church, and I’m actually very curious to your thoughts on this and I’d love to discuss it further with you. Perhaps you could start a thread about it? Or I could and you can join me in discussing it.
What works and what rules are you talking about? The thing about Catholicism is is that it requires change to live as God and Christ wants us to. Receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is more personal than any other Christian sect ever gets.
Yes He is. See the 3rd Commandment - Remember to keep holy the LORD’S Day. What is more holy than going to Mass???
How does intercessory prayer hurt? It only helps.
In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this,** “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”**
Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?
The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another (James 5:16). It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.
If a Catholic does this weekly, it isn’t a bad thing as long as he is not scrupulous… And it’s BIBLICAL.
Sacrificing (abstaining from) flesh (meat) on Fridays is a reminder of and a way to honor Jesus Christ who sacrificed His OWN Flesh for US. I don’t see how this DOESN’T bring one closer to Jesus…
Also, Jesus talks about fasting in Matthew 6:16-18. Especially verse 18 - …so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you
Repayment for fasting? Looks like fasting is Biblical, too.
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rfournier103
Guest
Part Two
THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth - NOT the Bible. (Please see 1 Timothy 3:15) The Bible says the CHURCH is the foundation of TRUTH. The Bible DOES NOT say that the Bible is the foundation of truth.
The Bible as we know it today was approved by the Church in the year 393 at the Synod of Hippo. It was re-appoved and ratified again by the Council of Carthage in 397. I’m afraid the Church is older than the Bible. How did Christians ever get along without the Bible? They had to rely on THE CHURCH.
Infant Baptism: Luke 18:15-17 ~ People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. Jesus, however, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”
Also, there is NOWHERE in the Bible that says infants shouldn’t be baptized. If you believe in original sin as Catholics do, then baptism is a very good idea. And Biblical.
Confession to a priest: We already covered that one. See above. John 20:21-23.
Fasting: We already covered that, too. Matthew 25. Fasting IS Biblical.
The Church and not the Bible is the foundation of truth: Yep. We covered that as well - 1 Timothy 3:15.
100% correct.
Also correct.
YOU believe there are different ways to reach the truth? Where in the Bible does it say that? As far as I know, Jesus founded ONE Church. NOT several (Matthew 16:18).
Catholic teaching is that our good deeds are a DIRECT RESULT of doing as CHRIST commanded us. Again, we do have a relationship with Christ and serve HIM by doing as HE commands us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc…
Are you saying that Catholics aren’t Christians?
THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth - NOT the Bible. (Please see 1 Timothy 3:15) The Bible says the CHURCH is the foundation of TRUTH. The Bible DOES NOT say that the Bible is the foundation of truth.
The Bible as we know it today was approved by the Church in the year 393 at the Synod of Hippo. It was re-appoved and ratified again by the Council of Carthage in 397. I’m afraid the Church is older than the Bible. How did Christians ever get along without the Bible? They had to rely on THE CHURCH.
Lets recap -
Infant Baptism: Luke 18:15-17 ~ People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. Jesus, however, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”
Also, there is NOWHERE in the Bible that says infants shouldn’t be baptized. If you believe in original sin as Catholics do, then baptism is a very good idea. And Biblical.
Confession to a priest: We already covered that one. See above. John 20:21-23.
Fasting: We already covered that, too. Matthew 25. Fasting IS Biblical.
The Church and not the Bible is the foundation of truth: Yep. We covered that as well - 1 Timothy 3:15.
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Lea101
Guest
A priest once talked about how Catholics/Protestants whine about how ‘cold’ the church seem compared to Protestants’ (you know how they welcome you in and treat you really nicely). He said that your family don’t welcome you and fuss about every time you come back home
it’s a silly response which annoyed the protestants there
it’s a silly response which annoyed the protestants there
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StudentMI
Guest
Speaking as someone who did get involved at my former parish, I can say this is not always the case. I didn’t join every group I could. Just a couple. I can fool myself for a while sometimes, but not forever.
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njlisa
Guest
Oh, I don’t think it’s silly at all. I grew up as a Southern Baptist and I very much felt like I belonged. It was like a family.A priest once talked about how Catholics/Protestants whine about how ‘cold’ the church seem compared to Protestants’ (you know how they welcome you in and treat you really nicely). He said that your family don’t welcome you and fuss about every time you come back home
it’s a silly response which annoyed the protestants there
When I joined the Catholic Church, I did take advantage of some of the groups. But they were never like the Baptist church I grew up in. And oh boy, I miss weekly Sunday school, for children and adults. Honestly, I have better fellowship in this group than any other Catholic group I’ve been in. It’s a lifetime thing. However, I’ve been a Catholic for 26 years. But there’s no way I could ever be a Protestant again.
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Jennifer132
Guest
I’ll reply as someone hoping to enter the Church this Spring. I come from a devout Protestant background (reformed).
As much as I feel like I’m doing the right thing coming home and as much as I’ve learned already, there are some things that are really hard too.
Potentially losing friends or family that don’t understand or can’t accept Catholicism
Feeling like there is SO much to learn and you’ve wasted so many years learning something else and now must relearn many things
A seriously long wait to join the Church, especially if you start exploring the Church in the Spring, you are a bit late to start RCIA and must wait even longer
Feeling like you can’t wait to go to Mass and yet you may not participate fully in the Mass since you aren’t a Catholic yet
As much as I feel like I’m doing the right thing coming home and as much as I’ve learned already, there are some things that are really hard too.
Potentially losing friends or family that don’t understand or can’t accept Catholicism
Feeling like there is SO much to learn and you’ve wasted so many years learning something else and now must relearn many things
A seriously long wait to join the Church, especially if you start exploring the Church in the Spring, you are a bit late to start RCIA and must wait even longer
Feeling like you can’t wait to go to Mass and yet you may not participate fully in the Mass since you aren’t a Catholic yet
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redbaron162
Guest
I appreciate you taking the time to write out your feelings, however your last line seems a bit contradictory to me. You state that you believe the Bible is the foundation of truth, not the church. However the bible says the opposite: "you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. " 1 Tim 3:15.
As to your other points:
As far as coldness I believe this can be found in any community at times, and the best cure for it is to invest yourself and get involved in it. Join some church organizations (such as St. Vincent De Paul society or Knight of Columbus or Columbiettes) and you will undoubtedly find a rich a vibrant group of new friends.
As for sermons I cant really speak to as it will of course depend upon the speaker. However I find that most sermons regardless if the priest is a better or worse speaker is at least decent if you are very attentive. If not feel free to try out another nearby Parish. Regardless of the sermon the Eucharist is the “pillar and summit of our faith” (JP2) and is the greatest focal point.
As far as church traditions these would have to be discussed on a individual basis however I will say many of the traditions that appear to be church made are usually either directly or indirectly founded in the scriptures. As far as Church traditions in general the scriptures do say, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15
I hope this may help you some and would be interested in any other concepts of the faith that are a struggle for you.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
God bless you on your journey! :angel1::harp::heaven:
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I don’t feel Catholic churches are cold. My priest is very warm, friendly Nigerian man. NOW, try going to a Protestant church as a Catholic in the south. They aren’t exactly going to treat you well (you’re not really “saved”, after all, and please note, I do not mean this for all Protestants, some are very tolerant of my Catholicism)
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Tommy999
Guest
I have a great deal of respect for Catholics and at times I could see myself becoming one.
Pros:
Pros:
- It is the branch of Christianity most connected to the Early Church Fathers, in my view.
- It is logical that Peter was ‘The Rock’ spoken of by Jesus, not just faith in Jesus.
- Confession sounds like a very practical and healing sacrament.
- I can assent to Transubstantiation in the Eucharist where it is not just a symbol.
- Rich Tradition dating back thousands of years where they fill in the big gap between the apostles and the Protestant Reformation.
- I believe that salvation is a lifelong process like running a race as Apostle Paul says, not a one-time event, although a spiritual awakening or kick-start by accepting Jesus as Savior and Lord “Billy Graham” style is an honorable way to come to faith in Jesus.
- I can assent to Purgatory.
- I believe that the Virgin Mary deserves honor and all people should call her “Blessed”.
- I can assent to asking Mary and the saints to pray for me and others, although I prefer to pray to Jesus directly.
- Catholicism seems very bureaucratic to me, where all the rule-keeping could potentially become tedious and take precedence over one’s personal relationship with Christ. For example, no meat on Fridays, can’t miss a Mass or you’ve committed a mortal sin, etc.The Catechism, or Catholic Owners’ manual as I call it, is huge.
- Most Catholics I know (not all) at work and elsewhere are very secular-acting and seem to leave their faith at the door. For example, I know a guy who makes sure to walk around on Ash Wednesday afternoon showing off his ashes to everyone but then cusses up a storm and tells some of the dirtiest jokes in the office the rest of the time.
- I think some Catholics over-emphasize the role of Mary, almost regarding her like she is the 4th person of the Trinity and praying to her as if she has powers that only Jesus has.
- I prefer to baptize children when they reach the age of accountability when they can understand what it is, not as babies, although I can assent to infant baptism and I understand the arguments for it.
- I find the ultra-traditionalist Catholics to be scary and off-putting. It seems like they act like theirs is the only right way to do things, and some don’t even consider Protestants like me to be brothers in Christ. It’s as if their mindset is still in the 1500s in the time of Luther. I am concerned that if these type of people are the majority, I wouldn’t like Catholicism very much and would wind up back where I’m at now, so why leave?
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